Newbie With Quick Question For Experts - CSM

[daddy11ac]

Hi guys. Thanks for all the posts. I've spent hours reading everything on here the last few days.

OK, I'll try to keep this brief, but here's my situation and would love some of you guys to chime in with a quick response.

I'm an intermediate woodworker, got my jointer, planer, table saw, etc. I have been buying rough sawn stuff and doing a lot of table tops and what not. Been contemplating trying to mill my own with a chainsaw mill on and off for a year, researching, reading everything I can (like on this forum). So, I got my hands on 5 rails today, average diameter about 30", with one big boy (to me) pushing 42" on the thick end. Oak and maple.

So, now I'm ready to make my purchase. Chainsaw, mill, accessories, etc. I think I know what chainsaw I need (Stihl/Husq 85cc or more), but my question to you guys is, should I get a 48" bar or a 36" bar/mill setup. For that one extra big log (extra big to me), can I just 'cant' the thing using a 36", or is it easier to simply get the bigger size (48"), even though I imagine most of the logs in the future I mill will be much smaller?

I hope this makes sense, and thank you to anyone who spends their own time responding to this. It is appreciated. Just looking for the guys who know to say "go buy this, this and that, and you'll be fine". I'm willing to spend the money, as this is not a money/time thing for me. I truly want to do it for the right reasons, which is as a hobbyist, so any responses saying "for the money, your better of with x and y" probably wont resonate well with me.

BTW, I live in Jersey, and did try to find prices for a portable miller, but no one in my area can handle anything bigger than 28" diameter.

Thanks in advance again.

Anthony

 

[carvinmark]

Hi, Welcome to the site.
If 48" will do it for you then you should just get it. I think you will be happy with that set up.

 

[timberwolf]

If you have trees over 30-42 inches, 48 is going to be what you would need. I have milled some hardwood in the 30 inch range and it takes a lot of power to mill at anything more than a snails pace. Minnimum saw 660 or 395, but if you can swing it an 880 or 3120 would be better if most of it is going to be bigger logs.

On the CSM I don't bother much cutting anything in 1 inch slabs, just too much work for the yield, for me cutting thicker slabs and resawing is preferible. However it takes a long time to dry 3 inch thick hardwood, start building up a stock pile for 2-3 years into the future.

 

[vamtjewboy]

my 2 cents

hi anthony,

i'm no expert, but here's what i think...timberwolf is right; if your logs are big u'll need the 48" bar. but if u get a granberg or other similar mill remember that you'll get about 6" less actually milling capacity than the mill size. in order to get 100% of the mill's miling capacity you'll need to get a bar 6" longer than the mill. u can't attach the mill to the very end of the bar because u can't pinch the sprocket...and the mill has to be a few inches away from the powerhead so it can adjust up and down without hitting the saw's body. when i ran a 24" bar on a 24" mill i could only make cuts 18" wide with is set to the max possible width. my 36" bar on my 36" mill will cut 30".

i agree with timberwolf also in regards to getting a big daddy saw...but i wouldn't say that because u are milling big wood. even if ur trees were small i'd say go ahead and get the big saw. i had a husky 288 (88 cc's) and i now have a beefed up 3120xp. i am really glad i got it and didn't skimp. it even has a modded muffler and porter cylinder; i'm glad i have the power. if they made something bigger i would have gotten that. it's 8.6+ HP...compared to bandsaw mills it's tiny. even with the much smaller kerf, i have never seen a bandsaw mill with less than 10HP. my neighbor has the huge caterpillar diesel on his monster fully hydraulic Woodmizer; i think it's around 70HP. he had a v-twin Kohler with about 40HP and LOVES the power he has now. honestly, i don't see how guys can stand to mill lumber with anything other than the really big saws. sure it can be done, but concrete could be busted up with a carpenters hammer...a sledge hammer would be a little faster, but why not go with a jack hammer. now that i think about it, a huge chainsaw is like taking the sledge hammer to the concrete. better than a 12 once for sure, but nothing like a gas powered jack hammer...if money isn't an issue and u'r milling bigger wood, get a chainsaw to cant the logs into sizes a bandsaw will handle and get urself a Woodmizer Bandsaw Mill for the actual milling. www.woodmizer.com. they have some very small, fully manual mills and a complete line of incrimentally larger mills up to the big daddy LT70! u'll waste less wood and get straighter, flatter lumber no matter what band mill u get. the kerf difference is substantial. you won't believe how much sawdust u will produce making a single CSM cut...4 cuts with the csm and u'll have wasted an entire 1" board. i didn't consider a bandsaw because i have more time than money and don't want to invest in ways to skid my logs out of my 40 mountain acres. i have to be able to go to my felled trees. so far i have spent about $2,000 on the saw, bars and chain and other misc. equipment. i think the tiny woodmizer is around $4-5,000. have u looked into the logosol mills (powerheads not included). they have some neat products..kinda pricey in my opinion though:

www.logosol.com

stihl 088 or husky 3120...i used to be a stihl owner until i started using husky saws. i love how easy they are to start and how smooth they run. i always hated the stihl death switch, but i'm not sure what new stihls are like these days. i'm not sure about the 088, but my 3120 has a cool feature that allows me to push a self locking switch that gives the bar extra oil. i pretty much use it all the time. it is in between the choke and on/off switch. u just push it with ur thumb and it stays engaged until u push it in and it disengages.

