MasterBlaster
TreeHouse Elder
NeTree said:One should NEVER one-hand a saw.
Hahahaha!!!
one-handing
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Hahahaha!!!
clearance
Addicted to ArboristSite
Okietree- M. Ali said 'it aint bragging if its true" Seriously, sorry if I was a little uppity. Im not the worlds best climber, I know lots of guys who are better than me. Most of my experience is strip&chunk removal or side limbing trees ground to sky around powerlines. When you do line clearance you never pull anything towards yourself, always push it away. If something does go wrong, like a top or branch heading towards the line, cut it off!
xander9727
The Silverback
clearance said:
I stand by the idea that cutting yourself with a chainsaw is stupid.
Additionally, you have no idea what I climb. If it needs a rope, it needs a rope. If it's small enough to toss a couple of swipes with a zubat will put it in my hand.
clearance
Addicted to ArboristSite
Xander you are right that I have no idea what you climb, and I dont know what a zubat is, sounds like some kind of magical handsaw. Years ago I cut myself real bad with a 266 when I was spacing (thinning) out in the bush. It wasnt a stupid accident because I learned something. I learned respect for chainsaws after seeing my own blood and meat but it is respect not fear. Out here most people only rope branches they cant hold guess I have to get a zubat.
Stumper
One Man Band
For me cut and toss is handsaw work-unless I'm blocking down a spar. In that case I can cut,stop, grab, toss without wrapping my arm up and over a running saw-2 hands on the saw. I do one hand a chainsaw upon occasion. I believe in 2 hand saw use. I like the redheaded step-child of climbing saws -the 019T/191T specifically because the swept handle configuration allows the greatest 2-hand reach in awkward situations. However,there is a time for one hand use in my opinion. I feel no shame in reaching across the tree to onehand off a branch that I would have difficulty reachingwith both hands. Some say reposition but I say "Faugh!. If I can reach it from here and cut one handed in a position where my body isn't exposed to the saw then I'm cutting from here, thanks."
spacemule
The Peanut Gallery
Are you going to do it until you're blind?MasterBlaster said:
Ax-man
Addicted to ArboristSite
Clearance,
You asked how can you cut a limb to be sure it won't "pop" answer practice by not one handing a chain saw.
Larry
You asked how can you cut a limb to be sure it won't "pop" answer practice by not one handing a chain saw.
Larry
Ekka
Addicted to ArboristSite
Hey MB
Nice pics.
I noticed that when you used 2 hands you were cutting above shoulder/neck height anyway!!
And was the cig a "roll your own" or a tailor made?
And when you were hanging out one handed cutting that pine limb there was only 1 attachment point too!
Hmm, and how long have you been self employed? Because an employer would be obligated to bust you.
And that my friend is exactly why I'm self employed ... I have to remind the guys daily, do as I say not as I do because you work for me and I not for you.
We also cut a lot of palms here, imagine not doing the head and all those fronds one handed? Your always holding the frond and cutting it off, and a lot of the times cutting above shoulder height. So, in the real world, yes one handed use is prevalent and productive, and yes it is bad but if your self employed who gives a ????!
Maybe some of the primma boys wouldn't make these rules if they had to abide by them.
Nice pics.
I noticed that when you used 2 hands you were cutting above shoulder/neck height anyway!!
And was the cig a "roll your own" or a tailor made?
And when you were hanging out one handed cutting that pine limb there was only 1 attachment point too!
Hmm, and how long have you been self employed? Because an employer would be obligated to bust you.
And that my friend is exactly why I'm self employed ... I have to remind the guys daily, do as I say not as I do because you work for me and I not for you.
We also cut a lot of palms here, imagine not doing the head and all those fronds one handed? Your always holding the frond and cutting it off, and a lot of the times cutting above shoulder height. So, in the real world, yes one handed use is prevalent and productive, and yes it is bad but if your self employed who gives a ????!
Maybe some of the primma boys wouldn't make these rules if they had to abide by them.
bad bad bad
its bad and we shouldn't do it, chances are we do though.
if its one handed (cut and catch) i will catch, knock the chainbrake on using the stub, tree etc drop the saw onto the strop and then deal with the limb. if its too heavy i will find another way.
i tend to one hand like in MB pics
jamie
its bad and we shouldn't do it, chances are we do though.
if its one handed (cut and catch) i will catch, knock the chainbrake on using the stub, tree etc drop the saw onto the strop and then deal with the limb. if its too heavy i will find another way.
i tend to one hand like in MB pics
jamie
clearance said:
That is true, but me personally, I'd want to be sure. I have seen chain brakes not operate from inertia, but the handle is 100% effective. I have one other question, You're in line clearance, and using a wire core lanyard?
greg carr
ArboristSite Member
I used to one hand until the day I realized I couldnt even lift the saw with one hand because my elbow and shoulder are so bad.18 years I thought I had a perfect no injury record, turns out I was hurting myself every day.
OutOnaLimb
ArboristSite Guru
I try not to do it, but Im not saying that I dont do it. Sometimes thats the only way to reach out an nip off that piece way out there. When I do do it I always make sure Im tied in at a second location, ie WPL or Double crotched.
Kenn
Kenn
clearance
Addicted to ArboristSite
alanarbor, yes I use a scare strap with a steel core for line clearance. I think I know why you ask steel=conductive. Here we are governed by strict limits of approach-that is how close you can be to the line. There are 2 tables for a C.U.A.. Table B is for the climbers body and anything else conductive like a chainsaw, scare strap, rope etc. Table A is for dielectrically tested tools (Jamison pole pruner). Table B also includes any inadvertant movement. Example, on a 25kv line table B is 4ft. Table A is 1.5ft. So you make sure the tail of your strap never violates that 4ft. My strap has a rope snap that clips on one d-ring and a mechanical slck adjuster that clips on the other d-ring.
okietreedude1
ArboristSite Guru
clearance said:
Sorry man, I TOTALLY disagree with that one. It there is a limb over the line, you mean to tell me your just going to cut it off and let it go???? NOT me. Ill under cut it pulling it back so I can get my hands on it safely and throw it to the ground butt first like im spearing something.
Maybe that truely is the wrong way to do it, but thats what I was taught and thats what all my coworkers do.
Same would apply for trimming something over a roof, pretty flower bed, fiberglass patio cover, car,....
Times things are a little to long, in comes a webbing loop w/ a biner to get a hold of farther out. And the hand saw comes into play as well.
Any other guys here w/ line experince want to help out?
MasterBlaster
TreeHouse Elder
I pull stuff to me all the time, lines or no lines.
No one's going to tell you the two hands on the saw rule is so you'll put down the D#*% cell phone while you're working. The rule needs to be there. First time saw users and home owners are the ones likely to be injured. Until you get used to a saw you need both hands on it to get the feel for what the saw can/will do. Then there is safety. The inertia brake is a wonderful thing, saved me a scar or two. Compare it to the both hands on the wheel when you drive, do you have both hands on the wheel or are you on the cell phone? What are the odds you'll be in an accident with a cell phone in your hands? It's the same with the saws if you one hand them you're more likely to have an accident whether it's a cell phone or a limb in your other hand. I one hand on occasion but usually two hand the saws. It's safer with two hands. It takes time to get used to the saw and the safest way to operate a saw is with both hands on the saw. Another thing I see a lot of is guys standing or positioning themselves directly in the path of the saw if it kicksback instead of to the left or right of the saw so if the saw takes off it has a clear path instead of a body to make contact with. I don't buy the idea that top handle saws are any more likely to have you one handing than a rear handle, as someone already said the rear handle, one handed, is more reach and just as unsafe but you see it being used. There is no way to make tools idiot proof so there are rules to follow to help you stay out of harms way.
clearance
Addicted to ArboristSite
Sorry guys I should have been more specific. Whan I say push it away I am talking about overhang, branches that if cut right through would fall on the line. If the swing of the branch when its cut will not violate my B limits then yes, I hold on with one hand, cut with the other and throw it down. I get the branch to swing into the trunk usually. What I am getting at is that you can never let a branch touch the line while you are holding it or its still attached.
ccooperabbs
ArboristSite Lurker
Bit of bed time reading for those interested.
