new climbing styles vs. old

[rbtree]

Tom,

I'm just starting to use a steel biner (or sometimes a shot pouch) for those times when I need to flip my lifeline up a ways. The weight sure helps. I clip my lifeline end directly to the Versatile loops, so a snap would be awkward to get in that small space. And heavy all the time. I've really grown accustomed to climbing on two separated loops, so havent gone back to the sliding D set up for ages-i should. May get a butterfly....

JPS,

How do yo make your hitch loops with the tenex? I kinda watched the Sherril splicer. Didnt all sink in tho, I remember he was tapering the ends to get a smooth bury- to make the line appear seamless. It is neat how the 3/8 ends up being almost 1/2 inch when spliced. I have enuf to make a few...however I prefer the feel of 3/8 double braid.

 

[Nickrosis]

Can-do-it,

I'm very encouraged when I hear people like you or treeclimber165. It gives me a boost of energy to press on.

Rbtree,

You create two eyes and bury. The buries should overlap, so taper the ends so that you don't create a bulge or low spot. Even if you do, like I did last week, the strength difference is negligible. The real issue, I believe, is that the bulge could press against your climbing line and end up wearing faster. Good luck.

Nickrosis

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

The eyes are made with a locking brummel splice.

make the first tuck then take the running end and tuck it through the tail of your first tuck, so they will lock against each other. then cut your taper and burry.

Someone linked a good diagram a while back, cant find it. It is for a mobius brummel, which works very well for ultratech

 

[Nickrosis]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, JPS, but it sounds like you're using the same end and tucking twice. It's more than that, and I'd really like a picture now!

 

[hillbilly]

JPS, Nick, it was this one, right ?

http://www.newenglandropes.com/splice/sp13_sbraid_eye_brummel.htm

Splicing is like therapy, real relaxing and quite rewarding.
I picked some rela weird rope yesterday at a marine / sailing
shop. It's called "Mulitplait", it reminds of 3-strand although it's
8-strand. Mine is 14 mm diameter and breaks at 46 kN. Also has "superior abrasion resistance".
Must find a use for it, it is a joy to splice, and the splice becomes
square-shaped

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

That is the link I was talking about.

The way i do it would look like skipping steps 4-9.

the diagram is the best way to do ultratech. Becuase it has a sheath, the only other way you can get a locking splice it to do a rebraid of the end

 

[CJ-7]

Hey Hillbilly, That Multiplait looks like a hawser from a baby tugboat!

 

[hillbilly]

"That Multiplait looks like a hawser from a baby tugboat!"

Hehe CJ-7, it might just be something like that.
Is see no problem in using it as a MTIP, False Crotch, or whatever
you want to call it. It's pretty expensive, that's the
only real con. I can see.

 

[CJ-7]

Hilbilly, For a Swede, you have the english language down better than most of the arbos on the site, your spelling is a whole lot better than most. Are you a transplant from the US of A? My grandfather came over in 1890 and worked the northern Michigan hardwood lumber camps for a few years before he got married and settled down as a farmer. As you can probably tell from my name, I have some Swede in my blood, but don't try anything other than english on me!

 

[SRT-Tech]

I have somewhat of a dilemma concerning all these newfangled climbing tools. Most of what I have learned in the last 5-10 years about climbing and new gear has been through industry mags and of course the Sherrill catalogue. When conversing with other climbers in places like this, it seems like EVERYONE uses all this new stuff. But in REAL LIFE, I have only met one climber who uses a split-tail system, and I climbed twice as fast as him. I still climb with my old-fashioned Karl Kuemmerling belt, never had a 'biner attached to it and probably wouldn't know what to do with one if I had it. I can tie my tautline hitch without looking- one handed. I trust it with my life without even thinking about it. I have seen pics of some of the setups some guys use, and it is a mass of confusion and multiple ropes with multiple attachments. WAY too much stuff for me to worry about. I'll stick with one rope and one locking clip, thank you.