I started with a 24" granberg, but bought the 36" rail kit. out in the woods it gets stuck on nearby trees and objects, but i'm not going to spend the time to switch mills. i have a variety of bars depending on what i'm milling. the idea of getting only a 48" bar is unattractive to me. that is a ton of teeth to be sharpening! and a huge rig to be lugging around.

i hope some of this is somewhat useful. let us know what u end up doing. good luck-nick

 

[daddy11ac]

Thanks guys....just the acknowledgement that my post made somewhat sense, makes me feel a lot better. I will shop today for the saw and Mill setup. Used chainsaws are tough out where I am, well, finding the big boys.

In regards to me saying the money is not a concern, that was more around the CSM expenses versus the value of the wood and my time. I don't think I can purchase a bandsaw mill.....that would mean my driveway has been taken over, and wifey would not allow it, lol. PLus, I'm not looking to make a 3$ to 6$ investment.......but I would not mind investing $1500 in a good CSM set up, cuz I think I'll get the money back just out of these trees I have here.

I guess the only other question is, do I buy the alaskan kit or make my own rail guide.

How come there isn't a company that sells the whole package with a powerhead? I guess Bailey's is the best spot online for a new saw?

Thanks again guys. I'll get set up. I won't wait long to try everything.....(umm, I'm sure as soon as I tighten the last bolt, I'll be rolling a log, lol).......and then pictures.

Anthony

 

[vamtjewboy]

granberg mill and new/used saws

http://www.granberg.com/

call granberg directly for the mill. it's a tiny little business and after calling a few times i have figured out that the office staff is 3 people. i think one of the guys is the grandson of the designer of the first mill. they will wheel and deal with u on the prices. -nick

dan, from the forum, sent me this about a saw he has for sale. sounds like a great entry purchase for u. and the price is right!!

Hey Nick! Good stuff about the 3120! Monster saw! Regarding the 395xp, I bought this combo after having multiple trees taken down on myproperty. After milling some with it, I realized that it made a lot more sense for me to have a pro come in and mill it (Wood-Mizer). I have over 4000 bd ft here. I wanted to hold onto it for the larger diameter hardwoods that I might come across, but I'm honestly more focused on my business ventures right now than on milling. I loved doing it...and can't wait to pick it back up later...just not the right time now for the extra hobby. I probably didn't even put 3 hrs on it. how does it run/look? anything wrong with it? how old? A: I bought it used from a reputable saw shop. The owner had it for 1 year, and I was told it probably spent more time in the back of a truck rather than cutting trees down. I'd say that's pretty accurate...its in nice shape. I took it into my local saw shop to have them give their opinion and they said it was in great shape. I'm looking to get $600 for the saw with the 36" bar, 2 ripping chains, and the cross cutting chain. If I sell the mill separate, I'm looking for $150 for that. $700 together is my goal. Not sure that's in the price range for a convenience saw, but time is important huh! I took a couple of pictures last night, I'll send them to you if you'd like. Shoot me your email address. You can email it to: [email protected]

new saws on ebay with 2 year warranty:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Chainsaws-HUSQV...ryZ79666QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Chain-Saws-HUSQ...ryZ79666QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[daddy11ac]

Thanks!

Thanks vamtjewboy! You guys rock! I emailed Dan about his saw to see if its available still. If not, I will definitely explore calling Granberg direct and seeing if I can communicate a "discount", lol.

Heading back out to re-measure those trees. I did it last night in the dark somewhat, so want to double check, and I'll repost.

Thanks,
Anthony

 

[woodshop]

... but my question to you guys is, should I get a 48" bar or a 36" bar/mill setup. For that one extra big log (extra big to me), can I just 'cant' the thing using a 36", or is it easier to simply get the bigger size (48"), even though I imagine most of the logs in the future I mill will be much smaller?

Anthony, you CAN slice up a 48" dia log with a 36" csm (max actually cutting width about 32 inches). I've dont it several times. Just takes a little more fussing and setup. You slice off a slab, turn log (I use a floor jack to turn huge logs) then slab again... after a few cuts you can whittle that huge log down to less than 32 inch wide cants and go from there with your csm. If you live in Jersey (I live in PA but work in Jersey, travel the whole state) you're probably not going to be slicing up 48" logs every day. Point being there are some advantages to a smaller 36 inch mill if that is all you really need. Less weight overall, lower cost of bar and chain for starters. Just would hate for you to have to manhandle that 48 inch csm all the time when you really only need the 36" for most of your milling.

