Noob with successful run

[scogar]

Last weekend I ran my mill for the first time. I bought a Panther II from Kim @ PantherPro. I needed a tree taken down from pine bark beetle. It came down between Thanksgiving and Christmas and due to proximity to structures came down in 5-6 foot chunks. So it sat collecting additional bugs since then. Saturday I stripped the bark easily and cut up a few gnarly pieces for supports to elevate the log and cant it down the hill. My cobble job worked until the logs were too light to stay in place. Later I braced those on the ground at one end and through some manipulation got another slab out.

So my cuts were at 5/4 and I was impressed with the ease and accuracy of the arrangement. Now i did a lot wrong that I know and it's likely I did other things wrong that I didn't know of. What I did wrong was used my standard chain for my MS460. So the teeth were filed to 30 degrees though I didn't get curls my sawdust seemed ok (wasn't too fine) and the speed through the log was pretty quick. I sometimes bogged down a bit but learned by kinda holding the saw back from what it wanted to do I could keep the revs higher and proceed pretty quick. Another thing I did wrong was I didn't sharpen every third board or so...I probably stretched a bit but nothing seemed problematic. One run i did get a bit of smoke I could see off the chain as it exited the cut...it was fleeting but it was there. Lastly I did not run an aux oiler...I will build one after I wrap up these next three logs. They are visible from road in Subdivision so getting them taken care of is pretty high on the honey do list. So these are the things I know I did wrong.

What i don't know is about some other things that I did.

1) once my first cut was made I used the flat surface of the log to ride the mill on - so I kinda had to manhandle it and it was only on the log on the lead side of the chain with the trailing side unsupported - because the two sides are connected with a transverse bar; this allowed my cut to be level and seemed like the right way to do it but it also seemed like there is a better way where the saw is fully supported before the cut.

2) though I felt safe with the saw running properly i was on the uphill side of the log with the saw proceeding down hill.... So my torso was in direct line of the chain. Now the bar and chain were encased in the log but I couldn't help but wonder what would happen if the chain snapped - would I be cut into two little people? It just also felt like it was a little strange. I did many time place myself on the lead side of the chain so I was walking backwards and pulling the saw toward me. This felt safer on what I was doing but I am not sure I would want to do this with underbrush.


Any thoughts?

Thanks for all your help - and it feels good to be a prospect in this lumber milling club
Scott

 

[Dave Boyt]

Thanks for posting, and congratulations on a job well done. Saws are designed with a "chain catcher" and the only loggers I know who were cut by a broken chain were running saws built before the chain catcher became a standard feature. So as long as you're on the chain saw side, and no one is on the other side of the log, you're safe. I'm sure some Panther folks will have opinions regarding the cutting. Hope your neighbors don't get too fussy. When you move the stack of logs (nice job of stacking and stickering, by the way), try to have them in a place where air can circulate through the stack a little better, if you can. You've got a lot of good sawing ahead of you, and more toys to buy! An aux. oiler is a good idea for any chain saw mill cutting wider than 20".

 

[qbilder]

Saws are designed with a "chain catcher" and the only loggers I know who were cut by a broken chain were running saws built before the chain catcher became a standard feature.

When I was a young GI I saw the aftermath of a mishap. A young arborist was trimming trees around base. The guy used to come to my shop (I was a fire truck and refueling truck mechanic) to BS & skate out of work. That one day he didn't show up, a chain broke mid-cut and wrapped around his face. It nearly peeled him like a banana from the ear to ear, nose down to shoulder. I have been in combat & never seen anything so gruesome. Poor kid was probably not even old enough to drink beer. The healed scars looked more like severe burns than a cut. I'm sure it wasn't the saw's fault, but they were using Huskies. I have never heard of anything like it before or since, so it was a freak accident. I suspect it broke as it was kicking back. It's the only way I can picture it. Even then it wouldn't be under power, but could take on a whip action. Scares me just thinking of it.

OP, nice boards! It's addicting. Sometimes (a lot of times) I go get wood to mill just because I like it, with no purpose for the lumber.

 

[excess650]

Congratulatins on your first milling!

(1)As for chain, if you're not going to use ripping chain (milling chain), then try semi-chisel. I think that you'll find that it leaves a pretty smooth finish. You aren't going to get big curly chips when ripping as you're slicing the end grain rather than cross cutting or noodling. (2)As for leade-in on a previously cut log, you can use a ladder, 2x6, etc on top of the previous cut, and I like at least 2' longer than the log that I'm cutting. (3)You didn't say how long your bar is, but the 460 has an adjustable oiler, so run it wide open. Stihl also makes a higher volume oil pump, and a kit to retrofit your existing pump to higher volume.

