New Guy and Saws

[cre10]

Hey guys I'm new here and thought this looked like a great site so I joined to become a member. I've been running saws since I was 12 years old. I'm not an expert at all. I came here to learn more about my saws, learn about chain pitch, and anything and everything else.

I'm curious to learn about 3/8 low pitch, .325, and 3/8 standard. Just curious about ideal bar lengths for my saws and pitches.

I have
2- MS180's with 14" .050 bars.

2- MS211's with 16" .050 bars

2- MS290's with 20" .063 bars.

 

[old-cat]

If you have not read the Oregon Maintenance manual pdf, that's a real high value source of info.

 

[cre10]

If you have not read the Oregon Maintenance manual pdf, that's a real high value source of info.

This?

http://www.oregonproducts.com/pro/pdf/maintenance_manual/ms_manual.pdf

I mainly came here to learn from you guys as experts. I've been thinking of getting something a little lighter than my 290, but more powerful than my 211's. I want to make sure I get the right saw and have it set up right. 3/8, 3/8lp, and .325 confuses me and I also don't get how you guys are so smart in knowing, "hey a 20" bar is too much for a 250, run a 16 .325... etc"

 

[SawTroll]

Hey guys I'm new here and thought this looked like a great site so I joined to become a member. I've been running saws since I was 12 years old. I'm not an expert at all. I came here to learn more about my saws, learn about chain pitch, and anything and everything else.

I'm curious to learn about 3/8 low pitch, .325, and 3/8 standard. Just curious about ideal bar lengths for my saws and pitches.

I have
2- MS180's with 14" .050 bars.

2- MS211's with 16" .050 bars

2- MS290's with 20" .063 bars.

Your bars are longer than what works best on those saws, but still within reason - provided you have 3/8 low pro (picco) on the two smallest ones, and .325 on the 290.

 

[cre10]

The 180's and 211's run low profile 3/8 and the 290's run .325.


At size is it good to go from .325 to regular 3/8? 3/8 takes more power to run because the cutting teeth are spaced further apart?

 

[SawTroll]

This?

http://www.oregonproducts.com/pro/pdf/maintenance_manual/ms_manual.pdf

I mainly came here to learn from you guys as experts. I've been thinking of getting something a little lighter than my 290, but more powerful than my 211's. I want to make sure I get the right saw and have it set up right. 3/8, 3/8lp, and .325 confuses me and I also don't get how you guys are so smart in knowing, "hey a 20" bar is too much for a 250, run a 16 .325... etc"

Asking on here is fine - but I recommend starting with reading that Oregon manual, and the comparable one from stihl (I believe you can find it on Stihls US website).

 

[TreePointer]

It's all about cutting efficiency.

I owned a 290 (20", .325, .063) and the engine bogged down when I buried the bar in hardwoods like oak. What that means is that the saw didn't have enough power to pull that many teeth through the wood at one time and still maintain reasonable speed. Each tooth that is in contact with the wood adds resistance and adds to the powwer requirement for the saw to maintain chain speed and not bog down.

One solution to maintaining chain speed is to use a shorter bar, which results in fewer teeth in contact with the wood at one time.

Another solution is for each tooth to take smaller "bites" of wood. Of the pitches you mentioned, 3/8 pitch takes the largest bite, .325 is smaller, and .3/8LP is the smallest.

On long bars, a solution is to use fewer teeth per length of chain. Semi-skip and full-skip (or skip) chains have fewer teeth than stadard full-comp chains. The end result is fewer teeth in the cut at one time.

 

[J_Arena]

Here is the Stihl manual........ http://www.stihllibrary.com/pdf/SharpAdvice061301final.pdf

 

[SawTroll]

The 180's and 211's run low profile 3/8 and the 290's run .325.


At size is it good to go from .325 to regular 3/8? 3/8 takes more power to run because the cutting teeth are spaced further apart?

That factor actually works in the opposite direction, but the cutters of regular 3/8 are taller (and often wider as well, but not always). The main reason is that it is easier to "gear" the .325 lower (smaller drive sprocket diameter + a lower chassis on the chain). Higher cutters and larger diameter around the drive sprocket basically "steals" torque from the saw/chain.
This is the basic stuff, but there are a lot you can do to saw performance by using different combinations of chain and gearing (and more), but to really do that you need much better and stronger saws than the ones you have...

 

[TreePointer]

One can define a sweetspot for saw bar length as the longest length that can be buried in the type of wood you normally cut without bogging the engine. Some will also add other factors such as saw balance and reach as factors, but cutting speed is most important to me. Generally accepted bar length "sweetspots":

50cc = 16"
60cc = 20"
70cc = 24" (give or take)

Note that the 290 is between a 50cc and 60cc saw. That means its sweetspot is less than 20" according to what I wrote above and the experience of many sawyers here.

The 50-60cc range also happens to be the transition range for chain pitch. 60cc saws and larger perform very well with 3/8 pitch chain. 50cc saws do well with the smaller bite of .325 pitch. And there are always exceptions, depending on the model. For instance, there are some here who really like their Dolmar 5100's with the larger bite of 3/8 pitch on a 16-18" bar instead of .325 pitch.

 

[Uncle John]

Welcome new guy!......................:msp_thumbup:

 

[lambs]

Hey guys I'm new here and thought this looked like a great site so I joined to become a member. I've been running saws since I was 12 years old. I'm not an expert at all. I came here to learn more about my saws, learn about chain pitch, and anything and everything else.

I'm curious to learn about 3/8 low pitch, .325, and 3/8 standard. Just curious about ideal bar lengths for my saws and pitches.

I have
2- MS180's with 14" .050 bars.

2- MS211's with 16" .050 bars

2- MS290's with 20" .063 bars.

You'll probably find this in the various reference materials listed in this thread, but pitch is the difference between any 3 rivets on the chain, divided by 2. .325 inch, or 3/8 inch. 3/8 LP is "low pro" chain, smaller cutters but with 3/8 pitch.

You will learn a lot from these guys on AS. I sure have. Welcome.

 

[T0RN4D0]

More or less everything is in the size of the cutters and compromises.

A bigger cutter (3/8LP<,325<3/8<,404) can take a bigger bite and clear more chips from the cut. Bigger cutters make wider cuts. It will dull slower and the chain has longer life because the cutter is longer. Because of the bigger pitch there are less cutters on the same length of chain, so less cutters to sharpen. Bigger pitch also gives you more chain speed when using a sprocket with the same amount of teeth.

Smaller cutters need less power to work and are a bit smoother in the cut.


What kind of chain to use? In general for higher grade saws i would say

3/8LP below 40cc
,325 for 40+cc
3/8 for 60cc+
,404 for 90cc+

And chain lengths... 14" for sub 40cc, 16" for 50cc, 18-20" for 60cc, 24" for 70cc etc...

With exceptions to those. For example you use a longer bar on a smaller bar if you just want bigger reach and don't bury the bar. Or using a shorter bar and bigger pitch if you want to keep all you chains the same pitch. Or use smaller pitch on a big saw if you're cutting green wood and never dull your chain etc :] Nothing wrong with using smaller bars either, cutting with a small bar on a strong saw is fun and wicked fast.

Homeowner or chinese class saws should maybe downgrade by a class to fit the bill, because a pro grade 50cc can be stronger than a 60cc cheapo.

 

[H 2 H]

Welcome to the Jungle :msp_wink:

 

[IthacaMan]

Hey guys I'm new here and thought this looked like a great site so I joined to become a member. I've been running saws since I was 12 years old. I'm not an expert at all. I came here to learn more about my saws, learn about chain pitch, and anything and everything else.

I'm curious to learn about 3/8 low pitch, .325, and 3/8 standard. Just curious about ideal bar lengths for my saws and pitches.

I have
2- MS180's with 14" .050 bars.

2- MS211's with 16" .050 bars

2- MS290's with 20" .063 bars.

These were questions I had when I joined,with a little reading you will have it figured out. In a short time you will be thinking about muffler mods, what squish is all about,and to get a still 660 or a husky 395,and on and on,any ways welcome abord.uttahere2:

 

[B Harrison]

This?

http://www.oregonproducts.com/pro/pdf/maintenance_manual/ms_manual.pdf

I mainly came here to learn from you guys as experts. I've been thinking of getting something a little lighter than my 290, but more powerful than my 211's. I want to make sure I get the right saw and have it set up right. 3/8, 3/8lp, and .325 confuses me and I also don't get how you guys are so smart in knowing, "hey a 20" bar is too much for a 250, run a 16 .325... etc"

I am not sure why you have so many small homeowner saws, but hey your game. My suggestion if your going to buy another saw (it looks like you might like Stihl) is buy a MS261, and MM it, stick an 18" bar on it .325 run a good chisel chain and keep it sharp. You will be in there with less weight than your 290 and probably more real world power too.

I would also recommend you trade out both 180's for a 192, because they are more saw and wicked fun to trim yard trees with. Ohh MM that saw too and you might throw rocks at the 211 (I haven't ever used a 211 so I don't know)

 

[cre10]

I am not sure why you have so many small homeowner saws, but hey your game. My suggestion if your going to buy another saw (it looks like you might like Stihl) is buy a MS261, and MM it, stick an 18" bar on it .325 run a good chisel chain and keep it sharp. You will be in there with less weight than your 290 and probably more real world power too.

I would also recommend you trade out both 180's for a 192, because they are more saw and wicked fun to trim yard trees with. Ohh MM that saw too and you might throw rocks at the 211 (I haven't ever used a 211 so I don't know)

I have the smaller saws because I was busy clearing about 300 acres of CRP getting pulled out for crops. Many of the trees were 1-3" so I cut them and put Tordon on the stumps. I didn't want to carry a huge and or heavy saw on such little stuff. It is cleared off now and I'm beginning to cut a lot more firewood so I came here to learn about bigger saw and tweaks I can do to my saws now to get more power out of them.

I can see getting rid of the 180's, but now for the 192, doing that seems silly when I have the 211's. 211 and 192 look pretty close on specs.

I know most of my saws are "homeowner" grade which is why I'm here. I want to learn what to use, when, and why and also upgrade.

I like the power my 290's have, but wanted a little lighter with that power and possibly something bigger than a 290 too. You guys are pretty cool and the experts so I think I found the right place.

Since the theme here seems to be the bigger the better, here's my Cat 299C

 

[blsnelling]

I would also recommend you trade out both 180's for a 192

Why trade 180s for a top handled 170? That's all they really are.

 

[zogger]

I have the smaller saws because I was busy clearing about 300 acres of CRP getting pulled out for crops. Many of the trees were 1-3" so I cut them and put Tordon on the stumps. I didn't want to carry a huge and or heavy saw on such little stuff. It is cleared off now and I'm beginning to cut a lot more firewood so I came here to learn about bigger saw and tweaks I can do to my saws now to get more power out of them.

I can see getting rid of the 180's, but now for the 192, doing that seems silly when I have the 211's. 211 and 192 look pretty close on specs.

I know most of my saws are "homeowner" grade which is why I'm here. I want to learn what to use, when, and why and also upgrade.

I like the power my 290's have, but wanted a little lighter with that power and possibly something bigger than a 290 too. You guys are pretty cool and the experts so I think I found the right place.



Since the theme here seems to be the bigger the better, here's my Cat 299C

BWAHAHAHAHAHA! Too dang funny!!! That lil lawn mower buggy right up there just put a whole heaping buncha guys here with "more saw" but not much else in their place!

edit: oh ya, saws. You like stihl. Ok, I'll chime in. I don't own one but ran a new stihl 441mtronic. that's what you want man. 21st century kik wood booty saw.

 

[rburg]

I believe you would like the 261 much more than the 290 because of the weight as well as the power as well as the vibs, as well as the air filter. They also respond well to porting.