SawTroll
Information Collector
Hopefully they terminate this additional way of designating chain loops as soon as possible, as all it does it to add to the confusion.
New Oregon Narrow Kerf Chain and SpeedCut Guide Bars
- Thread starter Philbert
- Start date
Help Support Arborist Forum:
OldJack
ArboristSite Operative
I've got to give Philbert a like for reporting this mess. Otherwise I'd be scratching my head the next time I go chain shopping.
'Some people' have already sent them unsolicited feedback, via the 'Contact Us' link on their web page . . .
Philbert
And 'someone' from Oregon got back with me!
(EDITED - after posting this I was able to speak directly to this person and they gave me the 'lowdown', so I wanted this info to be accurate)
"The M series chain is a new generation of the G series. We plan to discontinue the G series chain in the coming year as we make the M series available to all retailers. I understand there is not thorough communication explaining this yet. We are developing additional information pieces to clarify the changes."
Apparently, this new 'M' chain has been redesigned with new angles, to increase cutting performance, and they wanted to clearly distinguish it in the retail channels. I don't know what the full designation will be for this chain. Oregon has discontinued/replaced/upgraded chains in the past. I have been pretty happy with the existing 'G'/type 95P chain, so it will be interesting to try.
The 'E' series chain is a full sized 3/8 pitch, .050 gauge (type 72) chain.
"The new M series chain is not certified green label, ANSI low-kickback. Oregon has several saw chains that include the bumper drive link components to help reduce kickback, but do not meet the requirements to certify green label."
ANSI compliance requires very specific performance testing. Apparently, some chains with features like bumper drive links reduce the severity or likelihood of kickback, but not enough to meet the standard. There may also be benefits of a smoother cut on smaller wood.
Oregon traditionally offered reduced-kickback chain in consumer packaging, but thinks that some professional users also like to buy chain at home centers, so this is sort of an experiment for them
Philbert
(EDITED - after posting this I was able to speak directly to this person and they gave me the 'lowdown', so I wanted this info to be accurate)
"The M series chain is a new generation of the G series. We plan to discontinue the G series chain in the coming year as we make the M series available to all retailers. I understand there is not thorough communication explaining this yet. We are developing additional information pieces to clarify the changes."
Apparently, this new 'M' chain has been redesigned with new angles, to increase cutting performance, and they wanted to clearly distinguish it in the retail channels. I don't know what the full designation will be for this chain. Oregon has discontinued/replaced/upgraded chains in the past. I have been pretty happy with the existing 'G'/type 95P chain, so it will be interesting to try.
The 'E' series chain is a full sized 3/8 pitch, .050 gauge (type 72) chain.
"The new M series chain is not certified green label, ANSI low-kickback. Oregon has several saw chains that include the bumper drive link components to help reduce kickback, but do not meet the requirements to certify green label."
ANSI compliance requires very specific performance testing. Apparently, some chains with features like bumper drive links reduce the severity or likelihood of kickback, but not enough to meet the standard. There may also be benefits of a smoother cut on smaller wood.
Oregon traditionally offered reduced-kickback chain in consumer packaging, but thinks that some professional users also like to buy chain at home centers, so this is sort of an experiment for them
Philbert
The 'E' chain may provide an alternative to the Vanguard chain, currently in the 'D' packages for 3/8, .050 chain users at home centers, hardware stores, etc.
Philbert
The new 'M' chain is briefly described in this new product showcase video:
They also mention a new, lighter weight, NK bar.
Philbert
They also mention a new, lighter weight, NK bar.
Philbert
From an Oregon FaceBook post:
"The SpeedCut™ System is the same kerf as the Micro-Lite™ bars and 95VPX chain so they are compatible, however several design improvements have been made to both the chain and bar. The 95TXL chain is faster, sharper, and easier through a reengineered cutter and new grind technology. The bars are stronger, lighter, and longer lasting achieved from a new adhesive bond, aluminum core, redesigned nose, and harder bar rails."
'Faster', 'sharper', and 'easier' cutting chains, along with 'stronger', 'lighter', 'longer lasting' bars with 'harder' rails are hard adjectives to argue with! I can sort of assume what they did with the bar, using an adhesive lamination and aluminum core. Would really like to understand the stuff about the 'reengineered cutter and grind technology': wonder if this means different cutter geometry or angles that can be applied to existing chains, or something unique manufactured into the shape of these cutters. Inquiring minds want to know!
Philbert
"The SpeedCut™ System is the same kerf as the Micro-Lite™ bars and 95VPX chain so they are compatible, however several design improvements have been made to both the chain and bar. The 95TXL chain is faster, sharper, and easier through a reengineered cutter and new grind technology. The bars are stronger, lighter, and longer lasting achieved from a new adhesive bond, aluminum core, redesigned nose, and harder bar rails."
'Faster', 'sharper', and 'easier' cutting chains, along with 'stronger', 'lighter', 'longer lasting' bars with 'harder' rails are hard adjectives to argue with! I can sort of assume what they did with the bar, using an adhesive lamination and aluminum core. Would really like to understand the stuff about the 'reengineered cutter and grind technology': wonder if this means different cutter geometry or angles that can be applied to existing chains, or something unique manufactured into the shape of these cutters. Inquiring minds want to know!
Philbert
I didn't know the meaning of any of the Oregon chain designations! 
I know which chains my saws need by specs and buy accordingly, or I order by Dolmar article number and receive a Dolmar branded Oregon chain.
Buying by specs is becoming my preferred way as it opens doors and enables access to other then OEM brands (even though they are all pretty much Blount now).
I don't care for the numbering system, reading through this thread made my head hurt - rather give me chain specs!
I know which chains my saws need by specs and buy accordingly, or I order by Dolmar article number and receive a Dolmar branded Oregon chain.
Buying by specs is becoming my preferred way as it opens doors and enables access to other then OEM brands (even though they are all pretty much Blount now).
I don't care for the numbering system, reading through this thread made my head hurt - rather give me chain specs!
That's a good way to go if you understand 'pitch', 'gauge', 'drive links', 'cutter type' and 'sequence'. Some people think of chains like the tires on their cars - they just want something that fits.
Oregon Consumer Chain Labeling
S = series 91, 3/8 low profile pitch, .050 gauge chain
R = series 90, 3/8 low profile pitch, narrow kerf, .043 gauge chain
H = series 20 BPX, .325 pitch, .050 gauge chain
J = series 21 BPX, .325 pitch, .058 gauge chain
L = series 22 BPX, .325 pitch, .063 gauge chain
G = series 95V, .325 pitch, narrow kerf, .050 gauge chain
D = series 72V 'Vanguard', 3/8 pitch, .050 gauge chain
Oregon Chain Product Coding
Of course, STIHL, Husqvarna, Carlton, etc., each have their own systems - found on their respective web pages. The codes can be helpful in understanding the feature differences between chains that appear to be similar.
Philbert
Your list ends with D/72 series , what would 3/8" pitch .058" gauge be then?
D/73 ?
Never mind, I'll stick with: 3/8" ; .058" ; 72DL & 115DL ; chisel tooth full comp ...
I am thinking of switching to chisel chain on my Sachs-Dolmar 105 & 108, if available.
They now feature 3/8" LowProfile round tooth safety chain.
I will definitely try and source a PowerSharp starter kit for them!
Those little buggers are awesome saws and I would like to make them more attractive for everyday usage now that I got power-spoiled by my PS-6400 & PS-7900.
Great thread!
D/73 ?
Never mind, I'll stick with: 3/8" ; .058" ; 72DL & 115DL ; chisel tooth full comp ...
I am thinking of switching to chisel chain on my Sachs-Dolmar 105 & 108, if available.
They now feature 3/8" LowProfile round tooth safety chain.
I will definitely try and source a PowerSharp starter kit for them!
Those little buggers are awesome saws and I would like to make them more attractive for everyday usage now that I got power-spoiled by my PS-6400 & PS-7900.
Great thread!
The retail letter-number designations (e.g. 'S56') are only used for most common, consumer chains, likely to be found in home centers, hardware stores, and similar outlets. They cover only a fraction of the chains that Oregon makes and sells, and usually are focused on the types of saws sold in those places.
The list, posted above, is from their website. Other chain sizes, types, etc., are usually sourced through a saw dealer, catalog, etc.
I really like the PowerSharp chain - but that is a different thread!
Philbert
OldJack
ArboristSite Operative
SawTroll
Information Collector
That bar remind me of the Husky TechLite....
It's a pity they didn't make the new chain a chisel, when they were at it!
Update on New SpeedCut Guide Bar
Illustration from the 2016 Oregon Forestry Catalog
http://content.yudu.com/web/y5b2/0A...h/resources/index.htm?referrerUrl=#noRedirect
*Note the addition of a 'debris shield' to the sides of the sprocket bearings, and the lack of an oil hole!* Three versions offered:
Philbert
Illustration from the 2016 Oregon Forestry Catalog
http://content.yudu.com/web/y5b2/0A...h/resources/index.htm?referrerUrl=#noRedirect
*Note the addition of a 'debris shield' to the sides of the sprocket bearings, and the lack of an oil hole!* Three versions offered:
Philbert
Interesting. Wondering what the pros think about a non replaceable tip?
Oregon offers a range of bars (Double Guard, Pro-Am, Pro-lite) at different price points, with 'non-replaceable' nose sprockets. Actually, most of these sprockets are 'replaceable', but usually not done on the least expensive bars.
http://www.oregonproducts.com/pro/products/bars/oregon_bars_main.htm
They are promoting these new bars as 'lightweight' and 'professional'. I am speculating that they decided to beef up the nose sprocket, with better steel, and the 'debris shield', to save weight over a replaceable sprocket nose (RSN).
Whether or not a replacement sprocket will be available for these bars remains to be seen (as does the pricing).
Note that they are offering it in a large radius nose version, which is not found on 'consumer' grade bars, due to increased risk of kick-back.
Philbert
Additional Information on the New SpeedCut Bars
Pretty interesting that they eliminated the nose sprocket lubrication hole on these bars - that has been the focus of lots of threads.
Kind of exciting to have lightweight bars that fit some smaller saws: guys have been asking for these. Will have to see what sizes are available, price points, and how they hold up.
Available Spring - Summer, 2016?
(Quoted from an Oregon Rep - edited for length.)
"These bars use completely new sprocket nose assemblies which are designed to outlast the bar rails. Our lab testing and field testing . . . have confirmed this.
. . . the nose shield is packed with grease at assembly and its purpose is twofold: 1) it keeps the grease in the nose while still allowing the bar and chain oil to enter the nose assembly for continual lubrication and 2) it prevents debris from entering the nose and causing wear on the nose components. So there will no longer be a need to add grease to the nose as long as you are using bar and chain oil.
. . . the new design(s) also feature our LubriTec system which has an angled oil hole at the tail that increases the velocity of the oil that is delivered to the chain and bar for better lubrication.
. . . these bars will eventually replace the Pro-Lite family.
- 'SpeedCut' is a narrow kerf (micro-lite) bar . . . for use . . . on saws up to 55 cc
- 'ControlCut' are standard kerf bars (.050, .058 and .063 gauge) with small nose radius which helps prevent kickback . . .
- 'VersaCut' are standard kerf bars (.050, .058 and .063 gauge) with large nose radius which are suitable for use in a variety of applications."
Philbert
PS *Renamed the thread due to the additional information on these new bars*
Pretty interesting that they eliminated the nose sprocket lubrication hole on these bars - that has been the focus of lots of threads.
Kind of exciting to have lightweight bars that fit some smaller saws: guys have been asking for these. Will have to see what sizes are available, price points, and how they hold up.
Available Spring - Summer, 2016?
(Quoted from an Oregon Rep - edited for length.)
"These bars use completely new sprocket nose assemblies which are designed to outlast the bar rails. Our lab testing and field testing . . . have confirmed this.
. . . the nose shield is packed with grease at assembly and its purpose is twofold: 1) it keeps the grease in the nose while still allowing the bar and chain oil to enter the nose assembly for continual lubrication and 2) it prevents debris from entering the nose and causing wear on the nose components. So there will no longer be a need to add grease to the nose as long as you are using bar and chain oil.
. . . the new design(s) also feature our LubriTec system which has an angled oil hole at the tail that increases the velocity of the oil that is delivered to the chain and bar for better lubrication.
. . . these bars will eventually replace the Pro-Lite family.
- 'SpeedCut' is a narrow kerf (micro-lite) bar . . . for use . . . on saws up to 55 cc
- 'ControlCut' are standard kerf bars (.050, .058 and .063 gauge) with small nose radius which helps prevent kickback . . .
- 'VersaCut' are standard kerf bars (.050, .058 and .063 gauge) with large nose radius which are suitable for use in a variety of applications."
Philbert
PS *Renamed the thread due to the additional information on these new bars*
Philbert, I am wondering one thing, why in the world are they not making the present Microlite bar in 20" and now I see the new version Speedcut is not offered in 20" either.
My brother came by last weekend to show me his new Echo CS-490 that came with a standard Echo I presume Prolite bar and 20LPX chain on it. He knew the saw was going to be at its limits with a 20" bar but thought he needed a 20".
I told him as much and gave him a used 16" Husky branded Microlite bar and a couple 95VP chains for it and told him to use these when he didn't need the 20" reach. He liked the idea of the narrow kerf bar as we know it pulls easier and is better suited to a 50cc saw and likes the semi chisel cutter of the 95VP and is very well suited for the type of sometimes less then clean firewood he cuts.
He liked it so well he tried to get the same setup in 20" from the dealer he bought the saw from and since he had not used the original bar and chain they said he could just swap it. That's when they found out they couldn't get that setup in a 20", only up to 18". I actually new that but forgot about it only being available in 16" and 18".
I just looked at the new catalog you posted and see the 20" setup is not listed in the new Speedcut and matching chain for it. That is strange as this is the exact saw and conditions that the narrow kerf bar was intended for and would be perfect for him.
Also new to me was the K216 bar mount on the new Echo. Not sure what's going on with it. Its basically a K041 mount with a oil hole like the K095 but the oil hole is lower then the K095. For what its worth the old standby Ko41 mount will still work perfectly in place of the new K216 mount..
My brother came by last weekend to show me his new Echo CS-490 that came with a standard Echo I presume Prolite bar and 20LPX chain on it. He knew the saw was going to be at its limits with a 20" bar but thought he needed a 20".
I told him as much and gave him a used 16" Husky branded Microlite bar and a couple 95VP chains for it and told him to use these when he didn't need the 20" reach. He liked the idea of the narrow kerf bar as we know it pulls easier and is better suited to a 50cc saw and likes the semi chisel cutter of the 95VP and is very well suited for the type of sometimes less then clean firewood he cuts.
He liked it so well he tried to get the same setup in 20" from the dealer he bought the saw from and since he had not used the original bar and chain they said he could just swap it. That's when they found out they couldn't get that setup in a 20", only up to 18". I actually new that but forgot about it only being available in 16" and 18".
I just looked at the new catalog you posted and see the 20" setup is not listed in the new Speedcut and matching chain for it. That is strange as this is the exact saw and conditions that the narrow kerf bar was intended for and would be perfect for him.
Also new to me was the K216 bar mount on the new Echo. Not sure what's going on with it. Its basically a K041 mount with a oil hole like the K095 but the oil hole is lower then the K095. For what its worth the old standby Ko41 mount will still work perfectly in place of the new K216 mount..
I can't explain marketing. I have 16 and 20 inch Husqvarna OEM, narrow kerf bars. And I am pretty sure that I have Oregon replacements as well (EDIT: I only have a 16" spare Oregon bar). But they are all several years old - might not be current inventory.
In the 2016 Oregon catalog I see a 20" SpeedCut in a K095 mount (200TXLBK095).
Bailey's also lists a 20" Woodland Pro NK bar ("Replaces Oregon Part Number 200MLBK095"). They don't list the Echo CS-490 in their bar selector.
Philbert
Similar threads
