When the saws of the 60's and 70's are compared to modern saws ther is a significant difference in rpm.saws in the 100cc range were turning 6500 and now are running over 12k.my question for you pros is does the increase in speed lower a saws tourque numbers and ultimatley reduced its ability to run long bars?
new vs old
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fishhuntcutwood
Full wraps and long bars!!!!!!!!!
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If you understand that the saw is running higher RPM's in lieu of torque, and you let it cut it's way through like it's supposed to and not lean on it, then no, the saw will cut fine. That said, I'm a fan of torque when given the option because sometimes you do just need grunt, either in milling or running a 36" bar buried. It ain't much, but I run 7T rims on all of my timber saws just to save as much torque as I can. But yes, it is often a trade-off between torque and chain speed. It's all about mechanical advantage if you're into physics.
Jeff
Jeff
RaisedByWolves
Addicted to ArboristSite
Ill take torque over revs anyday.
My neighbor had a tree service out to take down a large oak and I went over to check things out.
The ground man had a stihl 260?(280?) this saw sounded nice from a distance, but up close it was obnoxious, thing reved out so high only dogs could hear it.
And while it was making a slew of chips, there wasnt much to them. Sounded for all the world to be cutting up a storm, but the time to go through a 10" section was nothing spectacular.
They pulled out a big homey for the trunk and larger work and it handled these 20-28" at about the same speed.
I think where the newer saws shine is in the weight. Im 260lbs so a few lbs to me isint as much as it could be for others and the lighter higher reving saws definatly give up torque in deferance to higher revs and lighter weight .
My neighbor had a tree service out to take down a large oak and I went over to check things out.
The ground man had a stihl 260?(280?) this saw sounded nice from a distance, but up close it was obnoxious, thing reved out so high only dogs could hear it.
And while it was making a slew of chips, there wasnt much to them. Sounded for all the world to be cutting up a storm, but the time to go through a 10" section was nothing spectacular.
They pulled out a big homey for the trunk and larger work and it handled these 20-28" at about the same speed.
I think where the newer saws shine is in the weight. Im 260lbs so a few lbs to me isint as much as it could be for others and the lighter higher reving saws definatly give up torque in deferance to higher revs and lighter weight .
Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
big1079 said:
No, you just need a smaller cutter at higher rpm on a longer bar, or, semi or full skip chain. The older saws were typically set up for 1/2 inch or .404, and hauled big chips out at lower rpm. Modern saws with torque high on the RPM range run with smaller bite per cutter - so 3/8 and .325 is more common. Also, on a longer bar modern bars. Nothing like torque for the big wood for stump cutting!
Does anyone have a feeling on how the different CC categories rate against each other, decade to decade?
Eg are the 75cc saws today significantly faster cutters than the 75cc saws of yesterday?
I like my old Echo 750. It cuts well and doesn't bog, but I just haven't had an opportunity for a head to head test against a modern saw.
Eg are the 75cc saws today significantly faster cutters than the 75cc saws of yesterday?
I like my old Echo 750. It cuts well and doesn't bog, but I just haven't had an opportunity for a head to head test against a modern saw.
Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
sawn_penn said:
My gut feeling is definately "yes"... with today's chains.
THALL10326
The Champ
big1079 said:
I'd have to say the new saws will walk on past the old saws even with long bars if they are the same CC's. I doult very seriously those old saws in the 100cc range pulling those .404 chains can keep up with the new saws running almost twice the rpm's with a 3/8 chain. The old saw you could bear down on to make the cut faster but that was more work for the operator to do. The new saws pretty well cut on their own, the operator just lets it cut. Thank god they don't makem like they use to. The old ones were so heavy and awkward to use and lug around. Used a big ole Mac one time years back that must have weighed 30 lbs. Power yes, speed no. Back hurt, yesssssssss.
tony marks
Addicted to ArboristSite
another factor. the high speed saws of today probably require more attention to keeping the chain sharper. it would have been better with the old saws also
but a dull chain is probably more noticeable now.jmo
but a dull chain is probably more noticeable now.jmo
older saws
I am not going to get into the speed/torque issue. But could some one tell me why these old 60's 70's saws are selling for hundreds of dollars? My point is that you could go out and buy a new one for a little more which is lighter and mechenical sound more user freindly and may be faster. I know Ebay is wacky on some prices.
I am not going to get into the speed/torque issue. But could some one tell me why these old 60's 70's saws are selling for hundreds of dollars? My point is that you could go out and buy a new one for a little more which is lighter and mechenical sound more user freindly and may be faster. I know Ebay is wacky on some prices.
Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
havvey said:
Like old cars and bikes, they are getting rarer, and someone is prepared to pay to collect them. I have a few old saws, but apart from taking up space and talking about over beers, they aren't much use. Like with cars for all the thousands of models made over the years, only a handful are getting decent prices - the rest [of the saws] you are lucky to get $25-50 for..
RaisedBy Wolves, My 028 Super with an 18" bar will slap straight through a 10" diameter log (or more like a branch) in no time. It's a given that the carb must be properly tuned, and the chain sharp. My 028 Super should be comparable to a newer 260. It takes bigger than a 10" diameter slab of timber to make that thing grunt. That saw will make short work of a basic "yard" tree.
sawn_penn said:
Now I've had a chance to run the 288XP against the 750VL the answer is that the 288XP is definitely a shade faster. The 288XP was wearing a 32" bar and the 750VL was wearing a 20" and the timber was about 20". Interestingly, both saws felt like they were about the same weight.
RaisedByWolves said:
You can't make judgements on a saw based on that experience. Was the chain sharp? Probably not. I had the power company come to fall big locust near one of their lines. Had a nice Stihl with 20" bar. Sounded great but wasn't getting anywhere. I finally handed him my Johny 625. Went through like butter. I looked at his saw. Never saw such a rocked out chain before in my life! That it cut at all was amazing.
Harry K
Chris J.
Addicted to ArboristSite
If you consider the price of a brand new 80cc saw, it's easy to see why someone who doesn't need a big saw that often would opt for an older saw.
