I respectfully disagree with you on this one. I won't hand out advice on a situation where there appears to be significant risk and the cutter is a rookie. I believe there are times when a pro is called for.
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not much of a face cut
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I respectfully disagree with you on this one. I won't hand out advice on a situation where there appears to be significant risk and the cutter is a rookie. I believe there are times when a pro is called for.
Then how would you expect the rook to ever get better?
If you are so stupid to blatantly surpass your level of skill, #### you have no business in the business.
timber falling in itself is a game of calculated risk, there is no safe tree, they all have different variables that need consideration..
I would expect a rookie to improve by being shown personally by an experienced person. I think in a dangerous situation like a leaner that just reading about how to mitigate the problem on the internet is an invitation to disaster. Some instruction requires that student have the instructor right next to him. Kind of like flying an airplane.
Well that's good, sorry you had to wait so long for your stuff. I got a set of dogs from him and they made to my house, all the way across the country in 4 days.
Agreed...up to a point. One of the reasons I seldom, if ever, reply to those goofy "how would you fall this tree" threads is that I'm not right there at the tree to look at it. Photography and diagrams are fine but unless I can walk around it, plumb it, check the lean, check the lay, watch the wind...all the things I do in real life every day, I really hesitate to make any kind of comment on it. Too many variables. I can't really assess the faller's level of skill either unless I've seen him work and seen him work for awhile. Again, too many variables. I don't mind rookies, everybody starts out that way, but too many guys on here figure if they can get a tree to fall over by gnawing away at it with a saw that they're fallers. I have more respect for the guy asking the question than some of the guys answering it sometimes.
The guys on here who know their stuff about falling, and logging in general,
are easy to identify and their information is almost always good. One of the themes that run through all of their threads is the advice to get help with any situation that you feel uncomfortable about. If your gut tells you that a falling job is dangerous...listen to your gut. Either pick somebody you damn well[ I]know[/I] is competent to help and advise you or hire a pro and watch how they make things happen.
That being said, I will chime in, and loudly too, if a situation is obviously dangerous or if the guy with the saw is doing something stupid that can hurt him. I think we owe that to each other. I've taught a few guys to fall but it sure wasn't some kind of correspondent course.
Did you just agree with me? LOL
Hey, how is the weather up your way? I just fed the horse and got drenched just opening the gate. The coast north of Santa Cruz got hit pretty hard by wind and rain. This was the area of the Lockheed fire this past summer. A reverse 911 call went out and SO was going door to door today advising people to evacuate all the low lying areas. My wife had an emergency call back today also.
hammerlogging
Addicted to ArboristSite
Roger that, you and 2dogs both, I understand your point.
I still think anyone has to be accountable for themselves, but I'll reconsider your points
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Cant argue that..
Burvol
Bullbuck
In terms of learning to fall and buck logs, everyone looks at it in a different light. I want to be as good or better than the guys in my family that came before me, as I love my Dad and what he has done with his carreer. He saw potential in me and knows I love the work. I respect what he did for me in helping me grow, therefore anything short of all that I have is complete dishonorment in my opinion.
What makes other cutters tick is their business, but I feel that if your not into trying to grow into a good log cutter and work on your game every week you should not attempt it. I am not claiming to be the cutter to end all log cutters, but I have my heart and life invested into it now and I know how it feels to crawl out of bed and do it all over again. There has to be some comitment there. There are always going to be naysayers, has beens, wash-ups and hacks who will critize the one questionable thing you did instead of walking your whole strip or an entire unit. Falling timber is a body of work, not a few sticks here and there around a landing.
When I met Bushler last fall, he was kind enough to give me a couple weeks of cutting and a place to stay. He was shovel logging cable ground out of Gold Beach. I had strip all cut except two wolfy, hammer azz Hemlocks on a wierd bench on a steep, steep face. Tan Oak cut and shotgunned friggin' every where. They both leaned up the hill pretty hard. I knew they were both going to come right back on me if I let them loose up the steep cut, so I put a Dutchman in them (not the best species to do so) and pulled them around, quarted down hill. He made a comment to me about having balls, and we talked about log cutting.
I told him that I didn't think that was a brave move. I thought falling it up that mess with no place to hardly go was. I guess it's all how you calculate the risk, and what your skill level can do with it. You can grow and learn alot if you can keep your pride in check and your ear plugs out when there is good cutter around.
What makes other cutters tick is their business, but I feel that if your not into trying to grow into a good log cutter and work on your game every week you should not attempt it. I am not claiming to be the cutter to end all log cutters, but I have my heart and life invested into it now and I know how it feels to crawl out of bed and do it all over again. There has to be some comitment there. There are always going to be naysayers, has beens, wash-ups and hacks who will critize the one questionable thing you did instead of walking your whole strip or an entire unit. Falling timber is a body of work, not a few sticks here and there around a landing.