If I ever could actually work with someone as adept with all this new stuff as you guys seem to be, it might be different.But in my world, it isn't here. Why does this stuff only exist online and in magazines?

bumping this thread up, in particular the highlighted qoute.......

i have to agree (highlighted text) with this poster.....i see all sorts of new styles and equipment online and in the discusion baords, BUT i go to the stores or to tree companies (looking for work) and it seems that NO ONE has heard about split-tail climbing, DRT, SRT, Blakes hitch, friction savers, etc etc etc etc etc.......they look at me like i'm mad (yea yea, you can rib me). Even the rock climbers i hang out with when i'm doing SRT ascending and rappelling look at my SRT gear and say " oh that stuff is only for caving..." or "whats that?" or "whats a static line"....

i go into the local climbing, rope, and gear suppliers and some of them are totally clueless to basic brandnames (YALE, SAMSON, CMI, SMC, WALES etc etc) or they are clueless to the terms (splittail, friction saver etc etc etc etc) and they dont even know where to find stuff like that.....i find more often than not, that its easier for me to buy online and save the hassle of trying to explain what i'm after in the local gear shops. hell, it took me 3 months (7 years ago) to find a rappel rack in vancouver, no one knew what i was talking about in the climbing shops....by chance i ran into a fire rescue guy that was training and asked where he gets his gear. He pointed me towards a dedicated rescue shop.

as for arborist gear, i have found a local dealer that is knowledgable, so at least that area is covered.....lol


I live in a very large metropolitian center (over 2 million people) and you would think there would be more awareness and knowledge of even the most basic of equipment, techniques and styles......(SRT, DRT etc)...but thats not the case....

WHY IS THIS? why do I feel like an outcast because i take the time to research new gear, try out new gear, learn new techniques etc etc? I told a potential employer about my skills, and they asked "whats that?" - no clue...none....

rant

 

[clearance]

Its OK, SRT, we are just a bunch of inbred retards in BC, I don't know how we get any treework done at all. And how we log, why its just amazing.

 

[SRT-Tech]

ROTFLMAO!!!!! :hmm3grin2orange:

come on Clearance, i'm sure you've come across this too over the years...

lol

 

[l2edneck]

we are just a bunch of inbred retards

haha i resemble that remark
old school for me my bro uses pulleys to make it easier to lower and zip line to frontyard but me just my hand saw chainsaw ladder lifeline taughtline bowline and receipt book(oh and of course my pen to sign the check):hmm3grin2orange:

 

[Climb020]

Well I started climbing old school but it only took me about 8 months to begin changing to the newer styles. Now after 2 years of climbing, lots of reading, classes, and following what some of the other guys do like Mark Chisholm my climbing has improved so much.
FASTER
That is the key for me no matter what the cost. Getting the work done faster means more money in your pocket. I might work for someone right now but I plan to do my own thing so this is like try outs. I can foot lock 100' faster then I could hip thrust 50. And I have a lot more energy in the tree.

Where I work I am the demo guy. I buy the new stuff and other guys try it out and see what they think. Got on guy to go from his 8 year old "suicide" saddle to a fancy tree austria. He thought it looked funny but it is much more comfortable.

The key is to go to expo and try the gear there. Asks the sales man, comp. guys, as well as people online what they think. Newer doesn't mean better but it could be safer which is also a plus.

Here is just a few new tools that I think are worth way more then I paid.
Kond Dual Ascender-After using it I would have paid double what I did because it makes my job much faster.
Tree Austria Saddle- This saddle is very similar to the butterfly. It is the most comfortable saddle I could find after 6 months of looking for one. The closest thing I found to sitting on my sofa.
Geckos II- Very light and as comfortable as spikes can be. After 5 hours in the tree with the one my shins just barely bother me. Using older spike for much shorter periods of time have hurt much worse.

All in all it is what works best for each climber. But most likely I would say that you just haven't tried it or given a newer idea or tool enough of a chance to see what it can do. Not everything is great cause I have plenty of gear I bought that I don't use ort use for the intended purpose because I didn't fit my sytle. One last thing. When I started climb and doing it old school after work I could barely move I was so tired. Now after work I do home and go find 100' oak trees to climb for fun. If work is less work and more fun it is even better.

 

[SRT-Tech]

think ya misunderstood me...:biggrinbounce2: I am a gear junkie. I have nothing but the best equipment, and am always adding to it, along with new techniques and lots of training.......what i meant in my post was: "seems like nobody out there is actually using the gear or the techniques....cuz they have'nt heard of it or experienced it". Those that i talk to dont want to learn new techniques, they think that their way is the only way and anything else is unheard of.

