New MS460 Rescue saw/Pics

[Philbert]

Those photos show it with the decompression valve. Any reason the one I saw did not? Did someone assume that with a 'D' handle (not in that photo) you don't need or want the decomp valve?

Philbert

 

[THALL10326]

I thought those came with a D handle?????

It does, why the pictured saw has a standard handle is odd. With big fireman gloves on that saw will be a pita to start. The big D handle was made for use with fireman wearing those gloves...

You should take it back and make them put the D handle on that saw, part # 1128-195-3401, you'll be glad you did.

 

[THALL10326]

Once again I would like to thank you all for the information.

The saw and RDR chain is only going to be used in a ventilation situation where we may run across a a nail or two or light metal in a roof. The Department also has a STIHL MT400 Quick-cut saw for anything more demanding.
The dealer is also going to look after sharpening of the RDR chain so that is a bonus for us. I'll post an update in the future, when we have used the chain, and let you all know the results.
Well I'm off to work, back up north, so will not be posting for a while. Please feel free to continue the discussion, as when I return, I'll be looking this post up. Take care and keep the wood chips flying!!!
Drew


:greenchainsaw:

He's going to look after your chain as well, hmmmmmmmmm, thats a good deal. Those RDR cutters require a diamond wheel to sharpen them with. Most places it 1.75 per tooth to sharpen that chain because the wheel cost so much and is used very little..

 

[MOE]

That's not the chain your dept wants. Raptor chain has a more solidly mounted cutter that won't fail nearly as quickly, or there is Bullet chain that cuts more slowly but is less of a kickback hazard and has a solid mount for the cutters.

We use the same chain pictured on our dept. It might make it through one roof venting operation. The teeth don't dull but they do break off when they hit nails. Once one breaks off, others go quickly. I pushed the idea of getting bullet chains but it didn't go too far. I think the stihl chains are around $130/ 72 link loop and bullet were around $200 give or take. The bullet chain is .063 ga our bars are .050 so that was another issue to replace 6 bars. We have three rescue 460's and several 044's. I don't like the adustable gaurd. I know it serves a purpose but it's frustrating on a steep pitched roof when you're trying to stay on the roof ladder. You more or less have to be over the cut with the gauge. without, you can reach more. Another issue is that we have lots of firefighters with little or no chainsaw experience. The chain is often run very loose or tight becuase people cant really see or feel it as well with the gauge in place.

 

[THALL10326]

From Stihl's web site....



IMO you have the right saw and chain combo for your application.





It was the RDS chain that was having issues and I believe it is probably the RDS chain that these guys are talking about breaking teeth and such????

I have no personal experience with any of the carbide chains but I have been told by a fireman whose opinion I trust that the RDR is much better chain than the RDS and is also better than the Rapco. I have never heard him talk about the bullet chains and don't know if they ever tried them or not, so?????

The RDR chain is the chain of choice here at the Leesburg fire company, they claimed they have used them all and the RDR out performs the rest. They're big thing is getting it done and done quick, meaning no up on the roof a second longer than they have to be. Best thing about the RDR chain is even if you do snap off a tooth just replace that one tooth. No need to replace the chain. At $355.00 a chain replacing a tooth for 11.00 is a bargin...

 

[THALL10326]

We use the same chain pictured on our dept. It might make it through one roof venting operation. The teeth don't dull but they do break off when they hit nails. Once one breaks off, others go quickly. I pushed the idea of getting bullet chains but it didn't go too far. I think the stihl chains are around $130/ 72 link loop and bullet were around $200 give or take. The bullet chain is .063 ga our bars are .050 so that was another issue to replace 6 bars. We have three rescue 460's and several 044's. I don't like the adustable gaurd. I know it serves a purpose but it's frustrating on a steep pitched roof when you're trying to stay on the roof ladder. You more or less have to be over the cut with the gauge. without, you can reach more. Another issue is that we have lots of firefighters with little or no chainsaw experience. The chain is often run very loose or tight becuase people cant really see or feel it as well with the gauge in place.

