Need some input on a hydraulic cylinder I found

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dave_dj1

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I have a chance to pick up a brand new 6" x 36" stroke with about a 2-2.5" shaft for scrap price, .20 per pound. I'm guessing it weighs around 240 lbs so for about 48 bucks I can have the start of my processor. It's a welded tee cylinder like this one: Surplus Center - 6X36X3 PMC-22036 DA HYD CYL
Do you think it will be too big? Not so much the length but overall?
I probably won't be starting the processor until next winter but I know I can't find another ram for that cheap.
thanks,
dave

Just FYI, on my processor, my idea is a min of 30 hp and possibly more depending on what I scavenge for power plant. It will be good up to about 16"-18" diameter wood. Live deck etc. etc.
 
I'm pretty sure it's rebuildable. I'm thinking I'm going to need two pumps at minimum, maybe three. I'm shooting for 28 gpm single stage pump for splitting. Maybe I'll have to up my hp to 50 ish. LOL
I can't imagine someone tossing this thing out to the scrap yard.
 
Based on Surplus Center's price, I'd say you got a dayum good deal. :msp_thumbup:
 
I'm pretty sure it's rebuildable. I'm thinking I'm going to need two pumps at minimum, maybe three. I'm shooting for 28 gpm single stage pump for splitting. Maybe I'll have to up my hp to 50 ish. LOL
I can't imagine someone tossing this thing out to the scrap yard.

I would say that someplace betwen the levels of most and all, the still functioning things at scrap yards have not been tossed out. They wind up at the scrap yards because those are the best places to fence purloined anything metallic out there and get some quick cash.
 
the only issue I see is...

if it is 3/4" ports, it is gonna be a tad slow. You are trying to shuffle a bathtub of oil in/out of that thing. However, it would split quite simply Anything.
 
I would say that someplace betwen the levels of most and all, the still functioning things at scrap yards have not been tossed out. They wind up at the scrap yards because those are the best places to fence purloined anything metallic out there and get some quick cash.

That was my thought also! Oh well, I'll grab it this week.
 
frankensplitter

I have a chance to pick up a brand new 6" x 36" stroke with about a 2-2.5" shaft for scrap price, .20 per pound. I'm guessing it weighs around 240 lbs so for about 48 bucks I can have the start of my processor. It's a welded tee cylinder like this one: Surplus Center - 6X36X3 PMC-22036 DA HYD CYL
Do you think it will be too big? Not so much the length but overall?
I probably won't be starting the processor until next winter but I know I can't find another ram for that cheap.
thanks,
dave

Just FYI, on my processor, my idea is a min of 30 hp and possibly more depending on what I scavenge for power plant. It will be good up to about 16"-18" diameter wood. Live deck etc. etc.



About your frankensplitter;


The port size can be reduced BUT you still have to move three gallons of oil at every advance and slightly less oil on the retract stroke. and if you install smaller hoses and fittings in the cylinder the cylinder will move very slowly in either direction at full throttle and you will not gain anything

A number twelve fitting is 3/4" inside diameter. you have to have an open center pump that will pump 25 to 30 gallons per minute to do this just for the splitting ram because of the size of the cylinder bore.

SO you have to do a lot of work before you even start this as you are going to need a very large gas engine to power just the pump for the ram and oil volume to do this.


Save your money and buy a commercial splitter or a used chomper if you want to have something that is ready to work buy a used chomper, there are a couple of them on the market for sale now.
 
So would it be safe to plan a 28 gpm just for the ram? If I can find a single stage 25? Or a two stage? What kind of HP are you talking? Maybe I would be better off sticking with a 4" ram?
Just to be clear here, I have absolutely no use for a processor, I just think it will be a fun project. We could process my brothers wood for his OWB though.
thanks,
dave
 
I don't think you you'd be too big but are those welded cylinders rebuild-able?

What size pump you gonna run with the 30 hp?

I have never seen a cylinder that wasn't rebuild-able. Most welded cylinders are rebuilt by taking the fitting off the back port and then sliding a sir clip back into a groove. This allows the ram to be pulled out of the cylinder.
 
frankensplitter

So would it be safe to plan a 28 gpm just for the ram? If I can find a single stage 25? Or a two stage? What kind of HP are you talking? Maybe I would be better off sticking with a 4" ram?
Just to be clear here, I have absolutely no use for a processor, I just think it will be a fun project. We could process my brothers wood for his OWB though.
thanks,
dave


A 35 horsepower or greater engine size is what you would need for this with a standard single stage gear pump or a single cartridge vane pump which is even better than a gear pump.


A four inch ram will be much better for you to work with if you still wish to do this.


