New At It in My Old Age ?
- Thread starter Gregory Nash
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beastmaster
Addicted to ArboristSite
:agree2::notrolls2:
Funny Smell
So,
Funny smell: What do you mean? Do you doubt my story? Which part?
Or is it because of my west coast comment? A friend visiting San Fransisco saw a billboard that advertised Asheville NC. There is a connection!
So,
Funny smell: What do you mean? Do you doubt my story? Which part?
Or is it because of my west coast comment? A friend visiting San Fransisco saw a billboard that advertised Asheville NC. There is a connection!
Calling Troll
OK,
I can see how my lament about what has happened to my home town could be considered an indictment of anyone living on the west coast. That was not my intent, was just illuminating a negative sub-culture that exists and what it has done to Asheville.
This was inappropiate, and if I offended anyone I apologize. Most of my original post was about arborism and to highlight only the last sentence to justify calling me a troll is just not fair.
I was asking for advice in selecting a belt for climbing trees. There seems to be a lot of linesman belts on ebay, and I would like to know how to select something that will do the job. I can't afford the most trendy equipment, but I do have a need to get the job done. What characteristics do I look for? What do I avoid?
A side note: I have dropped about 20 pines so far this year, and left them cut up on the ground so it was easier to saw the next group. I noticed that it only took about 3 weeks before I began to hear the chomping of termites.
-Thanks
OK,
I can see how my lament about what has happened to my home town could be considered an indictment of anyone living on the west coast. That was not my intent, was just illuminating a negative sub-culture that exists and what it has done to Asheville.
This was inappropiate, and if I offended anyone I apologize. Most of my original post was about arborism and to highlight only the last sentence to justify calling me a troll is just not fair.
I was asking for advice in selecting a belt for climbing trees. There seems to be a lot of linesman belts on ebay, and I would like to know how to select something that will do the job. I can't afford the most trendy equipment, but I do have a need to get the job done. What characteristics do I look for? What do I avoid?
A side note: I have dropped about 20 pines so far this year, and left them cut up on the ground so it was easier to saw the next group. I noticed that it only took about 3 weeks before I began to hear the chomping of termites.
-Thanks
You want a 'saddle', not a belt.
Arborism? Is that a condition?
Jeff
Arborism? Is that a condition?
Jeff
Thanks! I will focus on that. BTW, is this also suitable for rock climbing? What is the difference between the arborist gear and rock climbing gear?
I am into arborism because I recognize the value of some trees and the threat of others. Like I am saving and moving the little cedars I find to become a hedge. I am killing all the gum trees I can along with the pines.
The scariest tree I have felled yet was a massive 70'+ gum that was growing less than 2' from my elderly neighbors house. It was dumping gumballs so deep on her porch that she couldn't open her back door. It was growing in between the AC and the porch, and I was afraid it would take out one or the other. Was at it all day to cut it up. Then split it into firewood over the next week (by maul). Took some of the wood camping and noticed it had an interesting aroma when burned.
chad556
ArboristSite Operative
For and unemployed budget: Get one of these Buckingham Economy Saddles It won't be comfy or ergonomic but it will get the job done and keep you safe. Unless you are climbing a utility pole a linemans belt wont do and a rock climbing harness wouldnt work because it has no side D-ring attachment points for your saftey lanyard.
Speaking of lanyards, either get two, or even better, get one and also get a climbing line so you will have a quick escape if anything serious happens in the tree. When running your saw up in the tree you always want to have two separate ropes securing you to the tree, that way if you accidently lose control of your saw and cut one you will still have a good chance of living another 42 years :msp_tongue:
Add some PPE, common sense, and some form of instruction and you will do ok. It wont be cheap to get all gear. Assuming you have the saws, basic PPE and climbing spurs i would say another 300 would get you safely outfitted with a saddle and some ropes and connectors . You can cut corners but you would be significantly decreasing your chances of survival. I would highly recommend going with gear that is made for treework, rock climbing gear would probably work but if it were me I would invest an extra $20 for the good stuff (you can always sell it again on ebay).
Also I think you mean "interest in arboriculture", not arborism lol
was yer saw dull and yer maul sharp?
Mauling Wood
The saw was just too much time for a meager split. Some pieces would split with one wack. Talked a buddy into helping me. We took turns backing up each other, sinking the maul, then driving it with a 10lb sledge. Worked pretty good. Sometimes though all we could do is thump the wood, then I used a wedge with the sledge to start the split. That gum tree was some tough stringy stuff!
The saw was just too much time for a meager split. Some pieces would split with one wack. Talked a buddy into helping me. We took turns backing up each other, sinking the maul, then driving it with a 10lb sledge. Worked pretty good. Sometimes though all we could do is thump the wood, then I used a wedge with the sledge to start the split. That gum tree was some tough stringy stuff!
Woodmiser- If you decide to climb, make sure your friend is there with you in case he has to call 911 should anything happen.
beastmaster
Addicted to ArboristSite
Woodmiser, if your not," Trolling" I am sorry, but your story is so classic of what is happening to this industry it seems contrived. It is not so much age but the motivation why so many,"tree Lovers", all of a sudden want to change professions. If things were well with in your own chosen line of work you wouldn't want to come to our "chosen line of work, further weakening an already stressed industy.
Its nothen personal but if all of a sudden you couldn't get a job doing what you were doing because all the tree people were moving to
your occupation, lowing the skill level, lowing the pay scale, etc. you might be a little touchy your self. Best of luck to you. Beastmaster ( I'm still not 100% convinced.)
Its nothen personal but if all of a sudden you couldn't get a job doing what you were doing because all the tree people were moving to
your occupation, lowing the skill level, lowing the pay scale, etc. you might be a little touchy your self. Best of luck to you. Beastmaster ( I'm still not 100% convinced.)
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Dying Alone
LOL! Yes, I do plan to have somebody around. You may find it difficult to believe, but I am really not too much of a idiot. I am painfully cautious about things I am new at. I have a buddy down the street who generally works for beer, so as long as I ration his intake so he can still dial the phone, I have a safety plan of sorts
Just scored a weaver saddle on ebay, now I need to get some lines and lanyard. Also need to order that tree companion book. I should be able to learn enough by this fall to climb and bomb.
We dropped 5 pines today, then we came inside and did some JD shots and cooled off. It was 101 degrees today! (I don't drink until after the saw stops...)
Cheers!
LOL! Yes, I do plan to have somebody around. You may find it difficult to believe, but I am really not too much of a idiot. I am painfully cautious about things I am new at. I have a buddy down the street who generally works for beer, so as long as I ration his intake so he can still dial the phone, I have a safety plan of sorts
Just scored a weaver saddle on ebay, now I need to get some lines and lanyard. Also need to order that tree companion book. I should be able to learn enough by this fall to climb and bomb.
We dropped 5 pines today, then we came inside and did some JD shots and cooled off. It was 101 degrees today! (I don't drink until after the saw stops...)
Cheers!
Competition
Don't worry, I am NOT going to be an professional arborist. I am only involved now because I need to do something useful with my free time to improve my property. I also want to feel safer without these tall pines full of bugs just waiting for one good storm to crash through my house!
I have a lot more respect for you pros than you know. I have watched guys take down trees before and always wondered what drives men like that. I'm a bit chicken when it comes to risk, but when the pressure mounts and there is no other way to get it done, I will try it.
Cheers!
Don't worry, I am NOT going to be an professional arborist. I am only involved now because I need to do something useful with my free time to improve my property. I also want to feel safer without these tall pines full of bugs just waiting for one good storm to crash through my house!
I have a lot more respect for you pros than you know. I have watched guys take down trees before and always wondered what drives men like that. I'm a bit chicken when it comes to risk, but when the pressure mounts and there is no other way to get it done, I will try it.
Cheers!
OK, to the OP, Gregory Nash. My Dad climbed well into his 60's, even though he owned the co and had steady work year round. He said he did it, "just to stay in shape", and could run up a dang tree like a squirl. When he died at 81 with prostrate cancer he still had biceps the size of grapefruits. I'm 55 and got out of the work as a primary source of income years ago. My body was getting destroyed. I took down a little Maple a couple weeks ago for a friend, and using hooks is murder on my left knee. It hurts to jab them in, and when I pull the left one out, I can feel my knee separating. My body didn't take the pounding the same as my Dad's did.
Most of the climbers I know are in their late fifties and sixties. You're still plenty young to do the work, but the learning years are probably the most demanding.
