need some help dropping them where I want them

[Poindexter]

Situation: I want to get about three more cords of rounds in before the spring melt. 4 feet of snow on the ground. Seven utility pole sized spruce in a stand about 60 yards off the hardpacked snow covered logging road. I got about a 97-99% chance of getting all of them out without getting my truck stuck, it would be a $500 towing bill.

I am felling in a state owned forest, public wood cutting area, about 500 acres. I spent about two hours out there on snowshoes yesterday looking at trees. There are a couple birch I can get too, the place I have picked is the only place I can get more than two trees out without having to break a new trail through the snow for every tree.

I got one of the spruce out yesterday. First it took three round trips between the road and the stump on snowshoes for the snow to stop packing under that small amount of pressure. Then i took my snow shoes off and spent the rest of the day packing my trail harder and harder. A couple times carrying a heavy round back to the truck I went though the pack into the snow about mid-thigh deep.

I don't want to break anymore trail than I have to, felling and bucking in snowshoes is a pain in the neck and it burns a LOT of calories.

Problem: I want to drop the remaining trees right beside, but not on my already packed trail. If I get it just right I can toss the rounds about 6-8 feet over the limbs onto the trail and pack them straight out to the truck.

I am OK at putting trees where I want them, certainly not perfect and I won't even claim to be pretty good. I got the one widowmaker down and out yesterday, everything left is pretty straight and pretty healthy.

I have looked at wedges some, but I want to carry the fewest number of tools possible into the woods so I can bring more rounds back out on every trip. Plus I am a bit worried about losing them, and it looks like I would also need a hammer, just not the elegant solution I am looking for.

I am thinking about leaving my cant hook at home and carrying something like this instead, your commentary is invited:

http://www.sherrilltree.com/Combo-Felling-Bar-482?gclid=CKGhnaej47wCFY6RfgodCVgAJw#.UwpzRPldU8Q

 

[mdavlee]

I like wedges for putting trees where I want them. I've not trued a lever like that.

 

[nk14zp]

I'd use wedges.

 

[treeslayer2003]

I'd use wedges.

+1

 

[CRESTLINE]

I don't use wedges, I use a felling jack. I made one out of a cargo jack that truckers use to secure the loads in the trailers. I cut off the rubber padded feet on both ends then made a base out off 2" angle iron to sit on the ground. It is 6" long with 3 v-notches cut into the side touching the ground for non-slip grip. I used a piece of 2" X 1/4" X 6" steel for the top end. I cut 2 v-notches in it and then ground a 45 degree angle on the top to sharpen the points so that it would dig into the tree for a good grip. Just place on the ground at about a 45 degree angle to the tree, operate the jack handle a couple of times to tighten it. Cut your notch just as you would to fell any tree then start your felling cut. When you are almost to the point of the tree falling, add more tension (as you go) until the tree falls. Works great.

 

[slowp]

For getting the wood out, how about using a sled? I've used one of those cheap plastic ones.

 

[muddstopper]

Hard to instruct tree falling without being on sight and actually seeing the trees first. Assuming the trees are straight and without much lean, I would cut a good lead notch in the direction I wanted the wood to fall. I would go slow with the back cut, cutting until the tree just starts to lean. One can work the back cut a little more on one side or the other according to which way the tree wants to fall and use wedges to get it going in the right direction. Watching the tree as it starts to lean/fall, you can adjust your cut angle to help it go in the proper direction, as long as you go slow, you can usually pull the tree around, but a fast cut will surely drop it where it wants to go and not where you want it to go.

