I didn't write it.
New to Me CS-2511t
- Thread starter Vincent Vega
- Start date
Help Support Arborist Forum:
If you have a Mityvac you can test for leaking seals but that will entail sealing off the exhaust port and intake port as well and seeing as you already have the jug off , I'd just replace it and the piston. I doubt you have an air leak anyway, the saw isn't that old and the Japanese use quality crank seals anyway. Hell, my 45+ year old Stihl 028 I bought when I was a kid, the crank seals don't leak at all. Just be sure to use a torque wrench when putting it back together. HF (Harbor Freight) has a nice inch pound clicker for under 20 bucks. I'd loan you my Snap-On inch pound dial torque wrench but I might not get it back and it wasn't cheap. While you are on their website, check out the muffler as well (if you do have a circular cat inside). If not, just remove the inner baffle on the outside of the muffler and clean up the director plate on top. Mine was a bit ragged from where it was stamped, yours may not be, don't know. I little bit of cleaning it up will go a long way towards better exhaust gas flow. I used a air powered die grinder but a Dremel works fine as well. Be sure to re-install the spark arrestor screen as well (if you use Red Armor) because the Red Armor don't produce carbon, least in my experience it don't). Far as the old cylinder and piston, it becomes a paper weight. I use either Muratic acid or Easy Off oven cleaner to remove stuck on aluminum but you are already through the plating and nothing will bring it back to where the ring will seal properly so, just replace the jug and piston as it's a cheap date anyway.
I've had a ton of experience with stuck pistons and aluminum transfer on cylinder walls as I use to race snowmobiles and with racing sleds you always run them as lean as possible for maximum power or you don't win drag races. I used to drag race a 1000cc Thundercat when I was much younger (and dumber). lol I spent a ton of time rebuilding snowmachine engines back then. My advice is just replace the piston and jug and make sure the end gap on the ring is within spec. If you cannot find the spec, any Echo dealer can tell you what it is and make sure when you install the ring that it aligns with the insert on the piston.
I remember one time I was at a drag race in Cochrane, Ontario and blew a hole in the bottom half of my T'cat block and had to buy an almost complete engine to get it running again. That was a long and expensive trip for me. It not only seized but tossed a rod as well. I trailered it back here to the States as the cost of doing it up there was prohibitive even though I was good friends with the AC dealer there. He said to me, 'I never saw anyone put a hole in the lower case' but I did and when we took it apart in his shop, the engine was basically toast. You always run them on the ragged edge of lean for maximum power. On a wide open lake I could top 150 mph anytime. 150 on a sled, 3" off the ground is insane. I'm not insane anymore, I'm old.
They are good saws in my opinion and easily worth a new piston and jug. Compare them to say a Stihl top handle professional arborist saw price wise and you'll quickly understand what I mean. I like mine, it's light, starts on the first or second pull every time (wish my Timber Bear started that easily) and it's a joy to use. I don't get up in trees anymore, it's all ground work and mine basically does limb cutting on the ground from wind damage (and we have that from the wind last night). Mine came sans any bucking spikes (and if you want a set, I have a set in the shop) if you want them, let me know. I don't need them at all.
I've had a ton of experience with stuck pistons and aluminum transfer on cylinder walls as I use to race snowmobiles and with racing sleds you always run them as lean as possible for maximum power or you don't win drag races. I used to drag race a 1000cc Thundercat when I was much younger (and dumber). lol I spent a ton of time rebuilding snowmachine engines back then. My advice is just replace the piston and jug and make sure the end gap on the ring is within spec. If you cannot find the spec, any Echo dealer can tell you what it is and make sure when you install the ring that it aligns with the insert on the piston.
I remember one time I was at a drag race in Cochrane, Ontario and blew a hole in the bottom half of my T'cat block and had to buy an almost complete engine to get it running again. That was a long and expensive trip for me. It not only seized but tossed a rod as well. I trailered it back here to the States as the cost of doing it up there was prohibitive even though I was good friends with the AC dealer there. He said to me, 'I never saw anyone put a hole in the lower case' but I did and when we took it apart in his shop, the engine was basically toast. You always run them on the ragged edge of lean for maximum power. On a wide open lake I could top 150 mph anytime. 150 on a sled, 3" off the ground is insane. I'm not insane anymore, I'm old.