 

[Daninvan]

2) though I felt safe with the saw running properly i was on the uphill side of the log with the saw proceeding down hill.... So my torso was in direct line of the chain. Now the bar and chain were encased in the log but I couldn't help but wonder what would happen if the chain snapped - would I be cut into two little people? It just also felt like it was a little strange. I did many time place myself on the lead side of the chain so I was walking backwards and pulling the saw toward me. This felt safer on what I was doing but I am not sure I would want to do this with underbrush.

I shared your nervousness when I first started milling. I wear chainsawing chaps, but occasionally the logs are set up so that the saw is higher than my waist for some of the cuts, and in any case while milling I normally stand facing parallel to the log rather than straight on, so I don't think the chaps are as valuable as they are when bucking. However, I definitely still wear them! Although I wear goggles to keep the dust out of my eyes, I don't wear a clear plastic visor, you could try that route as well if you felt more comfortable with it.

I have had a couple chains break on me while milling, and have seen it also happen to two other people. Every single time the chain has instantly died in the cut. I have never seen it whip around, not to say that it never would of course, but that is what I have experienced so far. I also like to drive wedges into the kerf, thinking that if a chain whips, it'll have to knock out the wedges to get to me or my helpers.

So for me, with time I have become less nervous, and have not had any bad experiences (180+ logs milled so far) yet, but I think it pays to have a healthy respect. It can go bad very quickly. Plus common sense in keeping aware of your saw, don't push your luck with a dull chain, if you see the chain is loose stop and tighten it, etc. It sounds like you are sensitive to the saw's operation which will help you; Hearing the drop in RPMs and holding the saw back a bit to keep the RPMs up, and also that the manhandling on the rougher sawn surface was undesirable.

Stay safe and have fun!

 

[TPA]

I would kindly like to question the wisdom of stacking lumber that is know to harbor insects that feed on wood next to your house which is also made of wood.

I hope you enjoy your new hobby.

 

[Daninvan]

I would kindly like to question the wisdom of stacking lumber that is know [sic] to harbor insects that feed on wood next to your house which is also made of wood.

Seems a bit farfetched with pine beetle. I don't think it attacks dried wood of any species. I would be more concerned that there is not yet a cover on the pile to protect it from the rain!

 

[scogar]

Hey guys

Thanks for all the support and input. Since I’m a country boy – northern redneck living in an Atlanta subdivision - my options for wood pile location are limited. I’m sort of the Jedd Clampett of the neighborhood and I take a great deal of enjoyment in shocking the neighbors with my antics and hobbies – blacksmithing, beer brewing, plus a bunch of other things, now milling…:hmm3grin2orange: anyway I do have to balance all this against being a good neighbor so I can’t (by homeowner’s association rules) build a proper wood storage shed and the wife won’t let me get chickens – though I argue the rules are silent as to chickens….but I digress.

These planks are stored under my deck which is about 12 feet off the ground. They are on a flat concrete slab at basement level and are about 6 inches away from the house. The prevailing winds will hit them lengthwise – not optimal but better than anywhere else I have right now. Another point that is not evident is that they are directly below a portion of the house that juts out – so there is no rainfall other than wind driven that will hit these boards. Since I do have about .5 -.7 acres I may see if I can push the boundaries by locating a small open sided shed in the very back yard abutting the creek where I can build a little shed…heck maybe I’ll build the little shed out of this and use it wet for when I can get my hands on more valuable stock. As for the bug issue a lot of the wood I buy from a local sawyer succumbed to this beetle and I have used it for years, including as my wood storage unit in the basement. I have never seen frass from this stock so I don’t expect to see it now- but I will monitor closely. The bugs that were in this particular run were the various beetle larvae that collect between the bark and the sap wood from the wood laying on the ground the past few months. They are all gone once I took the bark off.

On chain I do hope to experiment with skip, rip, angles…so I’ll Google a bit there. I do have three more logs to do this weekend so I’m going to take one of my chains and sharpen it to something less than 30 degrees. I’ll post these things as I do them or learn them.

The bar I have on the MS460 is the bar provided by my vendor – I know it’s less than 24 inch (I think it 20-21? whatever the smaller stock bar is. I wanted to see how this all worked before I invested more into it, but I am definitely going to get a bigger bar for this and rig up an aux oiler…I saw a lot of concepts in the CSM sticky.
I also like the U-Tube I saw for rails. I was going to get the ladder but I think I’ll use the U-tube and adapt it for use on the log for each cut…but that too will be next steps.

Glad to hear about the chain breaking notes – both good and bad – at least I have some thoughts and I’ll be sure to wear my chaps anyway…and it doesn’t sound like I need to break any bad habits here other than never allow myself to take this baby for granted or combine my beer brewing hobby with the milling hobby in any manner except to end my milling for the day with a homebrew.

So thanks again guys - I think I've hit all the points asked/made - and I’ll keep you posted.

Scott

 

[Jredsjeep]

if you are not allowed to build a shed just keep the wood under a table out back!

 

[scogar]

I like the table idea...maybe the only one that would look good with a 10 inch glued slab for a table top too

 

[kpantherpro]

hey thanks for the mention on my mill, but it sounds to me like you did alot more right then wrong, and you seemed considerate and respectful of your tools, I've had a chain break also, stopped dead in the cut, the unfortunate accident with the guy hit in the face probably was a result of crosscutting with too aggressive of chain resulting in kickback... even though a saw is engineered to be pretty safe, if you lose respect or don't pay attention for a second things can go wrong in an instant. A chain smoking is bad it means your making alot of heat, next time just stop and resharpen after you let it cool, as this can weaken your chain and cause breakage or even chain shot. I would also say that I even run an oiler with my smaller bars and do notice a differance in how often I have to sharpen as well as my cutting speed being increased, mount it on the return side at the tip, a drip system works very well, normally I'll use a mix of pine-sol (real not generic) and water in the auxiliary oiler and of course bar oil in ths saw oiler, there's going to be alot of choices on chains, i'll use whatever I can get my hands on, and grind it to whatever i'm cutting and the power of my saw, but normally I'll use a full chisel skip chain, seemes like it keeps my rpm's up, less bogging, and I can usually get the cool curly Q sawdust.
as far as setting on the H bar, most mills work this way, and typically you won't use the very ends of your boards anyway,from cracking or once you run one pass which is usually all that's needed in a planer with one of my mills you'll cut the ends off anyway from the scalloping of the planer.

 

[BobL]

I agree with what has been said about chain breakages while milling. The few I have broken have been nonevents and on one it was clear that the residual sawdust in the kerf had prevented it moving more than a couple of inches in the kerf. The chain has also come off the bar multiple times usually near the end of a long cut in big hardwood - also all non events because the nose clamps holds the chain along the length of the bar.

A couple of weekends ago my mum asked me to cut down a ~4' diam x about 12 ft high fruit tree for her. I have a number of working chainsaws and I grabbed the smallest one that had fuel and oil in which was my 441. Most folks here will know I am fairly safety conscious so I I picked up a pair of chaps, muffs and face shield/mask in the car and headed over to her place. I cut down the tree and then she asked me to cut it up into 2 ft lengths so over time she could dispose of it into her wheeled garbage can. I did this and then we went and had a cup of tea. When we came out to put the stuff into the can a length of the trunk was about an inch too long to fit. I had taken off my chaps etc and thought I wouldn't bother putting them back on for one cut. Problem was I didn't see that the chain was loose so that when I started and revved up the saw the chain came off the bar and caught on the chain catcher but still managed to whack me in between the legs. The chain also punctured a small hole in my jeans and in doing so took a match head size divot out of my left knee.

 

[scogar]

BobL I have read about your safety and your mills as I have learned a lot from you - thanks for this insight. I actually had a mishap with this chainsaw about 1-2 years ago. When I was less familiar with it and still thinking about safety a n awful lot (maybe not practicing it as much as I had thought - but thinking it) I was cutting at about ground level maybe a 6-8 inch limb. And all of a sudden the chain flew back and pretty much off the saw and caught on the catcher. It happened so quick and I had no idea what happened and it is a bit hazy in memory as things go. I quickly learned that one of the two nuts holding the guard at the sprocket had completely vibrated off and the other was loose.

God protects drunks and fools and that day I was the latter - hate to say what would have happened if any number of other issues had compounded. I think sometimes you are given a freebie that one was mine. I check everything now for tightness before I start and I never get in line with the blade except for now with the milling and that's horizontal pushing only. I'm a big guy but a weekend warrior so even though she can get a bit heavy bucking logs as I'm not used to it for a day's job I keep the bar below waist level and have all body parts to the left of the blade. I at least learned never lose respect before I got bit.

And I thought that was healthy respect...your case makes me realize screw it - I have the chaps I'm just gonna put the things on anyway regardless.

Scott

 

[john taliaferro]

Their is a vain on the inside of your legs they can shove a tv camera up . i learned that the hard way

 

[excess650]

Their is a vain on the inside of your legs they can shove a tv camera up . i learned that the hard way

Its actually the femoral artery, and if it gets cut and not clamped, a person can bleed to death rather quickly.

 

[qbilder]

Its actually the femoral artery, and if it gets cut and not clamped, a person can bleed to death rather quickly.

VERY quickly. The only comfort in it is that passing out from blood loss is rather pleasant, like going to sleep after a Sunday afternoon nap, so it's not a terrible way to go. Bleeding out might just be the least painful way to die, though it looks nasty.

 

[scogar]

....and would make a mess that my wife would be mighty upset at having to clean up

 

[magictoad]

I always carry a nato trauma wound dressing on me.