The 130.00 chains your referring to are not the RDR chains, that would be the RDS chains. The RDR 20 inch chain lists for $355.00.

 

[J.Walker]

Put it to some wood, let's see some cookies! I know your just dying to try!
You ask me, it's a work of Art! Nice saw!!!!!!!

 

[MOE]

The 130.00 chains your referring to are not the RDR chains, that would be the RDS chains. The RDR 20 inch chain lists for $355.00.

Could be. Unfortunatly at $355, the powers that be would never go for that.

 

[deer slayer]

I don't think they will be making any cookies w/that!! Nice saw looks good. In D.C. we use a cutters edge w/bullet chain (jonsored/husky). Seems to do well, Its the first saw most grab for roof operations. I don't know why they didn't go w/stihl, everything else is from regular chainsaws to cut off's. The bad thing is the saws really don't get maintained as they should and getting chains is like pulling teeth. My take on the guard is that most people are inexperienced, seen a lot of cuts right through rafters, we recently changed everything to 18" bars and most guards stay about 3 to 4" to help prevent such deep cuts.

 

[THALL10326]

Could be. Unfortunatly at $355, the powers that be would never go for that.

Awww thats what they list for. Trust me any good dealer looking out for those that look out for the well being of the county would never charge full list. That chain can be had for way less, I'm talking way way less...

 

[nilzlofgren]

I guess you're supposed to file down the tie strap along with the rakers?

 

[moose42]

I am a full time Engineer at my department. We have a Partner K-12 saw which is nice. I don't care for the cutting blade we have for wood. It works great for concrete and metal. Our vent saw is a Stihl 044 with the bullet chain works fine. After a while the carbide cutters get torn off and it don't cut all that well. We don't have the bar guard on ours because of the weird roof construction we have around here. The town was built when they built Shasta Dam here in Northern California. We call them dam shacks and they were just slapped together with no building codes (or very few). To replace the roof they just built a new one over the old one. Sometimes we need to cut some thick stuff.

Well keep me informed on how the chain works you you. And be safe out there!

P.S. If you need to use the axe to vent, use the flat side, sounds crazy but it works good.

 

[stihl only]

Awww thats what they list for. Trust me any good dealer looking out for those that look out for the well being of the county would never charge full list. That chain can be had for way less, I'm talking way way less...

And that, folks, is a good dealer!!

I do the same with the local VFDs when they need anything. They give freely of their time to help others, so the least I can do is help them the best I can. What I give them is just me not making money, what they give, you can't put a price on!

 

[THALL10326]

And that, folks, is a good dealer!!

I do the same with the local VFDs when they need anything. They give freely of their time to help others, so the least I can do is help them the best I can. What I give them is just me not making money, what they give, you can't put a price on!

I agree , you gotta take care of those that may have to come take care of you or your loved ones in the worst possible conditions.

I got several fire company accounts and none of them pay full price for anything including repairs.They also get to jump ahead of the everyone else far as repairs goes, they need those tools more than Joe needs his trimmer or Bob needs his chainsaw. Those guys do things I wouldn't consider doing myself so I take care of them...

 

[RiverRat2]

Nice saw there. I've sold about 25 of those to the local and near by country fire departments in the past couple of years, they love that saw. Fairfax, one of the largest fire companies in the nation, along with Arlington have those and swear by them.

That saw was designed by the Va Beach fire department and Stihl. They went to Stihl in Va Beach with the ideas of what they wanted and Stihl built it. That has become the standard rescue saw all across the country....

Yeah that baby will flat #### some stuff up,,,, I have one I am about finished with a full used plastic & fresh paint resto on,,,, seems it got a little warm in action during fire service duty!!!!!,,, I'm gonna donate it to the Local VFD as a charitable contribution!!!!!

Hope they never need to use it around my place!!!!!! If ya know what I mean!!!!!!!

as for the rakers/anti kick back followers,,, they can and are commonly modified,,,,, a creative grinding session will make that chain work really Good,,,,for bore cuts or whatever!!!! infact you will need to be a little careful with it!!!!!

 

[THALL10326]

Yeah that baby will flat #### some stuff up,,,, I have one I am about finished with a full used plastic & fresh paint resto on,,,, seems it got a little warm in action during fire service duty!!!!!,,, I'm gonna donate it to the Local VFD as a charitable contribution!!!!!

Hope they never need to use it around my place!!!!!! If ya know what I mean!!!!!!!

as for the rakers/anti kick back followers,,, they can and are commonly modified,,,,, a creative grinding session will make that chain work really Good,,,,for bore cuts or whatever!!!! infact you will need to be a little careful with it!!!!!

Fairfax called me last year with a huge order, almost a 100 thousand dollars for rescue saws, quick cuts, rolls of carbide chain and a bunch of other stuff. They were taking bids to replace over 100 saws they have been using for awhile. I beat every dealer they called and got in tight with the buyer but as the economy tanked the board of supervisors clamped down on the money. Hopefully if things pick up this year I'll get that sale before its overwith. That will be a dooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooosey of a sale for sure.

The boys in the Leesburg Fire Co. have a bunch of those rescue saws and they swear by them, won't use anything else, same goes for Arlington and Fairfax..

 

[AOD]

Last year's 4th of July I got to see a 460R in action after a popcorn wagon caught fire. They must have had problems for some time, it looked like the insulation inside the walls was grease-soaked and when it eventually went it went up good. The fireman cut a hole in the roof and Whoosh! 3 foot flames jump out at him, luckily he was fast on his feet and had protective gear on and wasn't hurt. They destroyed that trailer getting the fire out and trying to prevent it from getting to the propane tanks. When all was said and done they owner was pissed because they wouldn't let him re-open to sell pop and candy.

 

[THALL10326]

Last year's 4th of July I got to see a 460R in action after a popcorn wagon caught fire. They must have had problems for some time, it looked like the insulation inside the walls was grease-soaked and when it eventually went it went up good. The fireman cut a hole in the roof and Whoosh! 3 foot flames jump out at him, luckily he was fast on his feet and had protective gear on and wasn't hurt. They destroyed that trailer getting the fire out and trying to prevent it from getting to the propane tanks. When all was said and done they owner was pissed because they wouldn't let him re-open to sell pop and candy.

LOL, true, they will tear up some stuff going after a fire for sure.

Old guy told me his hay loft caught on fire somehow. He called the fire department. They came and cut a big hole in back of the barn. He said the air hit that fire and within the minutes the whole barn and hay were ashes. He said I thought they were going to put out the fire, not burn down my barn,LOL

The guys in Leesburg are trying to get Stihl to make a inside the house sheetrock saw so they can saw out the ceilings instead of ripping them out. They want something like a pole prunner with a carbide saw blade on it like a skil saw uses. Too date Stihl hasn't built the tool but we shall see..

 

[AOD]

Man, a power sheetrock saw, I bet just as many demo guys would buy it as fire rescue guys, although I'd imagine a fire ax does a number on sheetrock.

I''ve seen Arlington and Fairfax Co. fire dept's in action a couple times, most of those buildings in the city have sprinklers, there's more old derelict buildings in Baltimore. How in the world are those crews supposed to respond with all that freaking traffic? The traffic around NoVA is just insane!

 

[WRW]

The guys in Leesburg are trying to get Stihl to make a inside the house sheetrock saw so they can saw out the ceilings instead of ripping them out. They want something like a pole prunner with a carbide saw blade on it like a skil saw uses. Too date Stihl hasn't built the tool but we shall see..

Why? Done right, it's quicker to rip them out (with no chance of cutting the rafters) and the repair is to just replace the whole panel.