Oh boy, this ain't good, MS441

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It wouldn't surprise me that once the saw quit... then things got looked at a little closer.
I've also learned, when people straight gas a saw and it quits... if they realize what happened, most will dump the fuel, put mix in, and see if it will run.
A few admitted this when they brought them in. I never rule out straight gassed, even if it was brought in with mix in it. If I did not know better, I'd probably try the same thing. Can't hurt I guess. lol
 
Arrowhead said:
It wouldn't surprise me that once the saw quit... then things got looked at a little closer.
I've also learned, when people straight gas a saw and it quits... if they realize what happened, most will dump the fuel, put mix in, and see if it will run.
A few admitted this when they brought them in. I never rule out straight gassed, even if it was brought in with mix in it. If I did not know better, I'd probably try the same thing. Can't hurt I guess. lol
Click to expand...

From the quick look, I didnt really see straight gas damage on the intake side. It would have had to been a bad accident for these guys to straight gas one.
 
Andyshine77 said:
Mark I ended up using an aftermarket top end from Northwood saw, right now they're on sale for 73 bucks.Chainsaw Parts[match]=all&s[search]=ms441&s[title]=Y&s[short_desc]=Y&s[full_desc]=Y&s[cid]=0&s[subcats]=Y&s[mid]=0&s[sku]=&s[price_from]=&s[price_to]=&s[weight_from]=&s[weight_to]= The kit wasn't all that bad looking and the saw seemed to run fine.
Click to expand...

Thanks Andy, that might be a option.
 
Arrowhead said:
It wouldn't surprise me that once the saw quit... then things got looked at a little closer.
I've also learned, when people straight gas a saw and it quits... if they realize what happened, most will dump the fuel, put mix in, and see if it will run.
A few admitted this when they brought them in. I never rule out straight gassed, even if it was brought in with mix in it. If I did not know better, I'd probably try the same thing. Can't hurt I guess. lol
Click to expand...

100% correct Nik had that happen a few weeks ago.
 
Modifiedmark said:
From the quick look, I didnt really see straight gas damage on the intake side. It would have had to been a bad accident for these guys to straight gas one.
Click to expand...

No, I'm not saying straight gassed. Just giving an example how some people only pay attention to their saw when it quits. Recheck, retighten, etc...
then see if it will run.
 
I snapped a couple pics of my filter and carb. The filter has'nt been cleaned today. I ran it for maybe 4-5 hours, about 5-6 tanks of fuel. It's really not even dirty, but thats not the point. Notice the carb. I've never wiped out that area since having this saw ported. It has around 20 tanks or so on it I'm figuring. No noticeable dirt. It would seem that the filter on the saw in this thread had to have been ran loose at one point to have gathered so much trash.

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zogger said:
my phreeking () key is intermittent. Amazing how many words you need that dang key.
Click to expand...

My dddd key is the same way.

Run a screwdriver or something across the threads to stop the wingnut from backing off.
Works good for bar nuts too.
 
Mark i had a filter on my 660 that i used to run without the main cover and used a wingnut set up simmilar to the 441 and i discovered that the centre was bottoming out before it sealed up around the base ,i found it don't matter how tight it is it still won't seal,worth looking into:cheers:
 
Charcoal factory on the sides of the exhaust port.
The intake has fines in/on every possible place to be seen.
The entire saw is "flocked" and looks to have been run that way for a while.
you say the h needle is screwed in.
-
they never cleaned the filter, explains the needle adjustment.

air filter really tight.
would the marks in the bottom of the fastener hole
indicate a distorted/cracked filter body?
or the intake housing flexed/distorted.
also the gunky looking spot from 10:00 to 6:00 around the hole
looks like the filter and the housing were really close together.
(nother ? on the distorted parts thing)

Forgive me if I'm missing something here, or ignorant of assembly details.
Just gawking at the two pics and surmising some stuff,
from afar.
 
My 441's filter looks like Anthony_VA's after running it all day. I've never heard of a problem with the air filter on the 441. Its filtration setup is light years ahead of a 460/440. I'd have to say that the nut fell off and it wasn't put back on until after the saw quit running. Kind of like Arrowhead's analogy with the straight gas. The last time I checked for 441 parts on Chainsawr they had a few good used OEM pistons and cylinders. They are a great company to deal with. Good Luck!
 
Got some time to dig into this 441 tonight. I basically am new to these so was just asking you guys who were into these if there were any quirks or problems out of the ordinary that I should look for. Dont seem like there are any.

I had to fab up some block off plates but I got em made and did a pressure and vac test on the saw. It passed both with flying colors. I went ahead and tore it down and think I came up with a combination of things when all together caused the melt down.

After removing the carb I am sure that the H screw was just to the lean side of center on the adjustment range of the limiters.

I also tore the carb down and found that the screen on the pump side of the carb was not letting fuel through it hardly at all.
Although it looked clean it was coated with something that wouldnt let the fuel through, and like I said earlier I have seen that more then once lately.

Last but not least I tested the fuel in the tank of the saw and it tested to 20% ethanol which is not good. I'm certain it was the combination of these three things that caused the lean condition.

I talked to the owner of the saw tonight and he is going to get a P/C for it. Not sure if he is going with OEM or aftermarket yet. I told him to let his wallet be his guide. :msp_rolleyes:

As for the filter, he did tell me that they cleaned it now and then but to the best that he can remember that it never came loose on its own. I did look and it was a HD2 filter and it was really pretty clean.

I took a couple pictures.

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A couple more and I know that my skill at taking photos of the inside of cyls is lacking. The cyl has a lot of transfer, not sure if its worth the trouble trying to see if it would clean up or not. If it was my saw, maybe...

One thing I did tell him was to first thing in the morning go out and dump his fuel can and dump the fuel out of all his saws and I think he has about 6 more.

I told him to then get some fresh fuel, treat it with Stabil Ethanol treatment and then refill all the saws and let each one run for 5 minutes to get this old mix out of them.

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Modifiedmark said:
Got some time to dig into this 441 tonight. I basically am new to these so was just asking you guys who were into these if there were any quirks or problems out of the ordinary that I should look for. Dont seem like there are any.

I had to fab up some block off plates but I got em made and did a pressure and vac test on the saw. It passed both with flying colors. I went ahead and tore it down and think I came up with a combination of things when all together caused the melt down.

After removing the carb I am sure that the H screw was just to the lean side of center on the adjustment range of the limiters.

I also tore the carb down and found that the screen on the pump side of the carb was not letting fuel through it hardly at all.
Although it looked clean it was coated with something that wouldnt let the fuel through, and like I said earlier I have seen that more then once lately
Click to expand...


The coating on the screen is likely from the additives in the fuel. Just last week I saw the same exact thing in a hedge trimmer. My local dealer, who is in fact quite knowledgeable, insisted the coating was from the fuel additives. The coating was light gray and hard to see until I pulled the screen, it came off in one piece.

That piston has seen better days for sure lol. I think you have the correct diagnosis. Not all of the that is alcohol IMHO, if I were a betting man I'd say that fuel has a bit of moisture in it.

BTW I like the block off plates, good work!!
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the update.

mercy, that space between
"not a good idea and OH ****" percent
starts to seem awfully small, when you're gazing at that test bottle
 

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