NY timber pricing and logging contracts

[JUDGE1162]

Neighbor is having his land logged, the logger stopped by to talk to me about possible logging my land, I have a forester check my land about 5 years ago and he said that he would recommend a selective cut in about 10 years to make room for some growing room in my timber stand, I told the logger this and he said that he saw a lot of nice sellable timber and that timber prices are up on hardwood and now is a good time to sell. Little more background mostly hard maple (80%) with some cherry (5%) rest is ash and birch a few pines/spruces and I have 40 acres in upstate NY.

My questions are these

I have mostly hard maples, is the logger right is the price of maple up or above average now? Is the market going up or down on maple or hardwood in general?

How is a standard or average timber contract structured? Is it a percent breakdown at the mill or do you have the loggers/mills give a set price for standing timber. While we have no spoken about terms I want to be prepared and know what to expect.

Thanks

Judge

 

[Cletuspsc]

Neighbor is having his land logged, the logger stopped by to talk to me about possible logging my land, I have a forester check my land about 5 years ago and he said that he would recommend a selective cut in about 10 years to make room for some growing room in my timber stand, I told the logger this and he said that he saw a lot of nice sellable timber and that timber prices are up on hardwood and now is a good time to sell. Little more background mostly hard maple (80%) with some cherry (5%) rest is ash and birch a few pines/spruces and I have 40 acres in upstate NY.

My questions are these

I have mostly hard maples, is the logger right is the price of maple up or above average now? Is the market going up or down on maple or hardwood in general?

How is a standard or average timber contract structured? Is it a percent breakdown at the mill or do you have the loggers/mills give a set price for standing timber. While we have no spoken about terms I want to be prepared and know what to expect.

Thanks

Judge

Maple tends to stay pritty consistant but is going up (along with most other hardwood) but like every thing its a slow climb.

You cant go wrong hiring a consultant forseter I would sugest Mike Greason who works in the catskills and the souronding areas.

usually sales are either pay as you go or a lump sum. pay as you go/mill scale: youll get a percentage of what the logger sells your wood for, in a lump sum sale you get the money before your wood is cut. thats about as simple as i can make it

 

[Walt41]

I am NOT saying there is or is not something to this but I will share.

I have watched cabinet(kitchen etc) prices from about 1992 till now, whatever seems "in style" rises in price and the wood prices seem to follow...slowly. With that being said, Maple seems to be heating up, especially with the new glazes that are being offered. Maple also seems to appeal to the people who are downsizing and building smaller homes, the lighter tones seem to make smaller spaces look bigger. (just my theory...add a dollar and you can get a Sr coffee)

 

[Curlycherry1]

Maple lumber is one of the cheaper woods I can get right now at my supplier. I just checked and their current price is $4.15/bd ft. You can work backwards from there to guesstimate how much per board foot you would get for standing timber. My guess is going to be under a buck a board foot which is not much. Veneer trees of course are better.

If it were me I would absolutely wait. 3-5 Years could make for a huge change in price. As an above poster said the finishes for maple are advancing at light speed and so it is becomming a popular cabinet wood again.

 

[HitchC&L]

As a cabinet maker, I can assure you maple is on the rise.

Almost all of our cabinets (insides) are maple plywood, unless homeowner wants different but its the most common.

We will generally use maple or cherry for the face frames, doors, etc. Again, unless the homeowner wants something different, but maple is the most common.

We will also use maple if it is getting painted, because its hard and it holds well, doesnt move around as much as other woods, and pop joints.

Im not a logger, but I can tell you that maple pricing will most likely be on the steady rise in the future. Id hang on for another 5 years like the forester told you, and selective cut it then. You also could have another forester come in and give you his opinion.

 

[Walt41]

$4.15/bf is a good deal, how much for cherry?

 

[Curlycherry1]

$4.15/bf is a good deal, how much for cherry?