When I met Bushler last fall, he was kind enough to give me a couple weeks of cutting and a place to stay. He was shovel logging cable ground out of Gold Beach. I had strip all cut except two wolfy, hammer azz Hemlocks on a wierd bench on a steep, steep face. Tan Oak cut and shotgunned friggin' every where. They both leaned up the hill pretty hard. I knew they were both going to come right back on me if I let them loose up the steep cut, so I put a Dutchman in them (not the best species to do so) and pulled them around, quarted down hill. He made a comment to me about having balls, and we talked about log cutting.
I told him that I didn't think that was a brave move. I thought falling it up that mess with no place to hardly go was. I guess it's all how you calculate the risk, and what your skill level can do with it. You can grow and learn alot if you can keep your pride in check and your ear plugs out when there is good cutter around.
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I've been told God gave us two ears and one mouth so we would listen to twice as much as we speak.
Great post! the comitment deffinently shows at 4:15 AM when you get out of bed & can barely lace up your boots.
Cranking a sharp saw & facing up the first stick always woke me right up though!
Why didnt you put the jacks to thoes hemlocks?
Now that question is just me wondering, nothing more.
Btw, you are lucky to have a timber faller for a Dad.
Rain...lots of it and we're glad to see it. We were still having red flag days a week ago. The snow level is high, 7 or 8 thousand, but for right now the rain is welcome. Give us a week of this, though, and we'll all be complaining about the mud.
And yeah, I took the day off. Slept in, too. Well, 'til 4 anyway. LOL
Your points were valid, too. A lot of what you say makes good sense. It's hard to generalize or make rules for situations like ours. Every tree is different, every guy is different.`Our methodology might be different but we're all wanting the same thing.
In the long run, it doesn't mean a thing. I did consider the fact that I might be an ####### for even bringing it up...
I have to agree. A bullbuck doesn't send a new guy out there by himself. I've seen several companies who have a new guy buck for an older cutter for quite a while before throwing them into the falling part of it.
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The main problem I have with guys who say "I don't care if it looks dangerous, this is how I do it" is, what happens when you're doing something dangerous or careless that ends up affecting another guy's livelihood or even their life?
My brother was hooking for a tower side and he got wiped out by some tree-length pieces left in a jackstrawed mess by some jerk-off cutter who was lazy and in a hurry. My brother was doing his job and trying to pick apart the mess. About 30 sticks broke loose and he couldn't get out of there fast enough. He lived, but with catastrophic injuries he'll be dealing with for the rest of his life. He'll never log or do anything in the woods ever again. He can't even hunt or fish now. I'm pretty angry about that, especially since the cutter responsible took an attitude like it had nothing to do with him and the rigging crew should have known better (the choker setter ended up with a fractured skull.)
My brother was hooking for a tower side and he got wiped out by some tree-length pieces left in a jackstrawed mess by some jerk-off cutter who was lazy and in a hurry. My brother was doing his job and trying to pick apart the mess. About 30 sticks broke loose and he couldn't get out of there fast enough. He lived, but with catastrophic injuries he'll be dealing with for the rest of his life. He'll never log or do anything in the woods ever again. He can't even hunt or fish now. I'm pretty angry about that, especially since the cutter responsible took an attitude like it had nothing to do with him and the rigging crew should have known better (the choker setter ended up with a fractured skull.)
Burvol
Bullbuck
Sorry to hear about your brother Jacob, that is horrible. Logging is a team sport, or is supposed to be anyway. I hope you don't think that I would make a dangerous choice in my cutting, affecting others -as I do care for the safety of others. I'm sure your brother was pissed the whole time he was in that mess, untagling it and wanting to strangle that guy. He obviously was the man on the crew to do it, but it is sad that good guys have to be shreaded meat for not only unsafe, but unproffesional practices- in any major industry.
Just another pawn in the game of "lets trash america"
No accountability.
No respect.
No ANYTHING.
Sorr to hear about that.
Wanna answer my jack(?)?
Greystoke
Tarzan
Greystoke
Tarzan
You sound like a wise man.
Greystoke
Tarzan
Sorry to hear about your Brother. Unfortunately I have noticed in my travels that there are always a few cull fallers around that pull those kinds of stunts. Unfortunately those guys call themselves "Professional Timber Fallers", when they do not even deserve the title, or to be performing their antics. As far as posting on these forums and adding our wisdom...a guy with some decent experience can usually tell who knows what they are talking about. I like to try to share from my experiences, but I also try to really think about what I am posting, always realizing that my words can be translated numerous different ways.
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