If you expect to be milling more than just a log or two here and there, and money isn't a huge issue, and you don't have space in the driveway for a full blown bandmill but want some of the benefits of cutting with a band, consider a Ripsaw portable bandmill. Grab a cup of joe and read through this thread if you are interested.

http://arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=19709

 

[daddy11ac]

thanks woodshop

Hi woodshop. Yes, thank you. I actually just had a great conversation with Dan for about 30 minutes and we have made plans for me to come out and purchase his 395XP 36" set-up mentioned above. He did mention more than once how you are "The Man", and I even said I would try to send you an email saying hello and thanking you for the input.

Yes, I feel 500x better right now after just getting a chance to "speak" to someone who knows exactly what they are doing and to take the time to understand what my deal is and help me along, so thank you Dan again. I'm looking forward to getting out there and learning everything I can.

Yes, my thinking exactly was that I would just cant whatever wood I can't get the 36 incher through, but just wanted to make sure there wasn't anything I was missing. I have enough respect for this craft to know that "assuming" anything might be a huge mistake on my part.

Most of the wood I probably will get in the coming years will not be anything bigger than 30 inches. So yes, this seems to make sense in every aspect. I'm getting a great set-up and instruction from someone with great knowledge, I'm not breaking the bank, and hopefully making some friends in the process. Life is Good! LOL

Anthony

 

[timberwolf]

Good deal!

Sometimes too if the log is just a little over the size limit of the CSM, without rolling it to slab off different sides you can just trim off a little bit from the sides with a second smaller saw.

 

[oldsaw]

I guess I'm not needed here anymore...carry on.

Mark

 

[vamtjewboy]

5%?

sounds good! good luck! tell dan a 5% referal fee will be fine. Cash or money order will do. -nick

 

[rxe]

I have a 36" Alaskan, and a 47" bar is what you need if you want to use the whole thing. Actually, a 43 or 45 would be perfect if you could get one, but a 42 is too short (you end up pinching the tip). Also - take the dogs off the saw for a bit more length.

Milling saws? An old 070 in average condition can be had for $200 - $300, and makes a good power head. An 090 is better (I've got one), but they seem to be going for silly money in the US ($1000+) at the moment. Though compared to the cost of an 880, they seem reasonable.

 

[BobL]

In theory you should at least be able to cut up a log with a diameter about 1.4 times bigger than your mill cutting length with only 2 additional cuts.

So a 32" cutting length should be able to mill a 44" log using the diagram below. Firstly peel off the two sides and then you can start cutting boards or slabs.

It's not quite as good as that because of the thickness of the bar clamps but you should be able to mill a 42" log with a 32" cutting length.

For me its not so much about the diameter of the trunk involved but being able to mill around interesting branches and crotches where you get the interesting grain effects.

Cheers

 

[aggiewoodbutchr]

Nice graphic.

You could mill a log even bigger than that by working your way around the log taking as much as your mill will allow each time but it is a PITA and time consuming. I prefer to have a bigger bar.

 

[woodshop]

Nice graphic.

You could mill a log even bigger than that by working your way around the log taking as much as your mill will allow each time but it is a PITA and time consuming. I prefer to have a bigger bar.

Yup, that's what I've done in the past with logs over 36 inches, and it is indeed a time consuming pain in the butt. You spend most of your time moving and positioning 3000lbs of log, interspersed with a little milling just for fun.

 

[BobL]

2 extra cuts to get at a log I don't mind but after that 6 more cuts are needed and a lot of good timber gets wasted. Bigger bar is definitely the go at this point.

Cheers

 

[woodshop]

2 extra cuts to get at a log I don't mind but after that 6 more cuts are needed and a lot of good timber gets wasted. Bigger bar is definitely the go at this point.

Cheers

Agreed, you do start to waste more lumber doing that... and not only loss in kerf, but the fact that you are not milling nice square cants, so you don't get the most efficient boards out of the chunks you are slabbing off. Personally here I just don't see enough of those huge ones to justify buying that (expensive) bigger bar along with a bigger mill to fit it into. Maybe some day.

 

[daddy11ac]

Thanks

Thanks guys for the input and diagrams. Def helps. I just picked up the 395 from Dan today and hope to get some cuts going sometime this week once I feel I am "overly" prepared. Pictures will follow. Can't say enough about how helpful you all have been, and a huge thanks to Dan for spending over 3 hours of his personal time educating me today.

Anthony

 

[BobL]

Thanks guys for the input and diagrams. Def helps. I just picked up the 395 from Dan today and hope to get some cuts going sometime this week once I feel I am "overly" prepared. Pictures will follow. Can't say enough about how helpful you all have been, and a huge thanks to Dan for spending over 3 hours of his personal time educating me today.

Anthony

Don't worry about being overly prepared - I don't think you can have too much knowledge and stuff. When I got started I sunk a fair bit of $$ and time/physical/emotional investment into my mill and was very nervous as I only had no guarantee of any logs. Now I have offers of dozens of logs that I cannot even think of how I will ever get around to milling.