If you want a fun boring project fill your brothers OWB half full with firebrick and watch how much money and wood it saves him as you are increasing the thermal mass available to reatin heat and release heat back into the combustion chamber-I DID THIS and I wish I had done it 30 years ago!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!






About your frankensplitter;

FUN projects cost money; A fun project would be combine the use of a small bandsaw mill and a chomper BUT not interfere with intake chute of the chomper by simply slicing the oversize logs and then having a live deck to feed the slabs to the chute to be winched into the chompers drag chute.


If you want twenty eight gallons per minute you have to have a tank that will carry and store more than 28 gallons per minute(most of 40 gallons of oil for a buffer) because of the surge of oil returning on the return stroke and that is a lot of money because you need a baffled tank with a top mounted flooded suction filter for the pump.

IF you want a pump look at a 12 gallon per minute vane pump for what you want to do with a 4 inch cylinder rather than what you are intent on buying.


Do not waste your money especially since its your money and try to reinvent the wheel.

IF you want simple, bid on or buy one of the small used chompers that is for sale and buy a small band mill to slice the oversize logs to a 14 by 14 size beam to feed the chomper.
 
A 35 horsepower or greater engine size is what you would need for this with a standard single stage gear pump or a single cartridge vane pump which is even better than a gear pump.


A four inch ram will be much better for you to work with if you still wish to do this.


If you want a fun boring project fill your brothers OWB half full with firebrick and watch how much money and wood it saves him as you are increasing the thermal mass available to reatin heat and release heat back into the combustion chamber-I DID THIS and I wish I had done it 30 years ago!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!






About your frankensplitter;

FUN projects cost money; A fun project would be combine the use of a small bandsaw mill and a chomper BUT not interfere with intake chute of the chomper by simply slicing the oversize logs and then having a live deck to feed the slabs to the chute to be winched into the chompers drag chute.


If you want twenty eight gallons per minute you have to have a tank that will carry and store more than 28 gallons per minute(most of 40 gallons of oil for a buffer) because of the surge of oil returning on the return stroke and that is a lot of money because you need a baffled tank with a top mounted flooded suction filter for the pump.

IF you want a pump look at a 12 gallon per minute vane pump for what you want to do with a 4 inch cylinder rather than what you are intent on buying.


Do not waste your money especially since its your money and try to reinvent the wheel.

IF you want simple, bid on or buy one of the small used chompers that is for sale and buy a small band mill to slice the oversize logs to a 14 by 14 size beam to feed the chomper.

do you happen to work for chomper??
and he's not re-inventing the wheel with this. the chomper isnt the only processor out there!
i would say look for a 3 cylinder diesel something around 40-50 hp
put a 2 section pump pump on it one for the splitting ram, and one for everything else

we made one
had a JD diesel out of a ingersoll rand compressor that the compressor was junk in.
had a 4 spool valve that ran the log chute, log clamp, cutting bar (up/down) and adjustable 6 way wedge.
the splitting ram ran off a solinoid valve controlled with a foot switch
and the cutting bar was ran off a hydraulic motor, controlled with a solinoid valve which was controlled with a proximity switch that when the bar moved down to make a cut it would turn on, and when the bar went all the way back up it would shut off.

really no need for a live deck unless your doing production, ours had just 3 6x6 beams which the logs went on then we would roll them into the chute.
we later replaced that with a live deck because we had one, this processor is a perminate unit in a 3 sided building (one side open to load logs onto the deck), has a sawdust blower which gets blown into a sawdust bin, splits come out of the 6 way through a chute then through a bar grate chute, then drop onto the conveyor, and into the dumptruck

your processor is in no way re-inventing the wheel, even if it was, how do you think the processors that are currently on the maket or ANYTHING for that matter came about??
 
frankensplitter

do you happen to work for chomper??
and he's not re-inventing the wheel with this. the chomper isnt the only processor out there!
i would say look for a 3 cylinder diesel something around 40-50 hp
put a 2 section pump pump on it one for the splitting ram, and one for everything else

we made one
had a JD diesel out of a ingersoll rand compressor that the compressor was junk in.
had a 4 spool valve that ran the log chute, log clamp, cutting bar (up/down) and adjustable 6 way wedge.
the splitting ram ran off a solinoid valve controlled with a foot switch
and the cutting bar was ran off a hydraulic motor, controlled with a solinoid valve which was controlled with a proximity switch that when the bar moved down to make a cut it would turn on, and when the bar went all the way back up it would shut off.

really no need for a live deck unless your doing production, ours had just 3 6x6 beams which the logs went on then we would roll them into the chute.
we later replaced that with a live deck because we had one, this processor is a perminate unit in a 3 sided building (one side open to load logs onto the deck), has a sawdust blower which gets blown into a sawdust bin, splits come out of the 6 way through a chute then through a bar grate chute, then drop onto the conveyor, and into the dumptruck

your processor is in no way re-inventing the wheel, even if it was, how do you think the processors that are currently on the maket or ANYTHING for that matter came about??