They are good saws in my opinion and easily worth a new piston and jug. Compare them to say a Stihl top handle professional arborist saw price wise and you'll quickly understand what I mean. I like mine, it's light, starts on the first or second pull every time (wish my Timber Bear started that easily) and it's a joy to use. I don't get up in trees anymore, it's all ground work and mine basically does limb cutting on the ground from wind damage (and we have that from the wind last night). Mine came sans any bucking spikes (and if you want a set, I have a set in the shop) if you want them, let me know. I don't need them at all.
Vincent Vega
ArboristSite Lurker
I reached out to the seller of the saw and found out that they were not the original owner, they had actually bought the saw off of a tree guy. They did not know that the saw had these issues and refunded me the cost of a new piston and cylinder. I am incredibly impressed by this seller and their willingness to make it right. I figured for sure I was just SOL.
So with that in mind, I am going to purchase the whole assembly and drop it in. Are there any other gaskets or consumables that it would make sense to replace while the saw is completely dismantled? I'm going to buy new oil and fuel caps, the ones on the saw have seen a lot of sunlight.
Here are some photos of the muffler. I don't think it has a catalytic converter. The spark arrestor was full of carbon, but I was able to clean it all off. Guessing the muffler may have a good bit of carbon build up in it. I shot some compressed air through it.
So with that in mind, I am going to purchase the whole assembly and drop it in. Are there any other gaskets or consumables that it would make sense to replace while the saw is completely dismantled? I'm going to buy new oil and fuel caps, the ones on the saw have seen a lot of sunlight.
Here are some photos of the muffler. I don't think it has a catalytic converter. The spark arrestor was full of carbon, but I was able to clean it all off. Guessing the muffler may have a good bit of carbon build up in it. I shot some compressed air through it.
Take the screen and heat it with a propane torch until dull red and then grab a pair of pliers and shake it and that will remove the carbon. Far as the muffler, soak it with Seafoam and let it sit for an hour and then blow it out. That will loosen any carbon and then you can use compressed air to clean it out. When you take the top baffle and the screen off, you'll be able to see if the Cat is inside, only way. If it is, will be welded to the second inner wall of the muff and is almost impossible to remove without ruining the muff and the seal around the outside of the muff is really almost impossible to get around and bend out without destroying the muff which I why I just replaced mine with the non-cat muff and Echo sells them as well.
The mufflers like to carbon up. Removing the screen might help
Echo Red Armor cures that issue and the screen should be left in if the saw is to be used on public land.
Vincent Vega
ArboristSite Lurker
Replacement parts have arrived. Is there anything in particular I need to do for breaking in the new engine?
I typically run canned fuel, either Trufuel 50:1 or VP Multi Mix 40:1/50:1.
I typically run canned fuel, either Trufuel 50:1 or VP Multi Mix 40:1/50:1.
Abbeville TSI
ArboristSite Operative
Try using Red Armor mixing oil or canned Red Armor fuel.
Rodger_Dodger
New Member
Yeah, the spec is below 175 psi. It’s 150 psi according to the service manual. Page 3, section 2-1.
I agree. Around here Echo dealers seem to be hit or miss, mostly miss, but that’s not a problem when affordable parts are available online.
I can’t seem to find the post that was the original reason for replying to this thread, it was in regards to whomever said they were adding Stabil on top of Red Armor oil. That’s unnecessary as Red Armor, both the canned pre-mix and the oil, already have a fuel stabilizer added. That’s one of several reasons I use it. It’s high, but when you consider the additional additives it’s not that expensive. In my opinion it’s like having an FD rated oil with “Seafoam” and “Stabil” included, all in one jug. Red-Armor mixed with fresh ethanol free fuel and you’re set.
I understand your reasoning.
I can't say that I read that post you referenced though. But I have done likewise and seen posts and lost track where I saw em too.
Rodger_Dodger
New Member
Apparently that’s what happened, because I went back and read through the whole thread and couldn’t find that post. Must have been in another thread or site, too many open tabs.
See that's way closer to what I was thinking but some guys know everything.
Meh. I said 180 because that’s what they all are. Doesn’t mean I know everything.
You said 75% of 150. So 112? Lol
Vincent Vega
ArboristSite Lurker
In for a penny in for a pound as they say...
The Mityvac pressure and vacuum tester arrived. My first pressure and vacuum test on the cylinder showed I had a gradual leak, losing about 1 psi per 30 seconds. After hunting around with some soapy water and finding no leaks, I tightened the carburetor and muffler plugs and was able to get it to hold steady! The service manual did not talk about piston positioning, so I ran my tests at both TDC and BDC with the same results.
