Noob here....basic questions on ECHO CS-400 Chainsaw

[khorton]

Hey all, I just joined this site, and wanted to know if you all could provide a little insight on this saw. My wife purchased for me as a replacement to my dead P.O.C. Craftsman saw that was around 10 years old and had been run maybe a dozen times. Anyway, I was reading the reviews on this saw (CS400), and this is the one that stood out and made me come to this site:

Can someone give me some insight on this topic?

I don't want to screw up this saw.

Thx in advance for any guidance.

***By Laura Allensworth - See all my reviewsThis review is from: Echo CS-400 18" Gas Chainsaw
Step one: Go to the Arborists Site Forums and read up on the CS400, and the mods those guys are doing. Pretty much everyone on that site is a pro user or saw addict. You will find that this is a highly respected saw even amoung pros. They all know that Echo's warranty is garbage but many don't care.

Step two: Do the mixture screw stop removal mod before you even start it.

Step three: Start the saw and tune it properly. Arborists Site can help you with this too if you are a complete rookie.

(The EPA has clamped down on 2 cycle emmissions; so many engines come with stops on the mixture screws to keep the user from tuning "too rich" and melting the polar ice caps. My saw was very lean even in warm weather tuned with both needles to the stops. Left alone it would have surely burnt up like so many in these Amazon reviews. I removed the stops and tuned the saw. Viola, she runs perfect.)

Step four: Run the saw and love it.

Step five: After several tanks of fuel consider doing the fabled muffler mod, or "MM" as the guys on the site call it. The CS400 responds very favorbaly to a MM and the new found power will have you looking for saw races with your little sleeper.

 

[Bitburger]

Hi, and welcome!

Could you give some more information? So, you just got an Echo cs 400:

Did you get a brand new one from the shop, with owners manual and waranty, or sth used, already ready to run?

I guess it is a recent model of "cs-400" like this one:

http://www.acresinternet.com/cscc.n...69abdceee09c7aaf88256d0c006c85d2?OpenDocument

and NOT an old "cs-400 evl" like this one: Model Profile: CS-400EVL ...

this is a strange issue with Echo, the model names have been repeated over the years.
I still have a crankshaft for the new cs400 that I messed up when ordering...:bang:

Anyway, its a very nice and lightweight-saw for many tasks that do not require 6h of operation each day...

Do you use ordinary gasoline with 2 stroke oil or some alkylate ready mix stuff like Aspen ?

The matter is, that the carburetor might be set very lean in the factory, to match some more or less convenient emission protocols. Usually this is already away from a mixture where the saw runs good and has enough internal engine cooling. You will see this immediately, when even after 30s of idling the saw will not accelerate properly.

The adjustment screws nowadays are fixed by the so called limiter caps, that will prevent you from tuning the carb adjustments.

The best thing might be just to start the saw and to see how it runs as it is.
If there are issues, you will have to remove those cabs and adjust the carb...

you could post the result of the first test in between.

 

[Hedgerow]

Hey all, I just joined this site, and wanted to know if you all could provide a little insight on this saw. My wife purchased for me as a replacement to my dead P.O.C. Craftsman saw that was around 10 years old and had been run maybe a dozen times. Anyway, I was reading the reviews on this saw (CS400), and this is the one that stood out and made me come to this site:

Can someone give me some insight on this topic?

I don't want to screw up this saw.

Thx in advance for any guidance.

***By Laura Allensworth - See all my reviewsThis review is from: Echo CS-400 18" Gas Chainsaw
Step one: Go to the Arborists Site Forums and read up on the CS400, and the mods those guys are doing. Pretty much everyone on that site is a pro user or saw addict. You will find that this is a highly respected saw even amoung pros. They all know that Echo's warranty is garbage but many don't care.

Step two: Do the mixture screw stop removal mod before you even start it.

Step three: Start the saw and tune it properly. Arborists Site can help you with this too if you are a complete rookie.