 

[Gologit]

I don't use wedges, I use a felling jack. I made one out of a cargo jack that truckers use to secure the loads in the trailers. I cut off the rubber padded feet on both ends then made a base out off 2" angle iron to sit on the ground. It is 6" long with 3 v-notches cut into the side touching the ground for non-slip grip. I used a piece of 2" X 1/4" X 6" steel for the top end. I cut 2 v-notches in it and then ground a 45 degree angle on the top to sharpen the points so that it would dig into the tree for a good grip. Just place on the ground at about a 45 degree angle to the tree, operate the jack handle a couple of times to tighten it. Cut your notch just as you would to fell any tree then start your felling cut. When you are almost to the point of the tree falling, add more tension (as you go) until the tree falls. Works great.

How big of a tree have you cut using that ?

 

[northmanlogging]

Use wedges, for the size timber I think you're talking about 2-3 8" wedges wouldn't weight more then a pound, add an axe or big hammer and your done.

As far as directionally falling them right where you want them... well that gets a bit trickier, normally I would say fall it with the lean, but now your trying to stay in a "lead" so, it takes a few more steps.

First brush it out, have two escape paths.

Second size up the tree, determine its lean, any hangers in it, rotten spots etc.

Third take a look at where you plan to fall it, for firewood its not a big deal but in lumber you don't want any breakage so you have to avoid stumps, rock, and other trees, Also look to see if any moron has wandered on by to have a look at the tree fellin duder...

Fourth, make your gun cut, this cut is the first cut of your face cut, it determines where you want the tree to go, always gun/aim where you intend to fall the tree, make this cut roughly 1/3 the diameter of the tree, more or less depending on its lean and how much lean, and how much room you have to stick wedges in.

Fifth, make the slope side of your face cut, top, bottom, don't matter to me. Take your time and try to make it match your gun cut. DO NOT CUT PAST THE ORIGINAL GUN CUT, stop and look, if your too low, chunk it out, better to have a block face then a dutched face.

Sixth, check the face, stop and look at it make sure its clean and nothing in the way, even little chunks of duff can alter the direction of the fall. Clean it out as needed.

Seventh, look up...

Eighth, start your back cut. stick a wedge in as soon as there is room, you may not even need it but its there if you do. If and more likely when the tree sits back you don't have to panic and try to remove your saw, just tap the wedge a few times.

Ninth LOOK UP

Tenth, continue with back cut being sure to check your progress with the off side, you don't want to cut the tree completely off, you want a bit of wood all the way across, this is your hold wood or hinge wood depending on where you might be from, this wood also keeps the tree from coming over backwards in a funny wind, and it acts like a hinge to direct the path of the trees decent (in other words more important than most realize).

Eleventh, keep looking up during the back cut, but also keep an eye on where the saw bar is, at some point the top will sway to one side, hopefully in the direction you intended it to go. If you get the point where you don't want to cut anymore off, then you will need to pound on them wedges, eventually it will go. Keep looking up though, once that tree goes you have two options stay with it and try to manipulate the hold wood to help steer the tree, or Run like a little girl, I suggest you run like a little girl... I do...

This is by no means a fallers guide to every tree ever, its the basics and nothing more. If you can avoid any back leaners, especially in the smallish timber I believe you are talking about, there just isn't any room to wedge them over by conventional means, the unconventional means are difficult to explain, one involves making the back cut first... all of these are a little advanced and should probably be shown in person and not over the interwebb.

As far as jacking trees go... Jacks are heavy, but they work very well in big timber, what duder above was talking about lost me, just buy a feakin 20 ton bottle jack from Home Gyppo add a plate to the top and be done with it, If you do plan on jacking them over, Make damn sure you back that jack up with wedges, jack a little, wedge a little, jacks fail, and fail badly, wedges may break off but they at least hold the tree up even with broken off stobbs, a jack fails it collapses, tree goes wrong way and kills five people, just sayin.

 

[CRESTLINE]

How big of a tree have you cut using that ?

Back in the summer, we cut a leaning pine using the jack. I would estimate it was 18-20" and about 60' tall. Came down where we wanted it. Have only had to use it a couple of times but it worked great every time. If you look at the link in Poindexter's post you will see a jack similar to the one I made. It uses an internal winch system instead of the "bumper jack" mechanism I used but it does the same thing. It also cost $1345.95.

 

[Gologit]

Back in the summer, we cut a leaning pine using the jack. I would estimate it was 18-20" and about 60' tall. Came down where we wanted it. Have only had to use it a couple of times but it worked great every time. If you look at the link in Poindexter's post you will see a jack similar to the one I made. It uses an internal winch system instead of the "bumper jack" mechanism I used but it does the same thing. It also cost $1345.95.

Thanks. I think I'll stick with wedges and an occasional assist from a Silvey jack.

 

[Nuzzy]

Use wedges, for the size timber I think you're talking about 2-3 8" wedges wouldn't weight more then a pound, add an axe or big hammer and your done.

As far as directionally falling them right where you want them... well that gets a bit trickier, normally I would say fall it with the lean, but now your trying to stay in a "lead" so, it takes a few more steps.

First brush it out, have two escape paths.

Second size up the tree, determine its lean, any hangers in it, rotten spots etc.

Third take a look at where you plan to fall it, for firewood its not a big deal but in lumber you don't want any breakage so you have to avoid stumps, rock, and other trees, Also look to see if any moron has wandered on by to have a look at the tree fellin duder...

Fourth, make your gun cut, this cut is the first cut of your face cut, it determines where you want the tree to go, always gun/aim where you intend to fall the tree, make this cut roughly 1/3 the diameter of the tree, more or less depending on its lean and how much lean, and how much room you have to stick wedges in.

Fifth, make the slope side of your face cut, top, bottom, don't matter to me. Take your time and try to make it match your gun cut. DO NOT CUT PAST THE ORIGINAL GUN CUT, stop and look, if your too low, chunk it out, better to have a block face then a dutched face.

Sixth, check the face, stop and look at it make sure its clean and nothing in the way, even little chunks of duff can alter the direction of the fall. Clean it out as needed.

Seventh, look up...

Eighth, start your back cut. stick a wedge in as soon as there is room, you may not even need it but its there if you do. If and more likely when the tree sits back you don't have to panic and try to remove your saw, just tap the wedge a few times.

Ninth LOOK UP

Tenth, continue with back cut being sure to check your progress with the off side, you don't want to cut the tree completely off, you want a bit of wood all the way across, this is your hold wood or hinge wood depending on where you might be from, this wood also keeps the tree from coming over backwards in a funny wind, and it acts like a hinge to direct the path of the trees decent (in other words more important than most realize).

Eleventh, keep looking up during the back cut, but also keep an eye on where the saw bar is, at some point the top will sway to one side, hopefully in the direction you intended it to go. If you get the point where you don't want to cut anymore off, then you will need to pound on them wedges, eventually it will go. Keep looking up though, once that tree goes you have two options stay with it and try to manipulate the hold wood to help steer the tree, or Run like a little girl, I suggest you run like a little girl... I do...

This is by no means a fallers guide to every tree ever, its the basics and nothing more. If you can avoid any back leaners, especially in the smallish timber I believe you are talking about, there just isn't any room to wedge them over by conventional means, the unconventional means are difficult to explain, one involves making the back cut first... all of these are a little advanced and should probably be shown in person and not over the interwebb.

As far as jacking trees go... Jacks are heavy, but they work very well in big timber, what duder above was talking about lost me, just buy a feakin 20 ton bottle jack from Home Gyppo add a plate to the top and be done with it, If you do plan on jacking them over, Make damn sure you back that jack up with wedges, jack a little, wedge a little, jacks fail, and fail badly, wedges may break off but they at least hold the tree up even with broken off stobbs, a jack fails it collapses, tree goes wrong way and kills five people, just sayin.

Brilliant post. Well played.

 

[Poindexter]

Thank you all, especially northman. I brought home about seven cords from standing timber last summer, using technique straight off the Husqvarna DVD owners manual and as clearly explicated by northman directly above.