 

[Climb020]

My post wasn't directed at you SRT but everyone as a whole. There just is no one way to do things as well as there isn't just one best way to do something. As well all know that each situation is different and should be approached that way. The more tricks in your bag the better off you are gonna be. Like I always climb with my VT hitch but sometimes I have to do the blakes just because of not having 2 set-ups.Just on tree entry there are many ways to go about it and I use each weekly...like body thrust with my VT, body thrust with ascender, SRT, DDRT.

But I do have to give credit to the guys that still do old school. I work with a guy on saturdays that is strightly old school. Doesn't own a krab, hand saw, throw line and many other things. And at times he can out climb me even though he has 20 years on me. But at other times...when there is just one hander 60 feet up what you gonna do? He would climb it and take 30-45 mintues to do when I can just whip out the throwline and within a minuted be done.

I look at things this way. Knowledge is power. Power is money. And who doesn't want to make more money?

 

[SRT-Tech]

ah no worries...

 

[TopJimmy]

When I first started hanging around this site, I never paid attention to the climbing forum. I said that I would never climb a tree (I only trim my own trees and have a 31' scissor lift), however the addictive nature of this site has me thinking about climbing. When I look at the catalogs, the amount of equipment is a little overwhelming. I was going to start ordering equipment, but decided to start with the Tree Climbers Companion. I think that I have come to the conclusion that the novice climber should start with the most basic equipment and become proficient with the basic climbing skills before trying the new equipment. Do you experienced climbers agree? Thanks for the input. If you agree, what would you consider the "Basic Equipment"

Jim

 

[Dan R Porter]

Simple and Safe is often better.

You might contact Tom Dunlop. He teaches classes on advanced and basic climbing techniques and I know he has a segment on simple and safe methods...


Frans

I could not agree more. In rock climbing and Tree climbing everyone wants to look cool, look profesional, and make things more complicated then they need to be. Simple setups are less likely to be messed up so simple is safe.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

In all fairness to the Rock; i think after starting this thread he came around a bit; and even wrote in some of his r-evolution to better climbing practices, hitches, gear that verbalized and pairallelled the doubts, experiences and growth of others.

It is easy to say that all this stuff is unneeded; just do it the old way; don't wade thru the L-earning curve. Some of the stuff i've tried didn't seem to fit, but most did; or in the hitches helped evolve me to another level/ hitch later on.

i'm pleased to report, that these devices and strategies are maid by very serious people; not just those looking to name something or sell it; at least IMLHO.

i've groan to use slings and krab sets for many, many things. But, there was a time when they just sat in the truck; and if it seemed it was worth it, i'd have a 1 or 2 sent up. Of course, the weighing and balancing to determine if they were worth sending up; also entailed the 'cost' of asking someone for them, them finding them, walking back, sending them up etc.; all while everything else was going on. So, mostly they didn't get used much.

It wasn't until i decided and committed they were part of my gear, that i carried up with me all the time; that i really started figuring out the multitudes of uses and flexibility they gave. Sometimes now, i might not take them up (rarely); but at least now i can more fairly determine when i need i might need them or not. Especially after losing the spurs; the sling/krab sets aren't much weight to carry, for all of their uses.

When getting something new, and all excited about it; i'll now use that energy of enthusiasm etc. to throw me thru the newness of using and assessing when i need that device, by using it more than needed. Then fall back into being more realistic etc.

A lot of the newer gear; focuses on technique rather than brute strength to get thru. Just like my gymnastic coach always tried to get me to focus on (technique). Now, i'm extra glad about those lessons too; for as the strength and parts fade; the technique can carry you thru! And if the older or more compromised can reach heights they couldn't with these things; what about the younger; if they'd only slow down enough to take them in and work them long enough to gain these strategies, and add them to their skill and strength set?

Also, if i knew m'Lady was the right one fer me from the beginning; i'd like to say that i'd forsaken all others for her; but then all that too has been part of growth. But, still; i'm glad i didn't just blindly stick with the first girl, 2nd etc.; and am glad that i have the more informed decision through some traveling and frustrations; of knowing and appreciating why i'm with her; that this is what fits for me above all else! My choice of gear and style, has been the same!


Orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr something like that:deadhorse: