Itsme7
ArboristSite Operative
Or a Jap atv, they last forever and keep on going.
New wood hauler !!
- Thread starter Whitespider
- Start date
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Or a Jap atv, they last forever and keep on going.
fiasco
ArboristSite Operative
When I was 8, my dad bought me a Honda ATC 70 three wheeler. Got pulled over by the cops my first time at age 9 for bombing down the (rural, dead end loop) road on it. Always wore a helmet, somehow survived. After a couple years rode an ATC 110. Wasn't the fastest thing out there, but I'd love to have one to haul stuff around the yard today (it would pull pretty well in low range).
I have two boys now, ages six and four, and their granddad bought them a used 120cc snowmobile to ride at his house. I had to fiddle with it a bit because it had sat for a couple years, but it runs really well now. We started both the boys with the tether switch connected to a long dog lead. Somebody would stand in the middle of the yard and the boys would do laps until you were dizzy. After the blizzard this winter, it was all we could do to pack a trail for them with the adult sleds, when we tried the leash, it would just get stuck in the deep snow...so now they're off the leash. My older son is more cautious...he wouldn't even ride it at first without the leash, but my younger son did, and he crashed the sled at 2 mph into the house.
The sled is governed down to about 8 mph...I have the stuff to make it go much faster, but I tried it myself and put it back to stock very quickly. My older son is one to slowly explore the limits of a machine/activity and work his way up to doing something...my younger son likes to try the difficult thing over and over until he figures it out. Both of them got reign over the trails at their granddad's house, and I put 50+ miles on my sled following them around the yard this winter...at 8 mph. They have full-face helmets and now wear the engine kill lanyard around their wrists.
We ski a lot as well, my older son started at three and my younger at two. Both of them will likely be able out ski me next year, they can go anywhere on our local hill (but they have a favorite run that I've done about 500 times.......please can we go on another trail?). Funny thing that happened this year was we shared a chair with a ski patroller once and we were telling him how we were skiing in the woods (glades) at the area and he was giving the boys high fives and encouraging them. Then we get off the chair and the boys go into the woods and come out where there is a mini "cliff" about 8 feet above the trail. My younger son picked the easiest way down it and took off, my older son was debating taking the more challenging way down, which I KNEW he could do, so I was coaching him on how to tackle the hill. He decides to take the easier way down and another patroller skis over and gives me grief about making sure my son skis within his skill level. My boy had just decided NOT to try something new (that he could do, and has since), and I'm getting lip about how my son skis.
Where am I going with this? Each child has his or her limits, as a parent you have to watch what they are and figure out the best course of action for each child. When I was at the ski area, I met a SKI patroller on the lift, who was encouraging my sons to try new things and grow as skiers...then not ten minutes later I met a ski PATROLLER who had to be grouchy and condescending and trying to put people in what he saw as their place.
If you're tuned into your kids' strengths and weaknesses, you're doing fine, maybe not perfect, but perfect is the enemy of the good. Sounds like Whitespider has things under control.
I have two boys now, ages six and four, and their granddad bought them a used 120cc snowmobile to ride at his house. I had to fiddle with it a bit because it had sat for a couple years, but it runs really well now. We started both the boys with the tether switch connected to a long dog lead. Somebody would stand in the middle of the yard and the boys would do laps until you were dizzy. After the blizzard this winter, it was all we could do to pack a trail for them with the adult sleds, when we tried the leash, it would just get stuck in the deep snow...so now they're off the leash. My older son is more cautious...he wouldn't even ride it at first without the leash, but my younger son did, and he crashed the sled at 2 mph into the house.
The sled is governed down to about 8 mph...I have the stuff to make it go much faster, but I tried it myself and put it back to stock very quickly. My older son is one to slowly explore the limits of a machine/activity and work his way up to doing something...my younger son likes to try the difficult thing over and over until he figures it out. Both of them got reign over the trails at their granddad's house, and I put 50+ miles on my sled following them around the yard this winter...at 8 mph. They have full-face helmets and now wear the engine kill lanyard around their wrists.
We ski a lot as well, my older son started at three and my younger at two. Both of them will likely be able out ski me next year, they can go anywhere on our local hill (but they have a favorite run that I've done about 500 times.......please can we go on another trail?). Funny thing that happened this year was we shared a chair with a ski patroller once and we were telling him how we were skiing in the woods (glades) at the area and he was giving the boys high fives and encouraging them. Then we get off the chair and the boys go into the woods and come out where there is a mini "cliff" about 8 feet above the trail. My younger son picked the easiest way down it and took off, my older son was debating taking the more challenging way down, which I KNEW he could do, so I was coaching him on how to tackle the hill. He decides to take the easier way down and another patroller skis over and gives me grief about making sure my son skis within his skill level. My boy had just decided NOT to try something new (that he could do, and has since), and I'm getting lip about how my son skis.
