New to wood burning

[Fyrebug]

Dont have much to add but to recap, Elbows and horizontals are bad. If you elbow use 2 45d elbows rather than 1 90d. Elbow 45d out at least 18" - 24" above the stove so heat can build some velocity to overcome the elbow. Use double wall black pipe if you can, it'll preserve more heat for draft.

With all the restrictions build in add another 3 or 4 ft of chimney and get a roof brace for it.

If your budget is tight why the Napoleon? There are other brands that are just as good if not better for less money. Unless you got a great deal.

Creosote is not just green wood. Creosote is a byproduct of moisture and smoke. Even with 0% wood moisture you can still have creosote. Small smouldering fires and indoor/outdoor moisture level can bring creosote buildup to dangerous level. If you have a well insulated house and the stove will be going in a smallish room where it will be difficult to move the warm air around, I would suggest a smaller stove. Better get a smaller stove to burn hot & clean than a large one with smouldering fires.

 

[Treemoss]

Dont have much to add but to recap, Elbows and horizontals are bad. If you elbow use 2 45d elbows rather than 1 90d. Elbow 45d out at least 18" - 24" above the stove so heat can build some velocity to overcome the elbow. Use double wall black pipe if you can, it'll preserve more heat for draft.

With all the restrictions build in add another 3 or 4 ft of chimney and get a roof brace for it.

If your budget is tight why the Napoleon? There are other brands that are just as good if not better for less money. Unless you got a great deal.


Creosote is not just green wood. Creosote is a byproduct of moisture and smoke. Even with 0% wood moisture you can still have creosote. Small smouldering fires and indoor/outdoor moisture level can bring creosote buildup to dangerous level. If you have a well insulated house and the stove will be going in a smallish room where it will be difficult to move the warm air around, I would suggest a smaller stove. Better get a smaller stove to burn hot & clean than a large one with smouldering fires.

Thank you, I could ask the chimney sweep installer about the 45° angles instead of the 90. The installer said he will add an additional Four foot pipe on top for better draft. The inside will have double insulated black pipe so hopefully that would help. I'm just thinking this might be a bad idea that I'm going to have problems with my whole life.
This is what my install on my stove says.
For installation of your chimney connector, the following recommendations may be useful.
• The chimney connector must be short and straight. For optimum performance it is recommended that
all horizontal runs have a minimum 1/4” rise per foot, with the upper end of the section toward the
chimney.
• To insure a good draft, the total horizontal length of the connector should never exceed 8’ to 10’. In
the case of vertical installation, the total length of the connector can be longer and connected without
problem to the chimney at the ceiling level.
• There should never be more than two 90° elbows in the entire connector and chimney system. Never
start with a 90° elbow. Always go up vertically for at least 2 feet from the flue collar before using a 90°
elbow.
So far as what my stove says about the installation my setup should work is this true or not.

 

[zogger]

Thank you, I could ask the chimney sweep installer about the 45° angles instead of the 90. The installer said he will add an additional Four foot pipe on top for better draft. The inside will have double insulated black pipe so hopefully that would help. I'm just thinking this might be a bad idea that I'm going to have problems with my whole life.
This is what my install on my stove says.
For installation of your chimney connector, the following recommendations may be useful.
• The chimney connector must be short and straight. For optimum performance it is recommended that
all horizontal runs have a minimum 1/4” rise per foot, with the upper end of the section toward the
chimney.
• To insure a good draft, the total horizontal length of the connector should never exceed 8’ to 10’. In
the case of vertical installation, the total length of the connector can be longer and connected without
problem to the chimney at the ceiling level.
• There should never be more than two 90° elbows in the entire connector and chimney system. Never
start with a 90° elbow. Always go up vertically for at least 2 feet from the flue collar before using a 90°
elbow.
So far as what my stove says about the installation my setup should work is this true or not.

If you are inside parameters already, add the additional vertical, and switch to 45s instead of 90s and adjust accordingly..you are inside functionality parameters still.

Seems like it should work fine.

 

[huntindog1]

Make sure you have good dry wood , go buy you a moisture meter from lowes for $30 it will save you alot of head aches.

New EPA stoves are basically Smoke burners. The secondary air ignites the smoke up in the top of the stove and burns it like a gas.

Over 20% moisture in your wood will cool the temps in the top of the stove where the secondary burning goes on and the smoke will not burn.

Make sure you get good dry seasoned wood now as it is most likely already hard to find. Make sure you test it before you buy it or you wont be able to use it this winterif its to much moisture.

These stoves have insulated fire boxes and a baffle board up top that is insulated to help build the heat up in the fire box and maintain that heat. As these stoves use very little air flow thru the box. These stoves wont burn well with the door cracked as it flushes the heat you need in the fire box up the flue. The design of these stoves is all about building the heat up so your burning the smoke in the top up around the secondary air tubes or some stoves have a secondary air baffle.