About 1-2 months ago cherry (4/4) was selling for $3.35, 5/4 for $3.90. My local supplier (Youngblood Lumber, Minneapolis) had switched suppliers from a WI company to one from PA and the quality had gone way, way up. The reason I knew the 5/4 price was that while at Youngblood one day I found a lift of 12" and wider boards of clear, R2F cherry (8' long) and so I loaded up with about 200 bd ft of the best boards from the lift. When I went to pay for it I expected to be paying over $6/bd ft and so when he told me the price, I nearly pooped a brick. Then of course I went back and loaded up the rest of the wide boards in that lift and brought them home.

 

[Curlycherry1]

As a cabinet maker, I can assure you maple is on the rise.

Definately true. Ever since that prefinished maple plywood became readily available a few years ago it is being used a LOT more. It is replacing the nasty partile board cabinet carcuses because people are realizing particle board is junk when it gets wet.

Maple and Cherry cabinets are running neck and neck for popularity around here now. I have not checked on birch but ~4months ago it was the highest priced wood at over $5/bd ft for 4/4. Everybody switched to it during the downturn because it was cheap, and then demand increased and the price increased too. At one point my supplier said it got to be $2/bd ft more than cherry and maple.

 

[Walt41]

Mabye the consumers who are still buying homes can finally tell pressed board from pressed ham...finally

 

[Curlycherry1]

Mabye the consumers who are still buying homes can finally tell pressed board from pressed ham...finally

Oh now you are just dreaming.

It never ceases to amaze me to go into a million dollar house and see nice faced cabinets sitting over particle board boxes.

I get a rash just walking into an Ikea store because of all the particle board in there.

 

[Walt41]

I'm doing a new build for my MIL and just ordered the glazed maple with wood boxes and shelves, I'll wager my sawdust collection that it will be the only one for miles...besides my cherry ones in my home.

 

[woodlotguy]

I would call your forester.Most timber is saleable if even for firewood.

 

[LumberjkChamp]

I get a rash just walking into an Ikea store because of all the particle board in there.

You and I would get along so well. I can't agree more. As a matter of fact, I will never step into an Ikea as long as I live.
I am half Swedish and Ikea is all my relatives talk about. I can't stand it. They even have houses that are fully furnished with Ikea junk. I even have the stuff, its bad. About a couple months ago, I got fed up and ripped the legs off a perfectly good Ikea coffee table, put some four foot 2x4's on it to jack it up a little. I now have a practical, light duty work bench to compliment the others sitting in the barn. Gotta love it! Rep coming your way. Uh Oh, says I have to spread some around, I'll come back to ya though.

 

[Walt41]

Doesn't Ikea stand for " I Know Everythings Awful "

 

[dingeryote]

Oh now you are just dreaming.

It never ceases to amaze me to go into a million dollar house and see nice faced cabinets sitting over particle board boxes.

I get a rash just walking into an Ikea store because of all the particle board in there.

LOL!!!
I'm surpised you would walk into an IKEA store.

There is a shift going on though. Back before the bust, when we built this house, and it was time to eyeball cabinets, I was surprised to find the number of good quality, old school solid options there are.
Even the cheapo brands had a premier line of solid cabinets with dovetail joints and fewer staples.

With prices in the tank and inventorys up, the trend should continue.

I hope so... I have 5 acres of Cherry, Red Oak, and Hickory to clear come spring, and I'm at the point of crying out loud when good timber goes into the stove because it ain't worth hauling to a Mill.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote

 

[Curlycherry1]

LOL!!!
I'm surpised you would walk into an IKEA store.

There is a shift going on though. Back before the bust, when we built this house, and it was time to eyeball cabinets, I was surprised to find the number of good quality, old school solid options there are.
Even the cheapo brands had a premier line of solid cabinets with dovetail joints and fewer staples.

I was dragged into an Ikea by my wife.

Ok, true confession here. My SIL was refurbishing her house on a budget, a tight budget. Being a cabinet guy as a hobby she asked me to install them for me (where do I show up for my flogging?). Anyway I was surprised that despite the particle board the hardware was top knotch Blum Tandem hardware. Also the way it fit together was pretty impressive. Ok, there, I admitted it, I contributed to the downfall of cabinet civilization.