Pioneer chainsaws

[briantutt]

P25 Cylinder

How do I get the last bolt out of this P25 cylinder? Can't get a wrench or normal socket/swivel on it. Do I have to buy a swivel socket?

 

[propliner]

Brian, you might just need to try another wrench. I have one that works and one that doesn't. Try using the box end of a good quality wrench that has a thin wall.
Brendon.

 

[briantutt]

Brian, you might just need to try another wrench. I have one that works and one that doesn't. Try using the box end of a good quality wrench that has a thin wall.
Brendon.

Aah yes, there are thin wall box end wrenches in the lab at work. If all else fails I can check one of those out.

 

[WesternSaw]

Iel

Real nice saw you have there Artie BC.did that IEL cut those logs?
Lawrence

 

[P62]

Iel dd

Artie
That IEL is one of the nicest I have seen. Looks like its still in it's work clothes. The IEL decal on the top is a dandy as well. Original or new??
Jeff

 

[Lou]

Not mine - yours?

I know nothing about it except it showed up on my local craigslist.
Lou
2nd post for this saw
http://seattle.craigslist.org/oly/tls/1484004360.html

 

[Jacob J.]

I know nothing about it except it showed up on my local craigslist.
Lou
2nd post for this saw

He's raised the price on it too...

 

[crane]

Artie,

That is a real nice looking "DD". Looks like you might need arms the size of those rounds to pack that saw around all day. Was it a family saw, or one you picked up?
Cheers for posting those pics.
Drew

To add to Lawrence's question, were those logs in the pic, bucked with that saw?

 

[crane]

Brian, you might just need to try another wrench. I have one that works and one that doesn't. Try using the box end of a good quality wrench that has a thin wall.
Brendon.

+1

One of the carb bolts on the Remington Bantam series is like that. I bought a cheap single wrench and ground it down so it was thin enough to fit. Just be careful not to get it too hot when grinding, it will take the temper out of the metal and the wrench will become too soft. I ground a little on the bench grinder, then cooled in water, repeat process till it is where you want it.

Drew

 

[briantutt]

P25 piston/cylinder

Brendon, Good thing the new piston is on it's way

Can the cylinder be honed? Looks like the carbon by the muffler port did some damage. My 1073 still runs looking a lot worse than this but I would think if the piston was good and the cylinder honed it would be a lot better especially with fully synth oil...

 

[artie__bc]

I'll try to answer all the questions in one post.

Jerry, the DD had a number of differences from the DC preceding it. The easiest one to spot is, of course, the the colour. The clutch & transmission were new, the front handle was strengthened, and the oil pump was given more volume. The bar mounting was changed to two larger studs, rather than the 3 small ones previously. Also a big improvement was the change to a Fairbanks-Morse starter rather than the IEL cable rewind. They also enlarged the muffler outlet, presumably to gain a bit of power. The DC and the DD had the bore increased from 2" to 2.0625".

Lawrence, I cut a cookie off the larger log with it, you can see the pieces lying on the ground behind the saw in the second pic. I brought that log home to see if I could salvage any lumber out of it, but it was shook too bad. Got lots of pre-split firewood out of it though!

Jeff, it's all original except the fuel hose. The decals are still in surprisingly good shape. I took pictures of them to get repros made, If anyone needs.

Drew, yes it is a bit heavy by modern standards. Slow and buzzy too. It took a while to chew through that piece of fir; it was 42" in diameter and the saw has a 36" bar, so it was a full cut. The 9/16" chain makes big chips though! I bought the saw a while ago, but it has no family or other significance.

 

[Brmorgan]

Brian - It's kinda hard to tell from the picture whether that's damage to the cylinder plating, or aluminum transfer from the piston. Since the damage to the piston is only above the rings, it could very well be carbon damage. I have a couple old saws with pistons like that though, and they run fine because the damage is only above the rings, so they still get good compression. Their cylinders aren't damaged like yours though.

To determine if yours is aluminum transfer or not, touch some Hydrochloric (Muriatic) acid to it with a Q-tip; it should bubble and slowly dissolve any aluminum present, and won't really react with the chrome plating at all unless left for a long time. This would need to be repeated a few times, and once the aluminum is pretty much gone, you can hit it with some 400-grit sandpaper to buff it smooth.

I've never used a hone, but I've repeatedly seen others here strongly recommend not using one with chainsaw engines since the plating is so thin and is easy to burn right through. And, if yours turns out to be actual damage and wear through the plating anyway, a hone's just going to make it a lot worse very quickly.