If your stove is a little large you might experiment with adding in some extra fire brick up one of the sides inside the firebox this will make you fire box smaller. As loading in small loads of wood in a larger fire box leaves alot of open space. These stoves are designed to work in cycles from full loaded firebox to full loaded fire box.

What a partial load in these new stoves does it leaves to much open space in the stove so its harder to get the stoves heat up with open space in the fire box.

By loading full loads there is only a small area up in the top of the stoves thats left open this small are that is left makes for like a very small burn chamber thats left to heat up. This small space will heat up quickly and with the insulated firebox secondary ignition of the smoke gases start up much quicker in that small space. Once the secondary burning of smoke gases start you have your self a smoke burner and you get an instant boost in heat inside the stove as burning the smoke gases heat things up alot faster. But you got to get to that point of secondary ignition. THe quicker you can do that the better as then you can more quickly get your air turned back down on your EPA stove and not have to burn alot of the main wood in the stove trying to get temps up high enough for secondary light off in the top of the stove around the burn tubes. Its all about build that heat up and getting it built up quickly so as not to have to use up all the main wood load thats needed for an all night burn. Thats why good kindling is good to get the heat built up quick.

Look up info on top down fire starting as what I just explained is why top down fire starting is used.

 

[Treemoss]

If you are inside parameters already, add the additional vertical, and switch to 45s instead of 90s and adjust accordingly..you are inside functionality parameters still.

Seems like it should work fine.

This is going to be my setup,

 

[Fyrebug]

This is going to be my setup,

My only concern is with your horizontal lenght. If there are any drafting problems it will show on start up. You may have a couple of options open to you.

1) Get a stove with a bypass damper. Such as the Drolet Myriad Drolet Myriad High-Efficiency Wood Stove — 85,000 BTU, Model# DB03050 | Wood Stoves| Northern Tool + Equipment Basically, it's a side handle that opens the flue directly so your chimney warms up faster. Once that's done you can close the damper to engage the secondaries.

2) and/or you could get one of those: Draw Collar "No More Smoke Filled Rooms" - Home it basically warms up the chimney prior to starting a fire.

All the best and let us know how it goes.

 

[Treemoss]

Draw Collar "No More Smoke Filled Rooms" - Home it basically warms up the chimney prior to starting a fire.

All the best and let us know how it goes.[/QUOTE]

That draw collar looks like it could help.

 

[Treemoss]

My only concern is with your horizontal lenght. If there are any drafting problems it will show on start up. You may have a couple of options open to you.

1) Get a stove with a bypass damper. Such as the Drolet Myriad Drolet Myriad High-Efficiency Wood Stove — 85,000 BTU, Model# DB03050 | Wood Stoves| Northern Tool + Equipment Basically, it's a side handle that opens the flue directly so your chimney warms up faster. Once that's done you can close the damper to engage the secondaries.

2) and/or you could get one of those: Draw Collar "No More Smoke Filled Rooms" - Home it basically warms up the chimney prior to starting a fire.

All the best and let us know how it goes.

Do you think i will have good draft if I run the stove with the air closed way down, But have the stove hot enough with the secondary air tubes burning up the smoke. I really would like to know if anyone out there has a 3 to 4 foot horizontal run and offsets and has any problems with draft or a 5 gallon bucket of Creosote a month. Let's just say that I have five year old garage kept seasoned hard wood or the perfect fuel say. Will I still have draft problems and creosote buildup because of my offsets and horizontal run.

 

[Fyrebug]

Do you think i will have good draft if I run the stove with the air closed way down, But have the stove hot enough with the secondary air tubes burning up the smoke. I really would like to know if anyone out there has a 3 to 4 foot horizontal run and offsets and has any problems with draft or a 5 gallon bucket of Creosote a month. Let's just say that I have five year old garage kept seasoned hard wood or the perfect fuel say. Will I still have draft problems and creosote buildup because of my offsets and horizontal run.

Anybody who can predict what draft will do on any given moment, I'd like to ask them a few questions about the stock market!

Too many variables. Draft is also affected by temperature differential, barometric pressure, wind, eddies, house pressure etc...

Best thing is if you cover the basics (45's, enough chimney) you "should" be alright. As stated, you biggest problem will be on startup.

 

[Treemoss]

Anybody who can predict what draft will do on any given moment, I'd like to ask them a few questions about the stock market!

Too many variables. Draft is also affected by temperature differential, barometric pressure, wind, eddies, house pressure etc...

Best thing is if you cover the basics (45's, enough chimney) you "should" be alright. As stated, you biggest problem will be on startup.

If all I have is that at start up it takes 20 min to get going I can live with that. I just don't want a very poor running stove.

 

[Treemoss]

Do you guys think a catalytic stove would be better than my noncatalytic secondary air stove.

 

[zogger]

Do you guys think a catalytic stove would be better than my noncatalytic secondary air stove.

