New At It in My Old Age ?

Arborist Forum

Help Support Arborist Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Woodmiser- I do not consider you a threat for taking money out of my pocket. I do think you are a threat to yourself. You will get just enough information and equipment to cause serious damage to yourself or property. If you want to learn, go find a local company and start as a groundsman. Learning this profession requires hands on training in the field. Not on a computer chat room!
 
Woodmiser- I do not consider you a threat for taking money out of my pocket. I do think you are a threat to yourself. You will get just enough information and equipment to cause serious damage to yourself or property. If you want to learn, go find a local company and start as a groundsman. Learning this profession requires hands on training in the field. Not on a computer chat room!

So then what is the point of this website? Is it so the experienced arborist can discourage those interested in learning? So I can't safely take down a tree without a club member around? Doesn't that seem ridiculous to you? I do respect experience, but suppressing a newbie is just to feed your own ego. Do you not feel anything positive when helping someone else? Ever try it?

I've felled at least 50 trees around my house without incident. I think through every drop. I have to plan each one as a sequence so it can fall correctly and/or not snag a favorable tree. Sure it is only few to you, and the big challenge is coming when I need to take some trees down in pieces that are close to my house. But I am trying to learn enough to do it right without damage.

As I've said before, I am broke, middle aged and my career seems over. My tree problem just gets worse. Instead of sitting on my butt, I am trying to at least improve one facet in my life.
 
Helpful Info

rarefish,

I think if you check, you will actually find that most of the states don't have any cert requirements for tree companies. I know that a number of New England states do, and so does California. Here in NC there isn't even a tree license available. It was the same in VA.

woodmiser,

Problems ?

Yes, get a throw line so you can get your pull points higher up. They should be closer to 2/3 of the way up the tree, and if the trees are 15" at base, I don't think you are getting high enough.

Take more care in aiming the notch. Steering with the back cut is iffy at best.

Rick

Thanks! I will keep this in mind.
 
You can do what you like whenever you like though I think its sad when guys just go get certified and the next thing you know they start a company but have no experiance.
 
You can do what you like whenever you like though I think its sad when guys just go get certified and the next thing you know they start a company but have no experiance.

Treework always seems to attract all the washed-ups and dreamers.... been that way as long as I been around it. I guess they figure it beats flippin' burgers, or something.
 
Old Newbie Setup Info

To OLD Newbies:

I would like to add a few things to this thread that I have found from my OJT.

Cables: I use 1/4" steel cables from harbor freight. Made up 3 sets 50' each.

Terminations: I use a eyelet/thimble at each cable end. Do not use the stainless clamps though. The stainless is a weaker material, and will often strip the threads before it is tight. I went to northern tool and got the galvanized set for 1/4" cable. YOU MUST USE 3 CLAMPS for every eyelet or the cable will slip. Bummer is that their eyelets are a bit small, and most things won't hook directly through them. Also, be sure to tighten all the nuts before you use them (check at least every day) because when you tension the cable the clamps work loose. I use the flat part of my blue channel lock pliers in between the 2 threads of the "U" to brace it, then tighten with a 1/2" wrench.

Chains: I use 3/8" chains, a 4' piece for the tree, and a 10' piece for anchoring to ground level (stump or another tree). Sometimes it would be nice to have a longer chain for the anchor.

Quick links: I have a bunch of these, 3/8". I had to bump the lower part of the threads on these with a grinder though to skinny them up enough to go through the chain links (My chain has a vinyl coating). They are rated for 2200lbs. I use them to hook everything together. Buy extra!

Winch: I use a 8,000 lb come along type from harbor freight. It only travels about 5' though, so you have to have other ways of taking up the initial slack so you can save the winch travel for pulling the tree. Look for sales and 20% coupons! Usually you can score a free flashlight in the ad too!

Every spot is different, and I always need more adjustment to the cable length than I have. I would also recommend making up several short cables of about 5' so you can get the total length right before you start to winch. The chain is great for some of this adjustment, but it is heavy. I did make up a multi-tap widowmaker cable that has taps every 5', but I wouldn't recommend it.

Also, try to keep the winch closest to the anchor end, because as you tighten it will rise into the air. For the long runs I have placed it closer to the felling tree so save some steps, but it gets harder to winch the higher it goes!

As I said earlier, once my cable is up the tree, and the slack is taken up, I notch the tree in the felling direction. Then I go over and tighten the winch, maybe bowing the tree over a little. Then I return to the tree and cut on the backside about 2-3" above the front notch. I don't go all the way through though, when I see the tree starting to go over I judge its course and deepen the back cut left to make the tree turn right, deepen right to make the tree turn left.

Once the tree is down make sure you know where those cable and chains are when you are cutting! Also, it gets tough to walk and saw with lots of trees down in an area. At least clear out the limbs before it get too deep.

