New Oregon Narrow Kerf Chain and SpeedCut Guide Bars

[Terry Syd]

Assuming the picture is actually the new NK chain, it looks like they may have tightened up the bend in the cutter. In other words, they have made the cutter more like the Carlton NK chain. The old VP95 chain has a bend that is identical to standard .325.

If the bend is tighter (smaller radius) then is probably going to be great chain. I like the way the Carlton NK chain can cut, but the chrome just isn't up to handling the Ozzie hardwood like the Oregon VP95.

I wonder how many blokes might try one of those new 20" bar and chains on a Dolmar 6100. I'd bet that would be a fast and light combination for that saw. As far as the up to 55cc recommendations, the chain can handle much more power than 55cc, it has the same drive links as the standard .325. In fact, some of the racers in Oz use the NK chassis for racing on 77cc piped saws. They remove the NK cutters and put standard .325 chisel cutters on the chain - lightweight chain without the 'dog boning' and 'rivet thinning'.

 

[Franny K]

I have four bars in this .325 NK. Two made in Norway Husky bars 56 and 64 drive links and one 72 drive link one I believe is Oregon with pro on it in some manner. I do not recall if these come in two grades. I kind of think they did and if so making comparisons need state which one they are stronger than. Of those 3 they all have 10 tooth noses and appear to me to be made of the same component sheet stock for 3/8 lp. I got a universal mount one from Baileys in a bar chain combination and that claimed to have a 10 tooth nose but I keep getting 11 when I count. The bar thickness and height are probably why offering "20" inch bars is beyond the safety comfort zone for Oregon.

Taking the chain apart and measuring the diameter that goes into the tie straps and the diameter of the larger surface that pivots in the drive link to me are at the top of the list for size of saw is recommended. Take this chain apart and measure, then do Oregon 91 and 20 series and Stihl Picco 63 class and check. If I recall one of those measurements wasn't much more than the Stihl picco. The tie strap can be measured in various ways as well. The picco has less and lighter drive links if you really are super weight conscious and the cutters are sharpened as far as you do is the cause to toss the chain to scrap.

How much weight can be trimmed off a 10 tooth nose 0.325x0.050 bar's inner laminate and how does that market shrink as price is adjusted? I note the new oil distributing features. Didn't they also spec this chain/bar/cutting system as not suitable for storm clean up?

 

[Modifiedmark]

I can't explain marketing. I have 16 and 20 inch Husqvarna OEM, narrow kerf bars. And I am pretty sure that I have Oregon replacements as well. But they are all several years old - might not be current inventory.

In the 2016 Oregon catalog I see a 20" SpeedCut in a K095 mount (200TXLBK095).

Bailey's also lists a 20" Woodland Pro NK bar ("Replaces Oregon Part Number 200MLBK095"). They don't list the Echo CS-490 in their bar selector.

Philbert

Yeah I know your not in charge of marketing, I was on a bit of a rant at the time and was hoping you knew something that I didn't.

If they are making the speedcut bar in 20" for the small Husky mount, that is the first time that I have seen Oregon list a 20" .325 NK bar period.

I have the big Oregon books here going back quite a few years and have not seen a 20" NK listed even under the Husky apps. They go from like 13" to 18".

I have to ask, you say you have a OEM 20" NK bar? What saw did it come on? And no insult intended but your positive it is a NK bar? I have measured the bar width before on them and there is not much difference really..

I know OEM is OEM but most the time Oregon or Windsor always had a bar to fit it. That said, I seen very little support over the years in listings for example the Husky 41 that came with .325 NK bars and chains, I still never seen the bar mount that come on that saw listed either. It looked like the new 216 Echo mount but was just a little bit different and of course like the Echo 216 it could be replaced with a K041 mount perfectly.

Like I said, I sure don't understand why Oregon never listed and apparently still don't (except the small Husky mount you mentioned) list a 20" NK bar.

I guess I will check out the Woodland pro 20 bar, if they come in a A041 mount, that will work fine on the new Echo and it could be used with the 95VP chain or the new chain Oregon is listing. This would be the ticket for my brothers saw.

 

[Modifiedmark]

Alright I dug around that new Oregon catalog through the bar and chain application charts.

It appears the new TXL bar is only available in the small Husky K095 mount. What in the world is going on with that? No listings for anything else.

They only list the 20" version on certain saws, one being the Husky top handle saws... Go figure that.

Phil if your looking for a job, go apply with Oregon Forestry, and I'll be a reference for you. It's obvious they need someone with a clue as to what's going on.

The other thing is Baileys selector guide isn't any better. It list the NK 20" bar for the Echo ok, but it is a universal type mount and says it replaces the K095 mount. The listings under fitment don't list basically anything that isn't K095 even though it appears it will fit K041 applications as well.

Looking up bars for say a Poulan Pro 295 they list only high priced Cannon bars..

Looks like they need to hire someone with a clue as well.

 

[Philbert]

I have to ask, you say you have a OEM 20" NK bar? What saw did it come on? And no insult intended but your positive it is a NK bar?

No offense taken. There are lots of variations, and it's easy to screw up.

The OEM bar came on my Husqvarna 353. I remember thinking that it was longer than I wanted, but it was the only way that that saw was offered from that seller. So I bought a 16" bar as well.

The bar is stamped:
SN A 20/50 050/1 3 @
325 78DL 106896 CY
MADE IN CANADA

(where the '@' is the 'Micro-Lite symbol)

Phil if your looking for a job, go apply with Oregon Forestry, and I'll be a reference for you.

Sounds like a deal!

Philbert

 

[Modifiedmark]

Yep, that is the same symbol that was on the 41 I had in here the other day with its basically one off style bar as well.

Doing some more digging I see that Oregon did list a 20" Microlite bar for your 353 in my 07 Oregon catalog. I don't have a 08 version but it was not listed in the 09 catalog, so they surely didn't carry it for very long.

 

[Terry Syd]

My 20" Husky NK bar takes 80 drive links. I got it from Bailey's some years ago.

 

[Philbert]

Checked my 'inventory': looks like I have a spare 16" Oregon 'Pro-Lite' NK bar for my saw, but not a 20". Hard to keep track.

Philbert

 

[Franny K]

The other thing is Baileys selector guide isn't any better. It list the NK 20" bar for the Echo ok, but it is a universal type mount and says it replaces the K095 mount. The listings under fitment don't list basically anything that isn't K095 even though it appears it will fit K041 applications as well.

I got a universal mount NK bar from Baileys and use it on 3005 Stihl mount I guess that is 074 Oregon. It has two oil input spots and two adjuster spots. All of those are connected to the bar slot hence (memory here) there is a good chance the oil will escape somewhere if the buyer doesn't close off some of them. Even a wad of paper towel seems to work good enough for an outing. Perhaps folks expect too much from universal and that costs them man hours with frustrated customers.

 

[SawTroll]

.....

I just looked at the new catalog you posted and see the 20" setup is not listed in the new Speedcut and matching chain for it. That is strange as this is the exact saw and conditions that the narrow kerf bar was intended for and would be perfect for him.

.....

Husky offers NK (Pixel) bars in 20", but those do of course have the k095 mount.

 

[SawTroll]

I got a universal mount NK bar from Baileys and use it on 3005 Stihl mount I guess that is 074 Oregon. It has two oil input spots and two adjuster spots. All of those are connected to the bar slot hence (memory here) there is a good chance the oil will escape somewhere if the buyer doesn't close off some of them. Even a wad of paper towel seems to work good enough for an outing. Perhaps folks expect too much from universal and that costs them man hours with frustrated customers.

That is very likely, as it has been reported to be an issue with the Cannon C1 mount (combo Stihl 3005/K095/Ko41).

 

[SawTroll]

My 20" Husky NK bar takes 80 drive links. I got it from Bailey's some years ago.

That's what they list here as well.

 

[Philbert]

My 20" Husky NK bar takes 80 drive links. I got it from Bailey's some years ago.

That's what they list here as well.

Mine takes 78 drive links (see model number in Post #45, above). Maybe a different nose radius?

Philbert

 

[SawTroll]

Mine takes 78 drive links (see model number in Post #45, above). Maybe a different nose radius?

Philbert

I believe it was about making the bars closer to a true 20" - but I'm not sure.

With a larger nose, bar manufacturers usually compensate by making the bar slightly shorter, to keep the dl count the same.

 

[Modifiedmark]

Husky offers NK (Pixel) bars in 20", but those do of course have the k095 mount.

In that part of my quote you posted I was actually referring to the Echo K216 or K041 mount.

I kinda figured after looking today and seeing Oregon quit listing the K095 mount in 20" NK that it would have to be a OEM item.

I did talk to my brother today and he has been using the 16" micro lite bar with the 95vp chain that I gave him and he was telling me how he really liked that combination. He said it really rips and the chain stays sharp a long time compared to the full chisel chain he had been using on his other saw. He just wishes for that setup in 20". He may end up trying that Woodland pro 20" NK bar but I told him to stay away from that Carlton chain.

 

[Terry Syd]

Mine takes 78 drive links (see model number in Post #45, above). Maybe a different nose radius?