=====================================================================================================================================================================================================================


It is referred to as "Patent Law" in the United States Code.

"Patent Infringement" occurs when a patented idea is copied by a
person or persons.

I have had two persons steal my patent for their use by the way.


NO I do not have any affiliation with the Rainier Hydraulics Company.

When we refer to "reinventing the wheel" it means all the engineering work
and fabrication is done by other manufacturers and for most its waste of time
and money as the rngineering and design has already been done.

You cannot get any simpler than a chomper firewood processor.


He also said it was not a serious idea on his part as well anyway and he is not
familiar with fluid power design apparently.
 
=====================================================================================================================================================================================================================


It is referred to as "Patent Law" in the United States Code.

"Patent Infringement" occurs when a patented idea is copied by a
person or persons.

I have had two persons steal my patent for their use by the way.


NO I do not have any affiliation with the Rainier Hydraulics Company.

When we refer to "reinventing the wheel" it means all the engineering work
and fabrication is done by other manufacturers and for most its waste of time
and money as the rngineering and design has already been done.

You cannot get any simpler than a chomper firewood processor.


He also said it was not a serious idea on his part as well anyway and he is not
familiar with fluid power design apparently.

you say "copied"
meaing exactly the same
i highly doubt that this processor or any "homemade" processor is exactly the same as a patented one.
just because something is patented doesnt mean theyre the ones that came up with the design. it could be a copy of something that isnt patented.
and patent law would only come into play if someone were to manufacture and market something

He actually said he had no use for a processor, but it would be a fun project.
who cares if it costs a lot of money, its his money, his time, if he thinks its fun, and wants to do it, who cares!
and alot of people are not familiar with hydraulics, theres a reason why theres hydraulic shops, and engineers.
 
Ok guys, I appreciate all the input and yes, I have no real knowledge of hydraulics but I do like to learn new things. That's one of the great things about the internet, there are people looking for help and people willing to help. I have been on both sides and I think it's great.

On to the news of the day! It turns out it is NOT a 6" bore cylinder but I'm guessing a 4.5-5" bore. and it looks to be 30" stroke. For scrap prices I just couldn't let it lay there in the dirt. It looks just like this one from Surplus center: Surplus Center - 5X30X2.5 PMC-21030 DA HYD CYL It looks to me like it's never been used, factory plugs still in place, no grease in the eyes and no signs of wear.

Here is my take for the day, I took back 50 bucks worth of scrap steel and tin and spent 44 bucks on this haul.
SDC10879_zps956863b0.jpg

the angle iron is 2" x 2" x 1/4" and they are all 89" long
SDC10880_zps0b7cf5d9.jpg

Got to use my latest toy.
SDC10881_zps1f7c22bd.jpg

SDC10882_zps7fa2df25.jpg
 
Ok guys, I appreciate all the input and yes, I have no real knowledge of hydraulics but I do like to learn new things. That's one of the great things about the internet, there are people looking for help and people willing to help. I have been on both sides and I think it's great.

On to the news of the day! It turns out it is NOT a 6" bore cylinder but I'm guessing a 4.5-5" bore. and it looks to be 30" stroke. For scrap prices I just couldn't let it lay there in the dirt. It looks just like this one from Surplus center: Surplus Center - 5X30X2.5 PMC-21030 DA HYD CYL It looks to me like it's never been used, factory plugs still in place, no grease in the eyes and no signs of wear.

Here is my take for the day, I took back 50 bucks worth of scrap steel and tin and spent 44 bucks on this haul.
SDC10879_zps956863b0.jpg

the angle iron is 2" x 2" x 1/4" and they are all 89" long
SDC10880_zps0b7cf5d9.jpg

Got to use my latest toy.
SDC10881_zps1f7c22bd.jpg

SDC10882_zps7fa2df25.jpg

yup id say its a prince 5 inch just like the one surplus has,
i have the same one but in a 24 inch stroke.
if you bought it new from surplus center, it would probably be all scratched like that one haha , they sent me mine in just a cardboard box, who knows how many times it fell out, they did the same on a 2.5 x 18 cylinder i bought, they really need to start putting them in crates after a certain weight. 120 lb cylinder vs. light weight carrboard box isnt very good:msp_thumbdn:
 

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