KenJax Tree
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opcorn:
New Career
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opcorn:
Whoa! Don't send him up here. Ha that's a good one, I think the last timber job left Montana about ten years ago. There are already too many people there who went chasing a dream that didn't exist, went broke and got stuck in a small town. Man I have known a lot of people like that.
treemandan
Tree Freak
A lumberjack is what a 6 year old boy dreams of becoming til he grows up and puts on his mommy's clothes.
treeclimber101
UNCLE BUCK
Or goes on a public forum with red eyes and a dish rag over his shoulder , complaining about how tired he was from cramming Benny floppy ears in her evening dress.
StihlPowerr
ArboristSite Lurker
Sounds great. I am seriously thinking about doing the same thing.
You'd be better off doing that than you would be logging.
sawsalottawood
ArboristSite Member
These guys are great
Hey, I cleaned up a downed tree after a storm. I am going PRO. I cant wait to get my earthquake viper 42cc saw into some big WOOD! Anyone willing to take on a greenhorn LUMBERJACK lolololol?
I want to be on a crew with StihlPower, leland and lilred!
Best Wishes,
SAWs
PS- stick to ur day job! Stihlpower your 15 years too old. Leland you know just enough to get someone hurt. Lred these guys make you look pro, and they will be undercutting your 13 bones an hour in no time.
Hey, I cleaned up a downed tree after a storm. I am going PRO. I cant wait to get my earthquake viper 42cc saw into some big WOOD! Anyone willing to take on a greenhorn LUMBERJACK lolololol?
I want to be on a crew with StihlPower, leland and lilred!
Best Wishes,
SAWs
PS- stick to ur day job! Stihlpower your 15 years too old. Leland you know just enough to get someone hurt. Lred these guys make you look pro, and they will be undercutting your 13 bones an hour in no time.
StihlPowerr
ArboristSite Lurker
Your never to old sawsalottawood remember that. I am still young and strong as an ox. Send me your resume and maybe I will let you on the crew. Lol!!Hey, I cleaned up a downed tree after a storm. I am going PRO. I cant wait to get my earthquake viper 42cc saw into some big WOOD! Anyone willing to take on a greenhorn LUMBERJACK lolololol?
I want to be on a crew with StihlPower, leland and lilred!
Best Wishes,
SAWs
PS- stick to ur day job! Stihlpower your 15 years too old. Leland you know just enough to get someone hurt. Lred these guys make you look pro, and they will be undercutting your 13 bones an hour in no time.
treeclimber101
UNCLE BUCK
If someone told me 14 years ago to stay a Ironworker and forget about all this being your own boss nonsense I would of called him a weak fool , now if someone told me that I could be an Ironworker again and have a steady position and retire nicely I would hug him . Think about what your leaving to getting yourself into , me I was too smart to see what was the better of the 2 choices , granted now I feel that I have crossed over the hump its still a up hill battle and time moves fast when your always behind .
StihlPowerr
ArboristSite Lurker
Thank you that's good advice.
StihlPowerr
ArboristSite Lurker
All you guys well some of you have been very helpful. Thanks
LelandJF
ArboristSite Lurker
Eh, I plan on being safe and refusing jobs that I'm not suited for, but I guess we'll see.
Guided by this mentality and no equipment, making for a lot of work, I can't imagine I'd be taking too many jobs or undercutting any body that does this for a living.
Guided by this mentality and no equipment, making for a lot of work, I can't imagine I'd be taking too many jobs or undercutting any body that does this for a living.
arborealbuffoon
Wood Wh@re
OK, stihlpowerr. I am gonna give this a shot, even though this will be about the tenth time I have said the same things on here. I'll even try to be nice, so as not to lose your attention immediately.
First off, I can save lots of typing by giving you a little homework assignment. Go back thru this thread and carefully read each of the posts by Gologit. I have never met the man, but I know that he is speaking the truth. His experiences cutting wood have been very different than mine, yet much the same I fear.
Secondly, cutting wood is really hard work. You are 39, and that tells me that by the time you are competent rigging from a rope and saddle your body is going to be wearing out quickly. And, having done it myself (before buncher-fellers) I can guarantee you that logging is a fool's game these days. Now that the woods where I used to cut are mostly mechanized, there are VERY few jobs for full time cutters. And, you could never understand what a bad idea it is until you have been brush f#c$ed all day and burned ten or eleven tanks thru a saw that runs an hour plus on each tank. That's about the time the Forest Service will close the roads and you get to watch your logs sit in the woods (no pay). Oh, and don't forget that the housing market stinks and the mill will also quit taking logs when they can't sell them. Unstable markets, federal regulations, etc.