(The EPA has clamped down on 2 cycle emmissions; so many engines come with stops on the mixture screws to keep the user from tuning "too rich" and melting the polar ice caps. My saw was very lean even in warm weather tuned with both needles to the stops. Left alone it would have surely burnt up like so many in these Amazon reviews. I removed the stops and tuned the saw. Viola, she runs perfect.)

Step four: Run the saw and love it.

Step five: After several tanks of fuel consider doing the fabled muffler mod, or "MM" as the guys on the site call it. The CS400 responds very favorbaly to a MM and the new found power will have you looking for saw races with your little sleeper.

That's hilarious...
Have you made any of these modifications yet?
And yes, the cs 400 can be a very nice little saw.
Were you wanting to start with the limiter tabs?

 

[khorton]

That's hilarious...
Have you made any of these modifications yet?
And yes, the cs 400 can be a very nice little saw.
Were you wanting to start with the limiter tabs?

Thanks, no....I haven't even taken it out of the box yet. All I know is I'm seeing mixed reviews on this thing, and 90% of the negatives are due to engine seizure. BitBurger also replied to this thread, and I didn't get an opportunity to reply...but yes, this is a brand new saw in the box, and it is the newer model of the CS400...anyway, is it the limiter tabs that need to be fixed in order to keep this thing running properly and from seizing up? I know it's not an expensive saw, but it's $300 bucks, and well, $300 is $300....that Craftsman was just a dog that didn't want to stay running, and it was old, BUT, it had only been used maybe a dozen times before it quit. Thanks for your response. Is that a pretty easy mod?

Thanks again.

 

[Hedgerow]

Thanks, no....I haven't even taken it out of the box yet. All I know is I'm seeing mixed reviews on this thing, and 90% of the negatives are due to engine seizure. BitBurger also replied to this thread, and I didn't get an opportunity to reply...but yes, this is a brand new saw in the box, and it is the newer model of the CS400...anyway, is it the limiter tabs that need to be fixed in order to keep this thing running properly and from seizing up? I know it's not an expensive saw, but it's $300 bucks, and well, $300 is $300....that Craftsman was just a dog that didn't want to stay running, and it was old, BUT, it had only been used maybe a dozen times before it quit. Thanks for your response. Is that a pretty easy mod?

Thanks again.

Yes, it is...
How savvy are you with the mechanics of a saw?
Take the air filter off to where you can see the high needle and low needle on the side of the carb.
Put a small flat screw driver into the slots and turn them back and forth. You'll see the little plastic tabs that prevent full motion of those fuel mixture screws... The little tabs need to be nipped or ground off.
So you can fully adjust the carb for enough fuel in the idle, and full throttle range.
There are 3 screws. One of which is only an idle adjuster that moves the throttle position."That's not the important one at this time".
Let me know when you get that far.

You know how to post pics yet? May be helpful at some point, since I'm not very "Mind picture"
oriented...

 

[khorton]

Yes, it is...
How savvy are you with the mechanics of a saw?
Take the air filter off to where you can see the high needle and low needle on the side of the carb.
Put a small flat screw driver into the slots and turn them back and forth. You'll see the little plastic tabs that prevent full motion of those fuel mixture screws... The little tabs need to be nipped or ground off.
So you can fully adjust the carb for enough fuel in the idle, and full throttle range.
There are 3 screws. One of which is only an idle adjuster that moves the throttle position."That's not the important one at this time".
Let me know when you get that far.

You know how to post pics yet? May be helpful at some point, since I'm not very "Mind picture"
oriented...

Thanks for the reply...no, not overly familiar with chainsaws, but figured it can't be too difficult...figure if I can put a motor back in a car and get it tuned, this shouldn't be a problem. :msp_scared:

I'll get it out of the box and take a look at it, and will follow your instructions...and as far as this site, not familiar with posting pics, but shouldn't be an issue...hopefully. Will let you know when I get that done. I see that you are from Carthage, MO? I was down there 5-6 years ago, picked up a couple of Chow Chows from a gal named Valerie Gilmartin...(Gilmartin Farms, or something like that)....anyway, she bred them. I don't know if you know her, or if you even know who she is, but if you do and you see her, tell her the pups are doing just fine. They eat better than I do. :msp_biggrin:

Thanks again, will get back with you.