The plastic oil tank would not hold pressure, so I went hunting and found a hole - it's at one of the starter cover screws. The plan is to degrease the oil tank (acetone?) and see if some JB weld will patch the hole up.
The service manual says the fuel tank should hold 1.4 psi, when I overpressurized it, say to 5 psi, it would bleed off the pressure but always stop around 1.4 psi. Is that functioning correctly? Or do I have a leak somewhere?
My final item in this rebuild, a DTI TT-20K tachometer, should be arriving today! The JB weld will have to cure for 24 hours, so tomorrow I may get to actually fire this saw up. Curious to see what the new compression values will be.
For initial carburetor settings, I was planning on following this snippet from the service manual. L and H mixture screws (with limiter caps in place) turned fully counterclockwise and the 100 seconds of alternating idle (5 seconds) and WOT (5 seconds). Will this procedure be ok for a new cylinder and piston? The break in posts I've read recommend everything from 30 minutes of idling to just running the saw as you will use it.
The Mityvac pressure and vacuum tester arrived. My first pressure and vacuum test on the cylinder showed I had a gradual leak, losing about 1 psi per 30 seconds. After hunting around with some soapy water and finding no leaks, I tightened the carburetor and muffler plugs and was able to get it to hold steady! The service manual did not talk about piston positioning, so I ran my tests at both TDC and BDC with the same results.
The plastic oil tank would not hold pressure, so I went hunting and found a hole - it's at one of the starter cover screws. The plan is to degrease the oil tank (acetone?) and see if some JB weld will patch the hole up.
The service manual says the fuel tank should hold 1.4 psi, when I overpressurized it, say to 5 psi, it would bleed off the pressure but always stop around 1.4 psi. Is that functioning correctly? Or do I have a leak somewhere?
My final item in this rebuild, a DTI TT-20K tachometer, should be arriving today! The JB weld will have to cure for 24 hours, so tomorrow I may get to actually fire this saw up. Curious to see what the new compression values will be.
For initial carburetor settings, I was planning on following this snippet from the service manual. L and H mixture screws (with limiter caps in place) turned fully counterclockwise and the 100 seconds of alternating idle (5 seconds) and WOT (5 seconds). Will this procedure be ok for a new cylinder and piston? The break in posts I've read recommend everything from 30 minutes of idling to just running the saw as you will use it.
On the piston positioning, it’s conventional to turn the engine over slowly to check for varying leaks. What you did works as well.
As far as tuning, it needs to be done in a log on the 2511. You’ll likely need to remove the limiters to see a difference in running characteristics for the H side. If memory serves correctly, the H jet setting is 2-3 turns out so the 1/2 turn allowed by the limiters isn’t going to net you much of a difference. You’ll likely find you’ll need to run it rich in a log and lean it out 1/4 turn at a time until it cleans up and runs well
Let that JB dry for a good few days or more, and it wouldnt hurt to put 2 layers on it.
I accept your apology in the spirit with which it was offered.
180 is stock. 150 is likely the service limit.
Your arrogance is showing. And I don’t really see a reason for an apology.
What’s it to you anyway? I’m just trying to help a fella get his saw running
Edit much?
Vincent Vega
ArboristSite Lurker
Patched up the oil tank last night. Used the same idea posted here about fixing holes in magnesium cases, by drilling and tapping the hole in the plastic tank and then threading a bolt in. May try and pressure test the oil tank on Sunday. Not a big deal to wait a few more days if needed, but antsy to fire this saw up and see where I'm at.
Good to know about turning the engine over. Thank you for that tip.
I am picking up a larger diameter mesquite log that I plan on using to tune this saw with. I will remove the limiter caps, noting the position they were in. The service manual shows L mixture at 2 3/4 turns, and H mixture at 1 3/4 for initial settings with limiter caps pulled. Another CS-2511t tuning thread says they found success at L at 3 1/4 and H at 2. Properly tuned it should four stroke out of the cut and clean up under load?
Good to know about turning the engine over. Thank you for that tip.
I am picking up a larger diameter mesquite log that I plan on using to tune this saw with. I will remove the limiter caps, noting the position they were in. The service manual shows L mixture at 2 3/4 turns, and H mixture at 1 3/4 for initial settings with limiter caps pulled. Another CS-2511t tuning thread says they found success at L at 3 1/4 and H at 2. Properly tuned it should four stroke out of the cut and clean up under load?
Make several cuts first so that the engine is hot. It should clean up under load and four stroke when you lift