Well, two different ways to get to the same or quite similar results. The catalytic element is designed to reburn the gasses at real high temps, to keep emissions down I guess... Secondaries are designed to do it right there and get some good heat from it.

Having owned or operated neither, and because this is the internets where it is easy to have an opinion on anything, I vote..Secondaries!

although theoretically I still like the entire concept of rocket stoves or russian masony stoves even more....

 

[CTYank]

Do you guys think a catalytic stove would be better than my noncatalytic secondary air stove.

The whole thing about getting secondary combustion (of the flammable gases produced by wood gasification in the lower part of the firebox) going is getting the mix of the preheated secondary air and the wood gas up to a temp where it'll burn. Most catalysts will "light off" with the mix around 600 deg F, where a non-cat stove needs to have that mix around/above 1050 deg F. One of the reasons for insulating the firebox with firebrick. Creosote is a by-product of low combustion temps and/or insufficient secondary air. Water just serves to drop temps.

Typically, either secondary burn heats the heat-exchanger part of the stove, like the top.

So, with a cat, you can burn cleaner at a lower heat output, but have to "fly it blind", meaning you won't be able to see if the cat has lit off- you might have to rely on stove-top thermometer. Nothing like a non-cat stove, where you can see the flaming wood-gas jets right there in the window. Catalysts degrade with use also.

Woodstock stoves have a very nice hybrid soapstone stove, that can burn very cleanly over a very wide range of outputs, as a cat or non-cat. Soapstone "smooths out" the heat output into the room. Not cheap, though.

Re some of the earlier arm-waving here, a little change of the tiny primary-air control on an EPA non-cat stove can make a big difference in the heat output. And ... REALLY dry wood is a must.

 

[Fyrebug]

It depends what you're after.

Cat stoves are really popular on the west coast and Alaska/ Yukon. The reason for this is they burn primarily soft wood (low burn time). So over there they want really long burn time.

In order to achieve this a cat stove is able cruise at lower temp for long period. They are also much bigger (and uglier IMHO) in order to stash more wood. They are also much more expensive than a standard stove. Popular brand is Blaze King. They have many fans. The biggest one out there claim 40 Hours burn time. However, the air wash is not great (the glass soots up really fast).

A non-cat will burn hotter and have shorter burn time. They can be prettier and the air wash is much better if you like to stare at the flame.

 

[Treemoss]

It depends what you're after.

Cat stoves are really popular on the west coast and Alaska/ Yukon. The reason for this is they burn primarily soft wood (low burn time). So over there they want really long burn time.

In order to achieve this a cat stove is able cruise at lower temp for long period. They are also much bigger (and uglier IMHO) in order to stash more wood. They are also much more expensive than a standard stove. Popular brand is Blaze King. They have many fans. The biggest one out there claim 40 Hours burn time. However, the air wash is not great (the glass soots up really fast).

A non-cat will burn hotter and have shorter burn time. They can be prettier and the air wash is much better if you like to stare at the flame.

I dont care if its cat non-cat all I want is to make sure I have a good draft and a proper running stove. I don't want smoke issues and bad Creosote problems.
But I feel I'm going to have problems with my offsets and 45s and I'm thinking maybe I shouldn't put in a stove now.

 

[Cheesecutter]

I dont care if its cat non-cat all I want is to make sure I have a good draft and a proper running stove. I don't want smoke issues and bad Creosote problems.
But I feel I'm going to have problems with my offsets and 45s and I'm thinking maybe I shouldn't put in a stove now.

Would it make you feel better if we told you it will work just fine? My gut feeling says it will. You've gotten good advice here and there's lots of experience for the asking.

 

[zogger]

I dont care if its cat non-cat all I want is to make sure I have a good draft and a proper running stove. I don't want smoke issues and bad Creosote problems.
But I feel I'm going to have problems with my offsets and 45s and I'm thinking maybe I shouldn't put in a stove now.

I would think if it is tall enough it should work.

 

[Fyrebug]

I would maybe stay away from cat's then since flue temps are a lot lower.

As the other guys mentioned, you should be fine.

 

[Treemoss]

I would maybe stay away from cat's then since flue temps are a lot lower.

As the other guys mentioned, you should be fine.

I'm having the chimney installer guy come over and see what other options I can have. I think I will stay away from the cat stoves. But I want to see what I can do about just having 2 45s on the vent pipe only than straight out.

 

[Treemoss]

I'm having the chimney installer guy come over and see what other options I can have. I think I will stay away from the cat stoves. But I want to see what I can do about just having 2 45s on the vent pipe only than straight out.

Okay so the chimney installer came today and he told me he will do a 90° elbow 2 ft above the stove through the wall thimble than a 4 foot horiizontal run to the tee. Then straight up passed the gutter with wall brackets. There will be no 30° offsets passed the gutter. He will go up 18 ft straight up passed the gutter from the tee. I think that will help with draft.