I just checked my 20" bar and it has 10 teeth on the nose sprocket, the same as the smaller bars. The difference is in the thickness (as opposed to width), the bar has more 'belly' than the other 10 teeth bars.

I found the standard NK bars can go into resonance in some wood cutting situations, however this 20" bar, although it is longer, does not have the resonance problem. If a bar does go into resonance (vibrating back and forth) it will open up the kerf, this bar keeps the kerf nice and tight. It has been a great bar, but it definitely needs the grease hole for the sprocket. If I get lazy and fail to grease it often, it will pick up sawdust/chips between the sprocket and bar.

I was concerned about bar wear, but I've been using it on a modded 64cc 029 for a couple of years and it hasn't worn as much as I thought it would. I should be able to get another 3-5 years out of it, but then I'm not a commercial cutter, just a 68 year old firewood hack who likes a nice light saw that gets the job done quickly.

The Carlton/Woodland Pro chain probably will last in softwood, but the stuff I cut gives it a hammering. One other problem with the Carlton chain is the heel of the cutter. The heel comes to a sharper point and creates a greater loading on the bar rail. I noticed increased bar wear when using the Carlton chain. The VP95 chain has a broader heel and spreads the force over a larger area.

This new Oregon chain looks like it may incorporated all the good points of both chains. However, I'll wait to see it in the field. I remember when Oregon came out with the 95VPX chain and claimed it was 15% faster - total BS, it didn't cut any faster.

The same applies to the new bar. Supposedly 20% lighter (than WHAT?). Crikey, my laminated bar is already nice and light and to trim it back another 20% would take some serious work and material by a team at NASA.

If someone gets one of these bar and chains, I'd love to see some pictures and results - it could be a game changer.

 

[Philbert]

It has been a great bar, but it definitely needs the grease hole for the sprocket.

Of course, most STIHL bars have the discs on either side of the nose sprocket, and no grease hole.

One other problem with the Carlton chain is the heel of the cutter. The heel comes to a sharper point and creates a greater loading on the bar rail. I noticed increased bar wear when using the Carlton chain. The VP95 chain has a broader heel and spreads the force over a larger area.

Newer chains have the clipped cutter heels to reduce vibration ('low-vibe' or 'comfort' chain). Apparently the slap-slap-slapping of the cutters as they tip back adds up when done 600-700 times per second. I have always thought of this as vibration transferred to the user, but you make a good point about them hammering the bar rails too.

Supposedly 20% lighter (than WHAT?). Crikey, my laminated bar is already nice and light and to trim it back another 20% would take some serious work and material by a team at NASA.

I am assuming 20% lighter than a standard, laminated bar. But they did say that these will be replacing their 'Pro-Lite' series, so it could be compared to those. Normally I think of lightweight primarily for longer bars, where the ounces make more of a difference when leveraged out at 28 inches, plus. But lighter weight might also be an advantage for top handled saws, or allow a longer bar to balance well.

One of their comments related to an 'adhesive bond'. I know that there are structural adhesives used even in aircraft assembly (per your NASA reference), but I don't think that that would reduce weight over spot welds. It might contribute to a stiffer bar.

. . . it could be a game changer.

I am looking for an incremental improvement.

Philbert

 

[Terry Syd]

I am looking for an incremental improvement.

You're probably right, but if all the hype comes true, then we could have a faster cutting NK chain on a stronger bar with HARDER rails. There's a potential for a lot of guys to start using such a combination to speed up their cutting with a nicer/quicker handling saw.

 

[CR888]

Like Terry, l too would love to see pics of their new chain and bars. Very interesting post about how different chains wear bars and drive tangs. l find Oregon 050 tangs get sharp and pointy very quickly. l also notice stihl .063 tangs keep shape longer through the life of the chain. l file the my standard 3\8 drive tangs with a round file making them wide again not pointy. l have some .043 oregon nk semi chisel that really performs well. Small cutters but smooth and fast which is what you need on a polesaw.

 

[SawTroll]

In that part of my quote you posted I was actually referring to the Echo K216 or K041 mount.

I kinda figured after looking today and seeing Oregon quit listing the K095 mount in 20" NK that it would have to be a OEM item.

I did talk to my brother today and he has been using the 16" micro lite bar with the 95vp chain that I gave him and he was telling me how he really liked that combination. He said it really rips and the chain stays sharp a long time compared to the full chisel chain he had been using on his other saw. He just wishes for that setup in 20". He may end up trying that Woodland pro 20" NK bar but I told him to stay away from that Carlton chain.

Yes, that's why I specified that the Husky bars are K095. It should be possible to adapt them, as they are K-tail bars?

I suspect that a 20" bar isn't a good idea on an Echo 490 - but it will of course work.