My First Youtube Video!

[Mitchell]

might be jumping que

Some one earlier mentioned "liking the humboldt"... Well the humboldt is the WRONG falling cut for that situation. It would be different if you were milling the log... That drop calls for an open face notch, top cut first. No need to go deep from the look of it either.. Fast, easy, accurate, reliable... (once again I sense "my smug and condescending attitude" coming through) Maybe I could word it different or pose it as a question or something, and I call like I see it ... That is just the plain truth of it... Learn from it or ignore it as you will.

Keep up the good work.. stay safe...

I have skipped the posts since this one... Murph I beg to differ, not trying to pick a fight or be a know it all .

The humbolt is a safer undercut; it should always be the prefered cut. The but log will be less likley to skip backwards off the stump. It is more difficult to line up however like anything else... practice. Full wrap saws help as well.

Going with a deeper undercut is generally correct when dealing with a tree that has been wieght reduced; the hing is closer to the center of gravity.

I will read the last few pages of posts now

 

[murphy4trees]

spoken like a true logger

No offense intended back at you...
And your statement is exactly what I AM talking about...
Tell the truth now... you are a logger... You fall trees in the woods, not in backyards..

There is 0% chance of "The but log skipping backwards off the stump" in 98% + of the trees I fall... None .. nadda... zip... Why would they?... nothing to hang up on and get pushed back by... straight falls with no contact of anything before they hit grass...

Another note for all... i think we need to get our definitions straight... the face cut that resembles (2) 45º conventional notches stacked, so that the face is 90º with one cut sloping up and one cut sloping down on equal angles, is not what I call the open face, even though ANSI calls it that in a diagram ..

The open face I AM talking about has a very steep top cut.. maybe 60-75º, and a horizontal (level) floor cut (that is parrallell with the ground). Made with top cut first, which makes it wasier to gun... Since it appears that many here think that the open face refers to two stacked 45º cuts, we have a major communication gap.. Which also harkens back to my original statement that anyone who uses the humboldt to fall trees in backyards on a regular basis lacks training. If you had been properly trained, you would know what an open face notch is.

Also as far as Tim Ard goes... I know he teaches the open face cut... as does arbormaster and Mark Chisholm... That said, he got pretty peeves at TCI magazine after they published the tapered hinge article back in July, 2004, which blasted him for teaching the adjusted gun technique rather than the tapered hinge for falling side leaners.. we hashed that over here at AS pretty well at the time..
see page 8: http://www.tcia.org/PDFs/TCI MAG JULYentiresmall.pdf

Also not sure what you are talking about Dan, ... cutting a humboldt 5' high on that fall... Whatever for?... you think the log dropping 5' off the stump is going to do less lawn damage than using an open face a few inches off the ground? I'd like to see that!... and if the decking is set up right you can minimize damage no matter how you cut it... Pushing that saw up against gravity at shoulder height is no picnic... Why do it?

 

[joesawer]

This is what I am talking about.
Pride and Prejudice
Loggers fire fighters and aborists all want to be the best and "Right". They all take turns criticizing and condemning something different.
There is a lot of miscommunications because different people call the same thing by different names or different things by the same name.

In my experience only the least experienced worst, most poorly trained people make the top cut first on a conventional face. It is much harder to get an accurate gun and is a poor cover for lack of proper training and experience causing mis matched cuts.
I will repeat my observation of Tim Ard. He will continue to be a good example of how not to cut a tree. If you are a raw green beginner, his training would be of benefit. But make no mistake there is a whole world out there that makes him slow, inefficient, and less safe. Do yourself a favor and open your eyes to a whole level above and beyond his very low plateau.

 

[murphy4trees]

let me be clear

Joe,
My point is that the "right" cut for loggers in the woods is not the "right cut for falling spars in backyards.. so I AM not telling a logger that the humboldt is wrong...
open face notch... top cut first... NOT CONVENTIONAL...
I try to keep an open mind and listen to all voices here... Yours however is not working for me... Not sure what you are up to, and I KNOW what I do to put a tree on the ground WORKS... fast, accurate, easy, hard to misjudge.. etc.. your humboldt is none of that!

ps... do you know the cut I AM talking about?... using the gunning line on top of the saw it is easy to get a perfect gun by standing behind the saw and looking over the top gunning line.
your statement "make the top cut first on a conventional face. It is much harder to get an accurate gun".. makes me think you don;t know the cut I AM talking about... See attached photo.. This cut is slightly adjusting the gun on a notch... you can stand right behind the saw and look down the gunning line to exactly where the front of the hinge is aimed..
I'll be OOT for a few days..

 

[Nailsbeats]

I can't believe this guys. It doesn't matter which method you choose as long as you do it right and it works for you. There are many ways to get to the same end.

I know the terms and the fancy talk, but it is to the point of complete uselessness with this petty bickering. You want to be a respected pro, then act courteously to your brother.

 

[pdqdl]

Humbolt. Hmmm.

Beranek says in his book "The Fundamentals of General Tree Work" that it is useful for clearing the tree off the stump and for preserving as much lumber in the log as possible.

I suspect that is why the loggers like it best; it makes more money by preserving as much wood as possible.

Jumping off the stump is usually of little to no value for tree removal. And there are other, better, easier ways to make sure that a log doesn't jump off the stump backwards.

Incidentally, jumping backwards off a stump is something I have never seen. My understanding of physics tells me that is a much bigger problem when you are dealing with a tree that may have a height 50 times it's trunk diameter with a relatively tiny spread or "dripline".

 

[tree MDS]

I can't believe this guys. It doesn't matter which method you choose as long as you do it right and it works for you. There are many ways to get to the same end.

I know the terms and the fancy talk, but it is to the point of complete uselessness with this petty bickering. You want to be a respected pro, then act courteously to your brother.

Well put nails, enough is enough, who cares!

Just cut the tree for cryin out loud!

 

[tree md]

Great Job!

Great job Nails!

I really want a GRCS of my own. I have only seen one used on the job by Treebot when we were working an ice storm together. It is on my list to get this year. The Spiderjack looked really sweet too.

I am not one to criticize much but I feel I would be remiss if I didn't say this: I used to climb unsecured on big trees until I got past the spar and could tie in easily. Back in the 90's I was working with a climber that was doing that and he fell. He only fell about 12 feet but it paralyzed him. He was only 22. From that point on I always set a line in the tree and have someone belay for me until I can get tied in.

As far as one handing, I do it all the time and have never seen a climber who doesn't do it.

Won't get into the notch debate. I know what I use and it works for me. I say if it works for you then that is your prerogative.

Excellent job!

 

[TreeBot]

I have only seen one used on the job by Treebot when we were working an ice storm together.

TreeMD forgot to mention: that was the storm that bought and paid for my GRCS. :rockn:
Thanks again to him and his customers. A climber could not ask for a more gracious welcome than I got when we showed up in Tulsa!

Can you believe this guy put up me, my dog, AND my groundsman?

 

[tree md]

TreeMD forgot to mention: that was the storm that bought and paid for my GRCS. :rockn:
Thanks again to him and his customers. A climber could not ask for a more gracious welcome than I got when we showed up in Tulsa!

Can you believe this guy put up me, my dog, AND my groundsman?

Yeah, and I really miss the dog...

That was lots of fun bot. I love working with other climbers. When you work on your own you can get stagnant in your technique if you don't have others to learn new tricks from. You were a big help during that storm.

I'm just about to leave to go look at a new 1 ton dually. I'll call you if I buy it.

 

[Nailsbeats]

Great job Nails!

I really want a GRCS of my own. I have only seen one used on the job by Treebot when we were working an ice storm together. It is on my list to get this year. The Spiderjack looked really sweet too.

I am not one to criticize much but I feel I would be remiss if I didn't say this: I used to climb unsecured on big trees until I got past the spar and could tie in easily. Back in the 90's I was working with a climber that was doing that and he fell. He only fell about 12 feet but it paralyzed him. He was only 22. From that point on I always set a line in the tree and have someone belay for me until I can get tied in.

As far as one handing, I do it all the time and have never seen a climber who doesn't do it.

Won't get into the notch debate. I know what I use and it works for me. I say if it works for you then that is your prerogative.

Excellent job!

Thanks MD. The GRCS is just another handy tool to have, it isn't cheap, but really opens up options when you need them. We climb everything and never use a crane so it has become our small portable crane if you will. The big difference being that you need a sturdy structure to rig off of with it.

 

[tree md]

Thanks MD. The GRCS is just another handy tool to have, it isn't cheap, but really opens up options when you need them. We climb everything and never use a crane so it has become our small portable crane if you will. The big difference being that you need a sturdy structure to rig off of with it.

That's what I want one for. I usually use a crane when there is heavy rigging to be done over structures. Especially when a crane would be more time/cost efficient. The GRCS would allow me to be more competitive in my pricing as well as allow me to get to trees where the crane can't go. It seems that it would make a climber highly specialized. When I worked with TreeBot we used it in some very versatile situations. We even used it to pull my 2 ton dump out of the mud.

 

[pdqdl]

Since we are on the topic: does anyone have a link to exactly how the winch part of the GRCS is used? I have never seen one in use, except videos at a great distance where the camera is watching the branch, not the GRCS.

It looks like you would need someone to hold the rope, and someone else to turn the crank. That, or pause every couple of feet to get a new grip on the tail of the rope.

It advertises that they are "self-tailing". What exactly does that mean?

I presume that it has planetary gears in the drum?

 

[Nailsbeats]

When you wrap the rope on it stays on until you undo the last wrap to begin lowering. The last wrap in the "jaws" is what secures it. I believe this is what self tailing is referring to.

 

[Wolfking42084]

Is the grcs basically a windlass like on a boat?

 

[Nailsbeats]

Is the grcs basically a windlass like on a boat?

Yup.

 

[nskizwood]

Nice teamwork! Your new freind Bob... he is not a bad guy! Sthil still cutting pretty slow though compared to the 272!! Where di the pics from that huge white go??

 

[Nailsbeats]

Nice teamwork! Your new freind Bob... he is not a bad guy! Sthil still cutting pretty slow though compared to the 272!! Where di the pics from that huge white go??

Nski ya old goat, good to see you finally made it. Took you longer that the 357 does to start, lol.

Search for 40" Hollow White Oak Felling in the picture forum, that's where the goods are. I should have my second youtube vid up in a couple days, you'll be stoked on the opening soundtrack if they let me use it and I don't have to replace it with some crap lobby music they're pushin. Leroy is climbing, it's good stuff.

BTW, I sold the 272, dang good saw, but I gots 3 of dem der 440's to replace it, lol.

 

[nskizwood]

How was that job today? Wife said she saw you with the saw over the shoulder walking like a stud!? Almost got all the wood cut and split that we took out this winter. All in a pile though... will have to wait for the ground to firm up or haul it out the early mornings. Lots of good wood there. Only got the stack left west of the wood to cut/split. Its a mud fest out there! How much you say you got that splitter for from farm and barn??

 

[Nailsbeats]

How was that job today? Wife said she saw you with the saw over the shoulder walking like a stud!? Almost got all the wood cut and split that we took out this winter. All in a pile though... will have to wait for the ground to firm up or haul it out the early mornings. Lots of good wood there. Only got the stack left west of the wood to cut/split. Its a mud fest out there! How much you say you got that splitter for from farm and barn??

Wow, you're up late, I was not expecting that. $1200 or so and F&Shthouse will hook you up. Let me know if you get one, will need a few quick mods.

Yeah, that job was nice, big tree, lotsa wood. I had the 357 and had to snag the 440 for the bigger stuff, that musta been when she saw me out on the street workin it. We powered up on the whole deal in 6hrs with 3 of us. It'll be on Youtube, downloading as we speak.