Yes, smaller trees. The spruce I am talking about run about 14" in diameter just above the stump burl, I am running a 16" saw. In the summer in the middle of nowhere it doesn't "really" matter which way a tree falls for me as long as I don't hang it up in another one, I just maybe have to carry the rounds a bit further to the truck. Now it's showtime.

I have thought about getting a sled, but this will be - knock wood- the last time I have to cut firewood in the snow. Once I get in the other three cords I need for this coming winter, then over this summer that's about to start (after the melt, after the mud) I am going to bring in all the rounds I could possible need for next next winter and split those over this coming winter.... I hope.

I am going to make a plumb bob out of some orange string a nut or bolt or heavy washer or something. Can't hurt and won't weigh much.

I will look around town for a lever, I know a couple places have wedges. I am itching to try a lever, in the hands of however talented/ experienced the saw operators are in the Husqvarna DVD the lever looks more like the tool for me.

 

[Poindexter]

This youtube video is available on DVD from my local dealer. The cut and lever use I am referring to starts around 2:00 and is finished at 4:28.

Working from advice I read here many years ago I bought a Husky instead of a Stihl because local to me at the time were two husky service shops, but only one Stihl service shop. Stihl makes a great saw, I look forward to owning one someday.

 

[northmanlogging]

You can also use an axe handle or something similar, hold it vertical to next to the tree and sight up it, or make it match the trees lean, I already carry an axe everywhere so a plumb bob is one more thing to loose, that and I have trouble holding one still...

The thing with the lever is its not really very useful for anything else, where as an axe can chop and pound wedges. Wedges not real dual purpose either, but they are great for their one purpose, I use em while bucking as well so even the 4-5 I drag around are more then worth it. Not to mention the lever will be useless in bigger wood, and its steel... steel and chains not a real happy mix...

But hey its your money.

 

[Nuzzy]

The cut and lever use I am referring to starts around 2:00 and is finished at 4:28.

Use plastic wedges. They'll do the same thing, can be used for bucking as well, won't dull your chain if hit, and are cheaply replaceable.

 

[Poindexter]

northman, I owe you the beverage of your choice if we ever meet in person. Its like you're inside my head reading my thoughts and playing a perfect devil's advocate.

I keep an axe in the truck. I only got my saw stuck once last summer, but I had the axe in the truck so I didn't waste the trip. Plumb bob I can fit in my pocket.

I get that wedges can be used on bigger trees that levers can't, but I have to load my rounds in my truck by hand and bring them home, anything over about 18" in diameter with the sap up is just heavier rounds than I want to lift.

I was going to put a lever tip on the empty end of my cant hook handle, who knows what I will find in stock locally. I agree that having both a lever and a cant hook on two different handles is inefficient.

I have never wanted a wedge for bucking before. Maybe I'll pick up a wedge while I am lever shopping to see if it comes in handy one day.

"steel and chains is not a real happy mix" I got no come back for.

 

[Poindexter]

Use plastic wedges. They'll do the same thing, can be used for bucking as well, won't dull your chain if hit, and are cheaply replaceable.

I just don't get using a wedge for bucking. No offense, I just haven't needed one. I do, to be fair, try to stick to logs with butt ends under 16" or so in diameter. Those I can buck maybe 2/3 of the way through, rotate with a cant hook and finish. So far.

 

[Poindexter]

Excuse me, I see the long handled log turner tool of mine is a Peavey and not a cant hook. sorry.

 

[Olesenofalaska]

Hey Poindexter, I was cutting today up Murphy Dome road on a friends property for a driveway. I found that the harder plastic wedges are working well in the birch and spruce right now. I had to use two at a time as the frozen wood was making single wedges bounce back out of the cut. If I place the wedges side by side in the back cut and tap them in without swinging hard they jacked the trees over nicely. PM me if you have time this week to go cut and I may be able to help you out. We could have the first annual Fairbanks Alaska GTG.