Hope you have enough money in the bank to live for a month with NO pay.
And, while you CAN make a buck in urban forestry, it's even more work than logging in my experience. And, a whole other set of conundrums, travesties, and never ending dilemmas. I am pushing 50 now, and still climb on a limited basis. Back surgery happened for me at age 25, and it never gets better. Hurts like hell. I live like a freakin' desperado as an arborist and it really makes me feel stupid. But I sure can't live on the 8 dollar an hour wages they're paying these days. I do have other skills to fall back on, as well as a college education. The wood wh#ring kinda gets in your blood and it's hard to give up for some sick twisted reason. So, kinda like smoking tobacco, what I'm trying to say is DON'T START!!
Apologies to all for the long winded post. While it might sound like I am whining, I am really only trying to speak the Truth. And I wish I had a straight job with retirement and health care.....
It is my fault for the choices I made, and I take full responsibility for that. Good luck to you, sir.
First off, I can save lots of typing by giving you a little homework assignment. Go back thru this thread and carefully read each of the posts by Gologit. I have never met the man, but I know that he is speaking the truth. His experiences cutting wood have been very different than mine, yet much the same I fear.
Secondly, cutting wood is really hard work. You are 39, and that tells me that by the time you are competent rigging from a rope and saddle your body is going to be wearing out quickly. And, having done it myself (before buncher-fellers) I can guarantee you that logging is a fool's game these days. Now that the woods where I used to cut are mostly mechanized, there are VERY few jobs for full time cutters. And, you could never understand what a bad idea it is until you have been brush f#c$ed all day and burned ten or eleven tanks thru a saw that runs an hour plus on each tank. That's about the time the Forest Service will close the roads and you get to watch your logs sit in the woods (no pay). Oh, and don't forget that the housing market stinks and the mill will also quit taking logs when they can't sell them. Unstable markets, federal regulations, etc.
Hope you have enough money in the bank to live for a month with NO pay.
And, while you CAN make a buck in urban forestry, it's even more work than logging in my experience. And, a whole other set of conundrums, travesties, and never ending dilemmas. I am pushing 50 now, and still climb on a limited basis. Back surgery happened for me at age 25, and it never gets better. Hurts like hell. I live like a freakin' desperado as an arborist and it really makes me feel stupid. But I sure can't live on the 8 dollar an hour wages they're paying these days. I do have other skills to fall back on, as well as a college education. The wood wh#ring kinda gets in your blood and it's hard to give up for some sick twisted reason. So, kinda like smoking tobacco, what I'm trying to say is DON'T START!!
Apologies to all for the long winded post. While it might sound like I am whining, I am really only trying to speak the Truth. And I wish I had a straight job with retirement and health care.....
It is my fault for the choices I made, and I take full responsibility for that. Good luck to you, sir.
In my teens and early twenties, I worked with relatives and a couple contractors cutting wood. I quit cause it is brutal on the body. Watched my uncles turn into cripples in their mid-forties onwards due to back, shoulder and other joint injuries requiring surgery and long recovery periods that were never followed cause they needed money.
It is all mechanized today and hard to compete against.
I use those skills today to help people. Do a lot of volunteer work with storm recovery cutting and training people that want to learn how to cut safely. Not a know it all, but willing to listen to those that are wiser.
Went to college and got a viable degree in engineering. Made more money much easier with that degree than logging and working potato farms. Never forgot my roots, have nothing but the utmost respect for those that choose to do this for a living.
Listen to those that did this for twenty - thirty years. Why are they all saying the same thing? It sure is not because they are afraid of some competition.
It is all mechanized today and hard to compete against.
I use those skills today to help people. Do a lot of volunteer work with storm recovery cutting and training people that want to learn how to cut safely. Not a know it all, but willing to listen to those that are wiser.
Went to college and got a viable degree in engineering. Made more money much easier with that degree than logging and working potato farms. Never forgot my roots, have nothing but the utmost respect for those that choose to do this for a living.