 

[pioneerguy600]

Thanks again for all that info on the IEL Super Pioneer DD. They were not plentiful over here on this side but there was a few I got to handle but they were the older DA,DB and DC models. There was also a Super Twin on a farm over in the next county, they had a sawmill and a woods crew in the winter. The Super Twin had the two man setup on it and as young fellas we called it the wheelbarrow saw refering to the handle setup and of course needing the second guy on the stinger as the wheel. If I remember correctly it had huge chain cutter teeth on it, something like 3/4" pitch, the chips from the chain were thick and large compared to what comes off modern chain.
Pioneerguy600

 

[propliner]

Brian - It's kinda hard to tell from the picture whether that's damage to the cylinder plating, or aluminum transfer from the piston. Since the damage to the piston is only above the rings, it could very well be carbon damage. I have a couple old saws with pistons like that though, and they run fine because the damage is only above the rings, so they still get good compression. Their cylinders aren't damaged like yours though.

To determine if yours is aluminum transfer or not, touch some Hydrochloric (Muriatic) acid to it with a Q-tip; it should bubble and slowly dissolve any aluminum present, and won't really react with the chrome plating at all unless left for a long time. This would need to be repeated a few times, and once the aluminum is pretty much gone, you can hit it with some 400-grit sandpaper to buff it smooth.

I've never used a hone, but I've repeatedly seen others here strongly recommend not using one with chainsaw engines since the plating is so thin and is easy to burn right through. And, if yours turns out to be actual damage and wear through the plating anyway, a hone's just going to make it a lot worse very quickly.

I agree with this advice. Brian, I'd wait and put this other piston and cylinder I'm sending on. It's ready to go as is.

 

[briantutt]

I agree with this advice. Brian, I'd wait and put this other piston and cylinder I'm sending on. It's ready to go as is.

Of course! I am in no hurry at all. I didn't realize you were sending a cylinder too! Problem solved.

How do I split the case? I can seperate the handle area a bit but when I get up by the carb area it won't budge. Is there a way to put a puller on the crank and bolt it to the case, use that to pull it apart?

 

[P62]

Pioneer Partner P45

Picked up another new saw on Black Friday. This is the first P45 that I have owned. The saw is in good running order but required a lot of cleaning. Looked like the top rubber mounts needed to be replaced but turned out it needed all 6. This brings up the question does anyone have a tool to remove the old rubber mounts once they have separated. None of the mountes were torn. All 6 had the rubber separated from the stud. I drilled the old ones and used a screw extractor. Time consuming. The bottom was easier to replace the bottom handle with a spare. May have to move a few extra saws soon. I have a couple of good running P41's and a P41 & Farmsaw for parts.

 

[artie__bc]

Jerry I guess the "H" series was probably marketed more heavily on the East Coast as pulpwood saws & you probably saw more of them. I think they were a handier design than these "D" saws, even before the HM with the diaphragm carb. But to me the "D"s looked better.

The Super Twins ran 3/4" pitch chain, but it was of a narrow gauge that is NLA, so if you can find some it's worth having.

 

[artie__bc]

P62, I tap the mount studs loose with a small sharp chisel & hammer, then spin them out the rest of the way with a needlenose. They usually aren't that tight, one or two light taps will suffice. Just put the chisel right at the outside edge & tap it counterclockwise.

PS What's that wheel off of, behind your nice saw?

 

[P62]

P45

P62, I tap the mount studs loose with a small sharp chisel & hammer, then spin them out the rest of the way with a needlenose. They usually aren't that tight, one or two light taps will suffice. Just put the chisel right at the outside edge & tap it counterclockwise.

PS What's that wheel off of, behind your nice saw?

I have gotten lucky a few times with needles nose and the chisel method before but the 2 in the top were a hand full. Wondering if Pioneer ever made a tool. The cast iron wheel is off a Cockshutt Plow. I collect Pioneer saws and also like the old cast, grain drill ends, implement wrenches,etc. excellent trading material.

 

[pioneerguy600]

I have gotten lucky a few times with needles nose and the chisel method before but the 2 in the top were a hand full. Wondering if Pioneer ever made a tool. The cast iron wheel is off a Cockshutt Plow. I collect Pioneer saws and also like the old cast, grain drill ends, implement wrenches,etc. excellent trading material.

Pioneer did make a tool for that very purpose, I actually owned one and have not seen it for a long time. I should be able to find the part number for them as I have seen them in my repair manuals, I will see what I can find.
Pioneerguy600