Where am I going with this? Each child has his or her limits, as a parent you have to watch what they are and figure out the best course of action for each child. When I was at the ski area, I met a SKI patroller on the lift, who was encouraging my sons to try new things and grow as skiers...then not ten minutes later I met a ski PATROLLER who had to be grouchy and condescending and trying to put people in what he saw as their place.
If you're tuned into your kids' strengths and weaknesses, you're doing fine, maybe not perfect, but perfect is the enemy of the good. Sounds like Whitespider has things under control.
strangersfaces
ArboristSite Operative
Could it be that most people, even if they had that thought, take little pleasure in raining on someone else's parade...?
Preston
Addicted to ArboristSite
I've found there are a awful lot a folks that just don't want anything from China. They're not urinating on anybody's foot, that just dislike China made goods that much. Me being one of those few. I do my best not to but 'Made in China'.
That or his bladder is full.
That or his bladder is full.
blackdogon57
Addicted to ArboristSite
Good point. Still doesn't change the fact that these Chinese made machines have a poor track record when it comes to quality and the average consumer doesn't have the mechanical skill to keep them running. Try finding a dealer that will even attempt to work on them. It's cheaper to go buy a new one.
I ain't no fool... I know exactly what I bought... and I bought exactly what I wanted.
And no it ain't necessarily cheaper to buy a new "brand name"... in fact, depending on your plans for it a new "brand name" will cost you a ton more!!
I know what it is... and compared to something 4, 5 or 6 times the money it is a piece-o-crap. But that ain't a fair comparison, it's like comparing a Chevy Vega to a Rolls Royce. Making the generic statement that Chinese ATV's are a "piece of crap is sort'a snobbish... sure, ya' get what ya' pay for, but that ain't a problem if ya' pay for it with your eyes wide open. Are they the right choice for everyone?? Nope. I sure wouldn't recommend one to a single mom, or any parent that don't know how to "turn-a-wrench"... but for a guy like me...
I did my research on these things, if you're mechanically schooled, they're one heck of a good value for a child's first ATV, and here's why...
- Price - The cost of a new kid's Chinese ATV is less than the value you lose by taking a (so-called) quality ATV out of the dealers showroom. In fact, it was only a couple hundred more than a battery-powered ATV from Walmart. Sure, I could have looked for a used (insert brand name here)... but the neighbor bought a used Yamaha for his kids three years ago and it's been a friggin' money pit. Between what he paid for it, plus the immediate expenses like new tires and such, plus what he's spent on keeping it running... he'd have been better-off buying a new Yamaha.
- Maintenance costs - The price of parts and pieces for "brand name" kid's ATV's are off the charts... I know from the neighbors Yamaha. A few years ago parts for Chinese ATV's were difficult to get, but that's changed; there are now several online sources stocking a full line of parts, at just a tiny fraction of the price of "brand name"... heck, I can buy a complete, brand new, running engine assembly for less than $200.oo.
- Reliability - The engines on these things are Honda-knock-offs and are darn good for the money (just like the Harbor Freight Chinese engines); some of the stuff attached to them may need a bit of "tweaking" (such as the carburetor)... but if you're mechanically adept like me that ain't any problem. And changing the oil 2 or 3 times during during the first couple of hours run-time is a good idea. Contrary to popular belief, Chinese steel is good stuff, but machined surfaces, tolerances and quality control are not... meaning you need to spend a little time making sure fasteners are properly tightened (maybe add some thread-lock to some), giving the machine a good looking-over checking that all small parts are in place, inspecting welds, and lubing wear points before ever running them. After a couple hours use it's a good idea to give them a second going over to head off anything that might be a problem later... and then do a weekly or monthly (depending on usage) 10-minute inspection/maintenance thing. But again, for someone like me, none of this is a problem... heck, because I am-who-I-am, I'd do the exact same thing with anything my child is riding/using anyway, even a "brand name".
- Longevity - This one is relative. Exactly how long do you want it to last? Likely it will be worn-out much faster than a "brand name"... but for 5-times the money, the "brand name" should last 5-times longer. Actually, with a little diligent maintenance there isn't any reason a Chinese ATV won't easily last the 3-5 years before my son out-grows it... maybe longer. And heck, for the money I'd be more than happy with 3 years (that's what I'm planning). After-all, he's 5-years-old... he ain't gonna' be jumping school buses with it!! I'm 55, I ain't gonna' have any more kids to pass this thing on to... it needs to to be a child's first ATV, just one single child, nothing more.
- Value - This one is also relative. These things have zero value used... but at the same time the "new" price is about the same or less than the depreciation of just taking a new "brand name" off the showroom. Nope, I won't have anything to sell when he's done with it... but I also won't have $3000.oo-$5000.oo invested for 3-5 years either. The "loss of value" is the same... the difference is, I've spent no more than I've lost (again, eyes wide open). Basically it's no different than that battery-powered ATV a Walmart (which also has zero value used, and cost about the same money)... ya' just throw it away when the kid has used it up.
Ya' just can't compare these things to a Honda, Yamaha, Polaris, etc... ya' can't look at them the same. That's where the word "crap" comes in, by comparing a Chevy Vega to a Rolls Royce... it ain't a fair comparison. They are actually damn good for the money invested... dollar-for-dollar, they're way more than any other manufacturer can provide... but they ain't the right choice for everyone. In my mind it was ridiculous to fork out the money for a "brand name" so my kid could ride around the yard and woodlot for a couple years, it's a child,s toy after all, nothing more... it's just the next step up from his little electric Gator, nothing more. I wouldn't recommend one of these cheap ATV's for someone without mechanical know-how... if you can't rebuild a carb, rebuild a clutch, diagnose ignition issues, understand how to align front wheels, and don't own more than basic tools you need to buy with dealer-support in mind. But if you're mechanically minded, and own the proper tools... and most importantly, go into it with your eyes-wide-open...
I ain't no fool... I know exactly what I bought... and I bought exactly what I wanted.
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Yep... I destroyed two Vegas... L-O-L!
Preston
Addicted to ArboristSite
That's what I was wondering. Why pick on the Vega. Almost as much fun as the Metropolitan.
Just a little bit about the “Made In China” thing…
Listen, I ain’t happy about what China has been up-to for the last few years… but in reality, they’re only taking advantage of what we give them. They ain’t doing anything you or I wouldn’t… just trying to get rich. Yeah, some of the Chinese companies are less than reputable… some down-right unscrupulous… but that ain’t every Chinese company (buyer beware).
Yep, there are some ATV’s with a “Made In America” sticker on them, but the companies are not American owned (at least not completely)… the profits are still going over-seas. Actually the sticker should say “Assembled In America From Parts And Materials Sourced From All Over The World”. And I challenge you to find a single ATV (made anywhere) that doesn’t have some parts on it wearing a “Made In China” sticker. Now it could be argued that the Jap and Korean ATV companies have created jobs for American workers, but so have the Chinese ATV companies… small independent dealers have started privately owned (100% American owned) small businesses selling them or the parts, warehouses and shipping companies profit from transporting them, some of the stuff used to build them is actually sourced from America, etc., etc., etc.
It simply is-what-it-is… it’s the world we live in. If you feel better buying something with a “Made In America” sticker… well, then that’s what you should do. But don’t fool yourself in the process thinking that makes any difference to the “world economy” we live in, or your money stays here in America, or you’ve actually bought something 100% American… because it’s far from it. It is my money I’m spending, and every dollar I spend means there’s less of something else for my family… I’m gonna’ put it to the best use I possibly can. Sometimes that means paying a little extra for “Made In America”… and sometimes it flat don’t! Paying 4, 5 or 6 times more for a child’s toy, just because it says “Made In America” (which it really ain’t), and made by a foreign owned company besides, ain’t where my head is at.
Listen, I ain’t happy about what China has been up-to for the last few years… but in reality, they’re only taking advantage of what we give them. They ain’t doing anything you or I wouldn’t… just trying to get rich. Yeah, some of the Chinese companies are less than reputable… some down-right unscrupulous… but that ain’t every Chinese company (buyer beware).
Yep, there are some ATV’s with a “Made In America” sticker on them, but the companies are not American owned (at least not completely)… the profits are still going over-seas. Actually the sticker should say “Assembled In America From Parts And Materials Sourced From All Over The World”. And I challenge you to find a single ATV (made anywhere) that doesn’t have some parts on it wearing a “Made In China” sticker. Now it could be argued that the Jap and Korean ATV companies have created jobs for American workers, but so have the Chinese ATV companies… small independent dealers have started privately owned (100% American owned) small businesses selling them or the parts, warehouses and shipping companies profit from transporting them, some of the stuff used to build them is actually sourced from America, etc., etc., etc.
It simply is-what-it-is… it’s the world we live in. If you feel better buying something with a “Made In America” sticker… well, then that’s what you should do. But don’t fool yourself in the process thinking that makes any difference to the “world economy” we live in, or your money stays here in America, or you’ve actually bought something 100% American… because it’s far from it. It is my money I’m spending, and every dollar I spend means there’s less of something else for my family… I’m gonna’ put it to the best use I possibly can. Sometimes that means paying a little extra for “Made In America”… and sometimes it flat don’t! Paying 4, 5 or 6 times more for a child’s toy, just because it says “Made In America” (which it really ain’t), and made by a foreign owned company besides, ain’t where my head is at.
bowtechmadman
Addicted to ArboristSite
Sounds like you knew exactly what you were buying...and your right on all points...as long as you can turn a wrench it should last 3 or 4 yrs. I lucked out on the kymco's I purchased they are actually a quality machine (made in tiawan) and if you buy an Arctic Cat under 400cc's you will be buying a kymco. Only thing I've had to do to either of them is replace 2 bolts on each for the exhaust hanger...they worked loose and started to vibrate.
fubar2
Addicted to ArboristSite
You better clear this with Guido and that other guy first but I'd be thinking about bottling up that crap Chinese air thats in the tires and sending it to a nuke storage bunker. Then I'd fill them with some good old American quality air.
Preston
Addicted to ArboristSite
Yes it was. The little 2 seater.
Preston
Addicted to ArboristSite
When I first started motocross I bought a Czechoslovakian made bike. No bikes made in America were for motocross. The Harley just wouldn't work. It was known the first thing you "had" to do was redo every bolt and nut on the bike with locktite. Some we even had to drill and wire the nuts on. If you didn't it just might fall apart during a race. But man was that thing fun. Just me, but if would have had to buy a Chinese made bike, I probably would have raced the Harley. 
Can it get any worse than that?
Can it get any worse than that?
blackdogon57
Addicted to ArboristSite
I bought my kids a pair of well used Honda z-50s a few years back ( I know not made in north America but at least Honda makes some of their stuff here and you can't match Honda quality).
The kids rode them around for a few years and survived many crashes. Thankfully no serious injuries. My kids are older now so I decided to pit them out on the road with a big for sale sign one Saturday morning. Within half an hour I had a lineup of guys wanting to buy the bikes. I sold them for exactly what I paid for them and probably could he asked for more and got it. I put no money into them in the five years or so I had them. Ya just can't get stuff cheaper than that and cant buy the satisfaction of passing them on to another family.
The kids rode them around for a few years and survived many crashes. Thankfully no serious injuries. My kids are older now so I decided to pit them out on the road with a big for sale sign one Saturday morning. Within half an hour I had a lineup of guys wanting to buy the bikes. I sold them for exactly what I paid for them and probably could he asked for more and got it. I put no money into them in the five years or so I had them. Ya just can't get stuff cheaper than that and cant buy the satisfaction of passing them on to another family.
i find that generally kids are pretty good and knowing their own limits. Sure, some will get scraped and cut and that occasional broken bone but that is within their personal limit. Others would never go so far as to risk a scrape. A few years ago i was showing my niece how to run the snowmobile, first she'd sit in front and help steer, then she'd take over the throttle and i'd help steer. Soon she was driving with me just sitting in back. When I let her go out by herself I told her to stay in the field, don't go into the bush or by the rocks. she went out about 50', turned around and came back, that was enough for her. Few weeks later on her second trip she went out into the middle of the field, got the machine going in a big circle and kept going around and around the circle. after about 1/2 hour of watching this (and starting to get dizzy!) I wandered out to where she was and told her she didn't have to keep going in a circle, she could go anywhere in the field she wanted. She got an excited grin and said"OK, thanks". I went back to the fire and watched her turn that circle into an oval, and go round and round the oval for another 1/2 hour 
That was her comfort level, several years later she still loves to drive it sometimes - out into the field, around and around then back to the house.
Now I have other young relatives that only go out with full protective equipment and an ambulance on speeddial!
To each their own.
That was her comfort level, several years later she still loves to drive it sometimes - out into the field, around and around then back to the house.
Now I have other young relatives that only go out with full protective equipment and an ambulance on speeddial!
To each their own.
brenndatomu
Hey you woodchucks, quit chucking my wood!
Ahhh, that brings back memorys, the old Z50. How many kids have started out on a Z50? I know I did...
What a tough little bike, you can't kill 'em! A nice one will bring some money now days! I seen a chrome one one fleabay, if I recall, they were wanting $2k or something like that out of it!
That's great if it works out that way... but my neighbor's experience is the exact opposite.
Unless you personally know what, and from whom, you're buying used it's always a gamble... you have no inkling what you're buying. For all you know the previous owner didn't change oil for 5 years, or maybe the thing was under water once, or like my neighbors purchase... the tires are full of stop-leak snot and they still go flat in a couple days, and the carb has screws stripped-out and put back together with super glue and self-tapping screws, and the auto-clutch went out in less than a month. Have you priced four new tires, a new carburetor, and clutch parts for a Jap ATV?? And all this on top of what he knew he would spend (torn seat, broken brake lever, and a couple other things). Before he was done that first year he had nearly the price of new invested in a used one... and now it's low on compression!
At least buying "new"... even cheap Chinese "new"... I know exactly what I have.