 

[REJ2]

Hello to a fellow Kansan! Until you can either get a tach or the limiters trimmed, turn the adjusting needles counterclockwise to the stops. Ive read some Echos are shipped lean but i'll tell you mine wasnt. Your owners manual should give a maximum no load rpm. A tach will help you dial it in a few hundred rpm's less than max. Search function should provide insight to removing limiters, its not difficult if similar to mine. Like i said, back adjusting screws counterclockwise until it hits stop. Use good mix oil and 89-92 ethanol free fuel and go cut some wood.

 

[rmotoman]

Most Echo 400 need richening right out of the box. Mine was so lean i was scared it would seize during break in so I cut the tabs and gave it more fuel. Adjusting the carb, doing a muffler mod, and putting on some good chain make for a very good chainsaw.

 

[Bitburger]

Will you be able to make a picture of the carburetor ? Sometimes the limiter caps just have a kind of "nose" so that they bump against an obstacle, when turned. That nose is easily removed with a sharp blade and you don't have to remove the whole cap which is sometimes tricky.

In all cases, when you "modified" the limiter cap, you might just turn the "H" screw 1/8 turn to the LEFT, without need for further details to consider. The saw should run then...

and for "long live" or fine tuning, you should have the possibility to check rpm at full throttle.
After the first gallon of fuel, when the engine parts have leveled, you might set the "L" screw to best acceleration and "H" to a position where you are about 500 rpm lower than max. rpm of the handbook, as written by REJ2 two posts above. Then you will have a great saw for many years of use.

 

[FergusonTO35]

Hey guys, another noob here. I just bought a recent production CS400 from a pawn shop. The saw is in excellent condition and appears to have had light use, still had the original bar and chain. The chain had alot of wear so I put a new Oregon long top on it. I have the saw a good cleaning and inspection. The spark plug was a nice reddish gray color and the air filter was new. I went ahead and put anti-seize on the exhaust fasteners as I do with all my engines and found that the saw has a cat muffler. The carb adjustment screws have conventional flathead slots and will rotate in either direction by about a third of a turn.

I haven't had a chance to run the saw yet due to the rain. It looks like the previous owner was able to use it enough to wear out the chain. I'm planning to use the same 36:1 mix (92 octane gas, name brand oil, fuel stabilizer) I use in everything including my other saws and my Echo SRM225 weedeater. If the saw runs to my liking should I still do any mods? I'm not planning to hot rod it or use the saw professionally. This saw will be for firewood and property maintenance and will share the job with my other saws. Any suggestions or advice appreciated!

 

[CTYank]

The advice about the max rpm is IMHO a non-starter. (Running @WOT and no load is not a good idea.)

To set "H" mixture:
1. Remove limiters. Warm up engine, like under load for a few minutes.
2. Turn H adjuster CCW in steps (e.g. 1/4 turn) until engine 2-strokes when cutting and 4-strokes when you lift the bar, still at WOT.
3. Fine-tune until it just starts to 4-stroke when you lift the bar.

For ref: "2-stroking" means that the engine "sings" a clear note, firing consistently each opportunity.
"4-stroking" means not firing consistenly, even sounding like it has a touch of asthma.

You'll find, on searching, various practical and theoretical discussions of the above.

 

[Bitburger]

wow, that would be the gold standard of handling the new saw :cool2:

watching videos is a good idea, it is tough with only a few saws of experience...

 

[7sleeper]

Just go to any chainsaw shop that offers repair and have them set the carb properly. Will cost you 5-10$ I guess but it will be done properly. No need for videos or similar. If you want to do a mod later on you can begin using the search function here and read about a month only about muffler modifications = MM. Then you will be informed enough to do it yourself.