Listen to those that did this for twenty - thirty years. Why are they all saying the same thing? It sure is not because they are afraid of some competition.
Aborealbuffoon and Currently said it right...and it gives you two sides of the coin. "Getting" to cut wood and having to cut wood are two very different things.
I started logging because, where I came from, career choices were limited. I've stuck with it, quitting occasionally to briefly try other things, for about fifty years. It's all I ever wanted to do. I wonder about that sometimes.
I've been very lucky in that I've always been able to make a decent living. That's not through any special or unique ability on my part. My skill sets are very common in this part of the country. A lot of times it was just being in the right place at the right time with a good word from somebody to get my foot in the door. Logging isn't steady work and we were networking with each other to find jobs long before networking was a buzz word.
I've never filled out an employment application for a logging job...it's always a phone call from somebody I've worked for , or a coffee shop conversation, or running into a friend at the saw shop who mentions that so and so is looking for somebody...that's where the jobs come from.
I do the same thing when I'm looking to hire somebody. I have a book with the names and numbers of good workers that I trust. I won't hire a guy off the street that I don't know. Neither will anybody else . There are always experienced guys out of work to pick from. That in itself should tell you something about this business.
The other guys mentioned that logging is hard on the body. It is. It's not as bad now as it was when I started because of the increased mechanization but there's still enough risk involved to keep our workman's comp rates some of the highest there are.
Most of the guys that started when I did are either on permanent disability...or dead. I've seen many guys get hurt in the woods and I've packed out two falling partners who never knew what hit them.
And again, I've been lucky. I've had two knee replacements, back surgery, a hip repair, two broken legs, two broken arms, a broken collar bone, and two heart attacks. I'm not counting all the scrapes and tears and cuts and bruises that weren't serious enough to go home early for. It's just part of the life.
I don't know much about being an arborist. The only climbing I've done was years ago, topping spar trees and hanging rigging. That's easy stuff compared to the kind of climbing an arborist does. But having watched them work and having listened closely when they talk I truly believe that their work is just as dangerous and just as hard on the body as logging.
Find something else to do. If you want to cut a little wood there are always volunteer trail crews and church groups that do charity cuts. Buy a woodstove and cut up your own firewood. It's good exercise and you can go home when you want to.
I started logging because, where I came from, career choices were limited. I've stuck with it, quitting occasionally to briefly try other things, for about fifty years. It's all I ever wanted to do. I wonder about that sometimes.
I've been very lucky in that I've always been able to make a decent living. That's not through any special or unique ability on my part. My skill sets are very common in this part of the country. A lot of times it was just being in the right place at the right time with a good word from somebody to get my foot in the door. Logging isn't steady work and we were networking with each other to find jobs long before networking was a buzz word.
I've never filled out an employment application for a logging job...it's always a phone call from somebody I've worked for , or a coffee shop conversation, or running into a friend at the saw shop who mentions that so and so is looking for somebody...that's where the jobs come from.
I do the same thing when I'm looking to hire somebody. I have a book with the names and numbers of good workers that I trust. I won't hire a guy off the street that I don't know. Neither will anybody else . There are always experienced guys out of work to pick from. That in itself should tell you something about this business.
The other guys mentioned that logging is hard on the body. It is. It's not as bad now as it was when I started because of the increased mechanization but there's still enough risk involved to keep our workman's comp rates some of the highest there are.
Most of the guys that started when I did are either on permanent disability...or dead. I've seen many guys get hurt in the woods and I've packed out two falling partners who never knew what hit them.
And again, I've been lucky. I've had two knee replacements, back surgery, a hip repair, two broken legs, two broken arms, a broken collar bone, and two heart attacks. I'm not counting all the scrapes and tears and cuts and bruises that weren't serious enough to go home early for. It's just part of the life.
I don't know much about being an arborist. The only climbing I've done was years ago, topping spar trees and hanging rigging. That's easy stuff compared to the kind of climbing an arborist does. But having watched them work and having listened closely when they talk I truly believe that their work is just as dangerous and just as hard on the body as logging.
Find something else to do. If you want to cut a little wood there are always volunteer trail crews and church groups that do charity cuts. Buy a woodstove and cut up your own firewood. It's good exercise and you can go home when you want to.
imagineero
Addicted to ArboristSite
Think about it the same as you would any career - consider the career progression opportunities, take home pay working hours, employee benefits, risks, and the lifestyle.... or how much you enjoy the job. Too many guys that startup in these sorts of industries have no concept of the costs of being in business, they just think they're doing well because they get cash in their pocket each day but wonder why they're always broke. The costs involved are significant. If you're running your own show then by the time you take out insurance, tax, equipment costs, depreciation, fuel, vehicle running expenses, saws, maintenance, something for things that break, something for future acquisitions, then take whatever is left over.... remove something for retirement, holidays, sick days, clothing/safety equipment and maybe some income protection insurance for when you get hurt... divide whatever is left by 52 and you'll come up with what you earn in a year. Or what you have to pay to keep working in some cases!
Add in that there are no guarantees, and long term contracts are rare so you don't know how things will be from month to month. If you live in a cold state you may not get any work in winter. Same story if you get a lot of rain. Same story if the economy isn't going well. Same story if someone in your area starts undercutting you etc...
If you're still interested then I'd reccomend urban tree work over logging. You'll be starting at the bottom which means dragging brush and feeding a chipper, cleaning up and cutting up branches, sharpening/fueling saws, possibly driving the truck, and running ropes. Pay starts at around $10/hour. After a few months you'll probably know what you need to know about grounding. Now it's time to start learning to climb, then rig. You'll need certification/training if you want to be any good. Expect to be competent after a couple years experience. You won't have much to show for it. Then you'll need some $$$ for a truck, chipper, saws, climbing gear, rigging gear, insurance etc. After another 2-3 years you ought to have that paid off if things go well and you'll be ready to make your first dollar. You'll be about 45 by then, and in a position to make about as much as any guy in the tree game, which is less than what you think. Running a business means you have the potential to make a profit or a loss.
I'd say have a go. You've got nothing to lose but your time. Ring every tree company in your area, tell them you're looking for ground work. Say you've got osme experience working for a friend/family member and that you can run a saw. Some hack will give you a start. If you still like it after a few weeks, call around again. You'll know enough to bluff your way into a better job at that point.
Or if you just need to get your fill of being outdoors doing man stuff don't be afraid of doing some weekend firewooding. Pays for your toys, and you can still making a living mid week.
Shaun
Add in that there are no guarantees, and long term contracts are rare so you don't know how things will be from month to month. If you live in a cold state you may not get any work in winter. Same story if you get a lot of rain. Same story if the economy isn't going well. Same story if someone in your area starts undercutting you etc...
If you're still interested then I'd reccomend urban tree work over logging. You'll be starting at the bottom which means dragging brush and feeding a chipper, cleaning up and cutting up branches, sharpening/fueling saws, possibly driving the truck, and running ropes. Pay starts at around $10/hour. After a few months you'll probably know what you need to know about grounding. Now it's time to start learning to climb, then rig. You'll need certification/training if you want to be any good. Expect to be competent after a couple years experience. You won't have much to show for it. Then you'll need some $$$ for a truck, chipper, saws, climbing gear, rigging gear, insurance etc. After another 2-3 years you ought to have that paid off if things go well and you'll be ready to make your first dollar. You'll be about 45 by then, and in a position to make about as much as any guy in the tree game, which is less than what you think. Running a business means you have the potential to make a profit or a loss.
I'd say have a go. You've got nothing to lose but your time. Ring every tree company in your area, tell them you're looking for ground work. Say you've got osme experience working for a friend/family member and that you can run a saw. Some hack will give you a start. If you still like it after a few weeks, call around again. You'll know enough to bluff your way into a better job at that point.
Or if you just need to get your fill of being outdoors doing man stuff don't be afraid of doing some weekend firewooding. Pays for your toys, and you can still making a living mid week.
Shaun
B Harrison
ArboristSite Guru
Thats it, Daminit, that was good coffee too, now I need windex, paper towels, and this keyboard might get replaced.
Thanks,
really thanks
I won't even pick my nose reading one of Treemandan's posts :msp_scared: let alone trying to eat or drink something. :msp_angry:
StihlPowerr
ArboristSite Lurker
You won't believe this but I just got a job offer to work at the local lumber yard. I really want to cut trees down but it all ends up at the lumber yard. What to do?
arborealbuffoon
Wood Wh@re
Go with it!
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