Well, this is what I have found out so far, hope it helps someone. Maybe others will add something constructive to this thread.
-Woodmiser
 
Unlike many others on here, I really don't care if you kill yourself, but spreading unsafe work methods to others is just bad form. So much of what you wrote in your post above is so unsafe as to be considered suicide. Just like the guy that drives home drunk time after time, you are unable to tell the difference between safe and just lucky (so far).

REAL tree workers don't use chains and cables. They use rope that is made for tree work.
Rope has a known amount of stretch to keep peak shock loads under control. It is also very strong. My 1/2 inch Stable-Braid has a max tensile 5x more than the chain you are using.

REAL tree workers don't waste time with come-alongs very often. They use 5:1 MA setups with progress capture. Light weight and fast !

REAL tree workers know better than to try steering a falling tree with the back cut. As soon as the tree is moving, they are moving too, along the planned escape route, because they know how dumb it is to be close to the stump when the tree hits the ground.

I was a flight instructor for 20 years. You shouldn't try learning to fly on your own and tree work is the same way for the same reasons. You can't learn much if your mistake killed you !

You asked what this site was for. I'll tell you. NOT to teach the basics if tree climbing, but to help those that have been properly taught the basics how to improve their skills.

One last thing for you to think about.... you claim all this skill felling trees. There are about 10 different cuts we use on a regular basis to control how the wood pivots and falls. How many of those methods are you willing to bet your life on ? At least when standing on the ground, you have the option of trying to get out of the way when things go wrong. That doesn't work so well in the tree.

Rick
 
So then what is the point of this website? Is it so the experienced arborist can discourage those interested in learning? So I can't safely take down a tree without a club member around? Doesn't that seem ridiculous to you? I do respect experience, but suppressing a newbie is just to feed your own ego. Do you not feel anything positive when helping someone else? Ever try it?

I've felled at least 50 trees around my house without incident. I think through every drop. I have to plan each one as a sequence so it can fall correctly and/or not snag a favorable tree. Sure it is only few to you, and the big challenge is coming when I need to take some trees down in pieces that are close to my house. But I am trying to learn enough to do it right without damage.

As I've said before, I am broke, middle aged and my career seems over. My tree problem just gets worse. Instead of sitting on my butt, I am trying to at least improve one facet in my life.

You don't realize it but I am trying to be helpful. If you are broke and have no job, can you afford unexpected medical expenses if you injure yourself? Again, look around your area and see if companies are hiring groundsman.
 
Got immersed in reading through this thread, and it had the same voyeuristic appeal as watching a train wreck.

Post 45 did perk me up: "I think its sad when guys just go get certified and the next thing you know they start a company but have no experiance".

I agree.

The sad fact is that to become "successful" in this industry one doesn't need to be a good climber, or certified, or even ethical.
You just need to be a good salesman. And spend lots on advertising to promote your business. Appearance is everything.
You can always hire a proficient climber even on a part-time, occaisional basis.

I regard myself as a veteran in this industry (started in 1987). I've paid my dues in terms of sweat, blood, broken bones, scars, heartache, and disapointment. And there have been exhilarating highs to offset the lows, but I'm getting beaten down, and tired.
I've been a former NAA/ISA member, and was ISA certified for 9 years.

For those of you who have been been around for a long time, ask yourselves how often a client want to see proof of your certification, or a certificate of insurance, worker's comp, etc? They might inquire "If" you have insurance, but rarely demand to see a copy of it.

The "average" homeowner usually wants to know two things: "How much will it cost?" and "How soon can you do the work?"
I now run into customers who, when the work is completed, absolutely refuse point blank to pay the tax on the invoice. Even though it was on the quotation. They insist on paying cash. Up here in Ontario, the sales tax (HST) is 13%. Am I supposed to "eat" that 13% when I deposit that cash into my business account? Do I not declare the work as income? How long can this mess continue before it is AUDIT TIME.

And then we wonder why Tom, ####, and Harry are now doing tree work rather than just mowing lawns. I encouraged my son to NOT follow in my footsteps.
 
For those of you who have been been around for a long time, ask yourselves how often a client want to see proof of your certification, or a certificate of insurance, worker's comp, etc?

Every job we do! But we don't do residential because their is no future or long term market if you want a big company.
Jeff
 
I started tree work full time at 37...BUT with a full background of horticulture and landscaping and I was fit. I love it!

You better be a fit 45 or be prepared to experience some pain on the way to getting fit!

From what I've read on this forum and others, good tree companies are crying for good reliable, hardworking, honest, non dope smoking beer guzzling texting facebooking addicted ground workers.

If you can fit that bill to start with you'd get a way better idea if tree work is where you want to move to. You learn how to keep a site clear for a climber, service saws, run ropes and then later maybe try a bit of climbing.
Read books, learn to ID trees and shrubs and pests and disease...give it a try!
 
you got to love ever one who thinks we make the big bucks right a way 38 years climbing now and still climbing looking for that big job any way its takes a lone time to be a pro but some times it come by you i have a 50 k job coming up in sept
 
Back
Top