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Clearance, Are you for real?
Canada seems a bit more strict on safety than the US. I can't believe steel core fliplines would be legal there, because they aren't here. Also, can't believe one handing would be legal.
Also, what's up with pushing everything toward the wires? The last thing you want is to touch them with anything. I always pulled away from the wires, unless I was sure it would clear the other side(rare). Since you never want to turn your back from the wires, your work zone is between yourself and the wires. The first thing we'd do is cut a hole for the brush to go through. Then make your cuts so the brush goes through the hole without making contact. If that's not possible it's slice and dice time, gotta make sure the pieces are too short to reach you, or close a circuit, and too light to knock down the lines.
Canada seems a bit more strict on safety than the US. I can't believe steel core fliplines would be legal there, because they aren't here. Also, can't believe one handing would be legal.
Also, what's up with pushing everything toward the wires? The last thing you want is to touch them with anything. I always pulled away from the wires, unless I was sure it would clear the other side(rare). Since you never want to turn your back from the wires, your work zone is between yourself and the wires. The first thing we'd do is cut a hole for the brush to go through. Then make your cuts so the brush goes through the hole without making contact. If that's not possible it's slice and dice time, gotta make sure the pieces are too short to reach you, or close a circuit, and too light to knock down the lines.
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
The young fellah askd why it's bad.
1. no man alive can control the force of a kickback incident
2. noone, no matter how experiance can predict wher the saw will go after the cickback.
3. the clutch will help, but it still takes time to engage, and that time can be more the it takes to touch your skin.
I've known several good, experianced climbers who have had close calls with kickback while onehanding, they all have been suprised at where the saw ended up, and they all thought they had good, safe body positioning when they started cutting.
My personal code is to do it as little as possible, the reason it is in the ANSI (and whatever the Canadian equivialant is) standards is to protect the worker from having the forman force them into unsafe habits/practice to increace productivity, and to protect the employer, who institues good saftey programs from the careless, lazy climber.
Yes, that is what i said, regular one handing is an unsafe, lazy method of operation. Anytime you use a higher risk method when there is a viable substitues you are not operating smart. We do this day in day out, there are enough risks inherant to the trade (especailly ROW veg. maint.) to carelessly role the dice several times a day.
Liek Tom says repeatedly, we have people who want us to come home,a nd need us to go bak to work every day. We should strive to do this in as safe a manner as possible, not as fast a manner as possible.
"Ahhhchewwwww, hey where's that blood coming from?"
1. no man alive can control the force of a kickback incident
2. noone, no matter how experiance can predict wher the saw will go after the cickback.
3. the clutch will help, but it still takes time to engage, and that time can be more the it takes to touch your skin.
I've known several good, experianced climbers who have had close calls with kickback while onehanding, they all have been suprised at where the saw ended up, and they all thought they had good, safe body positioning when they started cutting.
My personal code is to do it as little as possible, the reason it is in the ANSI (and whatever the Canadian equivialant is) standards is to protect the worker from having the forman force them into unsafe habits/practice to increace productivity, and to protect the employer, who institues good saftey programs from the careless, lazy climber.
Yes, that is what i said, regular one handing is an unsafe, lazy method of operation. Anytime you use a higher risk method when there is a viable substitues you are not operating smart. We do this day in day out, there are enough risks inherant to the trade (especailly ROW veg. maint.) to carelessly role the dice several times a day.
Liek Tom says repeatedly, we have people who want us to come home,a nd need us to go bak to work every day. We should strive to do this in as safe a manner as possible, not as fast a manner as possible.
"Ahhhchewwwww, hey where's that blood coming from?"
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