To woodmiser, I had to go back and check what you said because I was getting confused. In your first post you said you were "thinking about a tree business", then in one of your last posts you said "you were just clearing around your house for something to do till work comes back." What I think all of these good folks are trying to say, in a very polite way is: if you want to do this for a few bucks to get by on, you are one of the most dangerous and unwanted people in arborculture. You said you are getting real good at winching trees over. Winching trees over can be one of the most deadly ways to fell a tree for an ammature. If you put an unjudgably mechanical advantage on the trunk, make your front notch, the second your bar touches the back of the tree it can explode in a barber chair and litterally rip your body in half. If you haven't put years in the work how can you judge all of the different woods and their reaction to stress? In Md you have to have a 4 year degree to get a license. If you don't have years around the business how do you know how to bid a job. You're gonna lowball a job so far just to get it, that you're hurting people in the business because they love it. Then it's inevatable that you're gonna have an accident, because every body knows that "ACCIDENTS JUST HAPPEN". Then the homeowners insurance is gonna have to pay for the damage, because you don't have insurance, because you don't have the knowledge to get licensed, so you can get insurance. Driving everyone elses insurance rates up. This subject, and the way you have been stating your point, drives me and most real tree guys nuts. That's why they called you a troll. If they are right, maybe I fed you enough to make you happy.
If I'm wrong, sorry for being rude, Joe.
Most of the climbers I know are in their late fifties and sixties. You're still plenty young to do the work, but the learning years are probably the most demanding.
To woodmiser, I had to go back and check what you said because I was getting confused. In your first post you said you were "thinking about a tree business", then in one of your last posts you said "you were just clearing around your house for something to do till work comes back." What I think all of these good folks are trying to say, in a very polite way is: if you want to do this for a few bucks to get by on, you are one of the most dangerous and unwanted people in arborculture. You said you are getting real good at winching trees over. Winching trees over can be one of the most deadly ways to fell a tree for an ammature. If you put an unjudgably mechanical advantage on the trunk, make your front notch, the second your bar touches the back of the tree it can explode in a barber chair and litterally rip your body in half. If you haven't put years in the work how can you judge all of the different woods and their reaction to stress? In Md you have to have a 4 year degree to get a license. If you don't have years around the business how do you know how to bid a job. You're gonna lowball a job so far just to get it, that you're hurting people in the business because they love it. Then it's inevatable that you're gonna have an accident, because every body knows that "ACCIDENTS JUST HAPPEN". Then the homeowners insurance is gonna have to pay for the damage, because you don't have insurance, because you don't have the knowledge to get licensed, so you can get insurance. Driving everyone elses insurance rates up. This subject, and the way you have been stating your point, drives me and most real tree guys nuts. That's why they called you a troll. If they are right, maybe I fed you enough to make you happy.
If I'm wrong, sorry for being rude, Joe.
Geez,
So many of are trying to discourage me because you think that I am somehow going to take business away from you. I live at least several hours or days travel from anyone I've seen here. How arrogant you are to assume that you are entitled to all work, even if it is just something you hear about. You should be realizing that the greatest threat to your income is a truckload of illegals cruising through neighborhoods looking for cash jobs. Not me. I haven't made a dime.
I did say I THOUGHT about doing work like this and I said "BUT..." . I don't want to do this arborist work! The work I am doing is to make my home safer. I have probably lost my career, and I can't afford to pay someone else to do this. I am a self-sufficient person as much as I can be. If I do nothing, that is what I expect to receive. I do take pride in my work, so I try hard to do a great job.
If I were trying to be the hack that many of you think I am, then why have I taken the time to get on this site and contact members in an attempt to learn how to do things the RIGHT way? Sure, it is easier to label me troll so you have an excuse to shut out a newbie. But how does that foster respect and gratitude for the experienced arborist? So far I have gotten more responses trying to justify why I CAN'T do this work. Well, I have to do this. I would prefer to learn something useful.
beastmaster
Addicted to ArboristSite
I have to admit maybe we are a little touchy. And there are people who use this board for their own entertainment causing chaos by provoking everyone. You can get a lot of good advice, some that could save your life. Don't hesitate to ask questions, I am one of the biggest blowhards on this board. I love answering questions and giving advice. You did seem to perfect of a stereotype. Have thick skin and learn what you can. Were not haters, for the most part. Beastmaster
Woodmiser, like I said, if your sincere, sorry for being rude. All I have to judge you by is your statements. You said "Start a Business". You said "Good at winching trees over". Those 2 statements are contradicting. A treeman doesn't hook a cable or chain on a tree and pull it over, he climbs it and takes it down. Do we use winches, of course we do. In most states you need a 4 year degree, and/or a period of time in the industry (8 years), to take the Tree Expert Exam. You have to pass that to get your license and insurance. You have to be licensed and insured to legally bid and perform work. If you haven't done that you are "ILLEGAL", what do I care if your Anglo or Mexican, your still illegal, and I do not like illegals.
Am I touchy on this issue, yes.
Am I arrogant on this issue, no. I'm the 4th generation in my family that has been licensed and insured. I didn't go the the Universty of MD just for the beer and women.
Am I worried about you taking work and money from me, no. I'm retired!!! I spend most of my time collecting pre war hunting rifles and Mopar Muscle cars from the 60's and 70's.
Yes, this is a forum for beginners. But as I said, I can only judge you by your statements, and as you can see you ruffled a few feathers by saying you were out of work in one industry and were thinking of just starting a tree business. There's a little more to it than just starting. Rant over, Joe.
Am I touchy on this issue, yes.
Am I arrogant on this issue, no. I'm the 4th generation in my family that has been licensed and insured. I didn't go the the Universty of MD just for the beer and women.
Am I worried about you taking work and money from me, no. I'm retired!!! I spend most of my time collecting pre war hunting rifles and Mopar Muscle cars from the 60's and 70's.
Yes, this is a forum for beginners. But as I said, I can only judge you by your statements, and as you can see you ruffled a few feathers by saying you were out of work in one industry and were thinking of just starting a tree business. There's a little more to it than just starting. Rant over, Joe.
Winching Trees
Ok, we all had a chance to vent.
Since there are some caveats to winching over trees, how about I tell you more about what I am doing and see what you all think.
As I have said, the majority of the trees I'm felling are pines (where there is room). These are probably 15" or so diameter. I hook a chain around the tree 15-20' up with a ladder. Then I attach a 1/4" cable to the chain, which in turn goes to a cumalong and then to another chain around a stump or tree to anchor it. I choose the correct angle I need for each tree and move everything as needed.
I take up the slack in the cable, then notch the tree in the direction I want it to fall. Then I go over and tighten the cable with the cumalong until I see the tree starting to move in the felling direction. Then I return to the tree and start sawing the back. If the tree is falling off course I saw left or right more to steer the tree as it falls. Then I go along the trunk limbing, and come back down sawing up into movable pieces. Then I go get some icewater and let me and the saw cool off.
Problems?
Ok, we all had a chance to vent.
Since there are some caveats to winching over trees, how about I tell you more about what I am doing and see what you all think.
As I have said, the majority of the trees I'm felling are pines (where there is room). These are probably 15" or so diameter. I hook a chain around the tree 15-20' up with a ladder. Then I attach a 1/4" cable to the chain, which in turn goes to a cumalong and then to another chain around a stump or tree to anchor it. I choose the correct angle I need for each tree and move everything as needed.
I take up the slack in the cable, then notch the tree in the direction I want it to fall. Then I go over and tighten the cable with the cumalong until I see the tree starting to move in the felling direction. Then I return to the tree and start sawing the back. If the tree is falling off course I saw left or right more to steer the tree as it falls. Then I go along the trunk limbing, and come back down sawing up into movable pieces. Then I go get some icewater and let me and the saw cool off.
Problems?
VA-Sawyer
Addicted to ArboristSite
rarefish,
I think if you check, you will actually find that most of the states don't have any cert requirements for tree companies. I know that a number of New England states do, and so does California. Here in NC there isn't even a tree license available. It was the same in VA.
woodmiser,
Problems ?
Yes, get a throw line so you can get your pull points higher up. They should be closer to 2/3 of the way up the tree, and if the trees are 15" at base, I don't think you are getting high enough.
Take more care in aiming the notch. Steering with the back cut is iffy at best.
Rick
I think if you check, you will actually find that most of the states don't have any cert requirements for tree companies. I know that a number of New England states do, and so does California. Here in NC there isn't even a tree license available. It was the same in VA.
woodmiser,
Problems ?
Yes, get a throw line so you can get your pull points higher up. They should be closer to 2/3 of the way up the tree, and if the trees are 15" at base, I don't think you are getting high enough.
Take more care in aiming the notch. Steering with the back cut is iffy at best.
Rick