Good luck,

7

 

[mountainlake]

I'd have a hard time trusting a shop to pull the limiters and adjust, quite a few might not and just turn them out to the stops. If you do it yourself you know it's done. Steve

 

[7sleeper]

I'd have a hard time trusting a shop to pull the limiters and adjust, quite a few might not and just turn them out to the stops. If you do it yourself you know it's done. Steve

Don't know how it is in the US, but here every repairshop(electronic, car, whatever) is responsible/liable for their work! So if something breaks afterwards I have someone I can have a nice discussion with....
Further I see it as a good first step in the right direction. Listen & ask around which shop is good and go there for help. You will need many things in the future, chains, blades, chaps, 2 stroke oil, chain oil, eye & ear protection, hard hat, etc. So they will become a regular if they do their job right. And in my eyes this is a brand new saw, unmodified/unstarted/unmolested...., no magic to it.

7

 

[mountainlake]

Not that I've been in many shops but a couple I asked about pulling the caps and adjusting told me they weren't adjustable and they had burnt up saws in there shop, models with limiter caps. Most times not so good over here. Steve

 

[HuskStihl]

Another question is how will you use the saw? If the craftsman was used a dozen times in 10 years will the Echo be used similarly? If so, the most likely culprit for ruining the saw will be fuel and not carb related. I don't repair saws for a living but I bet bad gas kills more homeowner saws than improper tune. As has been said, turn the H screw CCW until it stops, make sure it "4strokes" when not loaded, and don't worry more about it. The premixed, ethanol free fuel is great for occasional users, is extremely difficult to screw up, and is more forgiving if the saw sits for long periods of time between use.
Get the thing out of the box, it is more fun that way:msp_biggrin:

 

[mountainlake]

With any new saw the caps NEED to be pulled and adjusted properly, saws with limited coils will sound like they are 4 stroking when they're actually lean. So far I've had 1 new saw that wasn't lean as it came. Steve

 

[FergusonTO35]

Hey guys, another noob here. I just bought a recent production CS400 from a pawn shop. The saw is in excellent condition and appears to have had light use, still had the original bar and chain. The chain had alot of wear so I put a new Oregon long top on it. I have the saw a good cleaning and inspection. The spark plug was a nice reddish gray color and the air filter was new. I went ahead and put anti-seize on the exhaust fasteners as I do with all my engines and found that the saw has a cat muffler. The carb adjustment screws have conventional flathead slots and will rotate in either direction by about a third of a turn.

I haven't had a chance to run the saw yet due to the rain. It looks like the previous owner was able to use it enough to wear out the chain. I'm planning to use the same 36:1 mix (92 octane gas, name brand oil, fuel stabilizer) I use in everything including my other saws and my Echo SRM225 weedeater. If the saw runs to my liking should I still do any mods? I'm not planning to hot rod it or use the saw professionally. This saw will be for firewood and property maintenance and will share the job with my other saws. Any suggestions or advice appreciated!

 

[Hedgerow]

Hey guys, another noob here. I just bought a recent production CS400 from a pawn shop. The saw is in excellent condition and appears to have had light use, still had the original bar and chain. The chain had alot of wear so I put a new Oregon long top on it. I have the saw a good cleaning and inspection. The spark plug was a nice reddish gray color and the air filter was new. I went ahead and put anti-seize on the exhaust fasteners as I do with all my engines and found that the saw has a cat muffler. The carb adjustment screws have conventional flathead slots and will rotate in either direction by about a third of a turn.

I haven't had a chance to run the saw yet due to the rain. It looks like the previous owner was able to use it enough to wear out the chain. I'm planning to use the same 36:1 mix (92 octane gas, name brand oil, fuel stabilizer) I use in everything including my other saws and my Echo SRM225 weedeater. If the saw runs to my liking should I still do any mods? I'm not planning to hot rod it or use the saw professionally. This saw will be for firewood and property maintenance and will share the job with my other saws. Any suggestions or advice appreciated!

Run it... Make sure it ain't lean... If you like it, roll with it...
If it's a turd, blame that God forsaken muffler...
I HATE cat mufflers....
HATE THEM!!!!!!
:msp_thumbdn: