What grinding chatter are you referring to, which pic?
Porting, You get what you pay for
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What grinding chatter are you referring to, which pic?
No problem.
I do think you may be getting ahead of yourself a bit, most grinding doesn't look as pretty as most would think, especially if you don't sand things after grinding, it's not always possible or necessary. Pretty doesn't necessarily mean better.
CapitaineHaddoc
European Westcoaster
I had the same thing on one of my saw. From the same builder I think.
Big_Wood
westcoast dweller
No problem.
I do think you may be getting ahead of yourself a bit, most grinding doesn't look as pretty as most would think, especially if you don't sand things after grinding, it's not always possible or necessary. Pretty doesn't necessarily mean better.
i have ran quite a few of polished pretty port saws that ran no better then stock saws. really just say'n..my look on the whole thing is terry makes the best 562's around. should he detune his saws just to make more money for port work? a firewood hack in support of the ball gobbler might think so but i do not. terry should collect what others do. it's just like many artists say. "it's not that we take half hour, it's that we learned to do the equivelent of 4 hrs work in half hour. the ball gobler takes what he does because he gobbles balls and he will always gobble balls. he gobbles many balls as big as he can because he is a forum whore!
warranty issues aside, I think 'the customer' got one _ _ _ _ of a good deal!!!!
$700 new for the powerhead, and taken apart and modified - out the door for a lousy $200.00 additonal!
if the modifier is a specialist on this saw then its only fair to assume he dosen't send out his work with junk and crud still in the transfer ports... the scratches came from somewhere, but the stains on the outside of the cyl base say more than 4 hrs to me. but of course, i suppose we have to go with the 4 hrs.take the saw apart, pop the cyl... set up and machine the cyl base... clean out the majority of casting flash in 1) bottom transfers b) inake port c) exhaust port d) cut cyl transfer + cut the base and set the squish... clean it all up and then reassemble it... run it and tune it... for a lousy $200.00!!!
are you kidding me? I read this thread as there just ain't a lot of $$ in saw porting... who knows what happened once the customer got ahold of it... ? I bet the mfgr of this saw does not see very many warranty calls on main bearings... on a new saw? neglect, or abuse maybe but not OE assembly ~ not on main bearings!!now... before anyone chooses to bash me or my post... just know... I am very exp'd in modifying and porting air metering devices for internal combustion engines... computer controlled and non. 2-stoke some, 4-cycle a zillion and then some. I have done at least, several thousand! in fact, I hold a US Patent for specialized designs in this field to improve bottom end torque, etc.. ie, specialized porting. when it comes to sanding, filing and scraping [facetious for porting] aluminum, I have been there and done that!! I agree the quality of work is rough by porter's standards, but for $40.00 or $50.00 worth of putting a flute to it and knowing where to put it... its more than a good value! the
Customer got a bargain!!!
ps: I am still curious as to why the piston shows exhaust trax opposite of the arrow on crown. please consider a PM to me if u don't want to post it here...
albert
Addicted to ArboristSite
[QUOTE="blsnelling, post:
On the other hand, the really question to me is, what was charged for this "port job". I've caught a lot of flack for doing similar mods and calling it Stage 1. Since no real port work was done, it's worth far less money. If the owner paid $250-$300 for these mods, he got ripped off. The work simply isn't there.[/QUOTE]
You being a person that mods saws, should keep judgements like this to yourself. You did not know how much it cost, but you put up the price range you charge and stated they were "ripped off" if they paid that amount for the work that was done. Turns out it was less. Maybe a saw done like this could out cut one of yours, who knows. This maybe a hobby for you, but not everyone has the luxury of no overhead ect. Your tone comes across my saw has way more work in it then this or that guys. Maybe others have figured out how to make a better performing saw by doing them differently than you. By the way I am not looking for trouble, if I was, I could post up some real knock outs.
On the other hand, the really question to me is, what was charged for this "port job". I've caught a lot of flack for doing similar mods and calling it Stage 1. Since no real port work was done, it's worth far less money. If the owner paid $250-$300 for these mods, he got ripped off. The work simply isn't there.[/QUOTE]
You being a person that mods saws, should keep judgements like this to yourself. You did not know how much it cost, but you put up the price range you charge and stated they were "ripped off" if they paid that amount for the work that was done. Turns out it was less. Maybe a saw done like this could out cut one of yours, who knows. This maybe a hobby for you, but not everyone has the luxury of no overhead ect. Your tone comes across my saw has way more work in it then this or that guys. Maybe others have figured out how to make a better performing saw by doing them differently than you. By the way I am not looking for trouble, if I was, I could post up some real knock outs.
I am not sure the title choice was the best. I suspect there is shipping and insurance not just shipping as has been put in the text of everything I have read.
As to what is porting, I have seen threads where this builder has plainly shown what they do. If the bottom of the cylinder is cut the porting changes. I do not think I have seen the term decked on here so without a bunch of definitions you can see where that leads.
What the "computer readout" can tell was vague in the post 1 and the follow up, only one read it twice omitted stating no codes when sent out last time.
The comment since the saw owner has sufficient money to buy a new saw and have it modified he should realize a risk factor has been raised. If that is the consensus at this point should be factored into a choice of just buying a Husqvarna 390 or the Jonsored version instead which I think is some of the point of posting this in the first place.
I also failed to notice phone time mentioned in the same place as porting prices. Phone can be a recreational activity as well so hard to know what to make of two 45 min calls so far one before and one after disassembly as I recall.
As to what is porting, I have seen threads where this builder has plainly shown what they do. If the bottom of the cylinder is cut the porting changes. I do not think I have seen the term decked on here so without a bunch of definitions you can see where that leads.
What the "computer readout" can tell was vague in the post 1 and the follow up, only one read it twice omitted stating no codes when sent out last time.
The comment since the saw owner has sufficient money to buy a new saw and have it modified he should realize a risk factor has been raised. If that is the consensus at this point should be factored into a choice of just buying a Husqvarna 390 or the Jonsored version instead which I think is some of the point of posting this in the first place.
I also failed to notice phone time mentioned in the same place as porting prices. Phone can be a recreational activity as well so hard to know what to make of two 45 min calls so far one before and one after disassembly as I recall.
The whole idea that you get paid for how much work you do is misguided and a good way to end up doing piece work. You get paid for what you know to a much larger extent in the real world.
Philip Wheelock
Finis Origine Pendet
Best part about this sorry thread is tlandrum's response. Convincing and honorable.
Theres not much discussion left after that IMO.
All I want to add to this thread is my dealings with Terry. I had a 562 that had the off-idle bog really bad. I bought the saw online (ebay) from a dealer in Florida. The dealer in Florida pretty much refused to do any kind of warranty work on it ("just take it to your local dealer, any dealer can work on them, and save you shipping the saw too"). My local dealer didn't have the diagnostic tool, and didn't plan to get it anytime soon. (???!!) Terry was happy to work on the saw for me, ended up replacing the carb, and upgrading the software I think. He did it in a reasonable amount of time, only charged me for a decomp plug and shipping. The saw ran fantastic for the next two years that I owned it. I really appreciated Terry taking my saw in for work even though he didn't sell it to me. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a saw from Terry, cause I'm sure if anything went wrong, he'd make sure the customer was taken care of.... Just my opinion
Chris J.
Addicted to ArboristSite
I'm quoting tlandrum / terry here only because I'm seeing some posts made after his from some people who clearly haven't read his response, or the entire thread.
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As for the OP keeping the builder's name out of this...
Nate, I'm not clear on your intent, and yes I've read the explanations offered in this thread. Perhaps I'm wrong, perhaps I'm reading too much into some of the posts, but it seems to me that quite a few hints--some not so subtle--were dropped as the thread progressed.
I'm guessing most AS regulars figured out the builder once it was revealed that the saw in question was a Jonsered purchased new and modified while new by the seller before it was sent to the customer.
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As for the OP keeping the builder's name out of this...
Nate, I'm not clear on your intent, and yes I've read the explanations offered in this thread. Perhaps I'm wrong, perhaps I'm reading too much into some of the posts, but it seems to me that quite a few hints--some not so subtle--were dropped as the thread progressed.
I'm guessing most AS regulars figured out the builder once it was revealed that the saw in question was a Jonsered purchased new and modified while new by the seller before it was sent to the customer.
Chris-PA
Where the Wild Things Are
I don't really think that Nate was trying to do anything malicious with this thread - it appears he was trying to support a customer that came to him. And Terry's explanation seemed reasonable to me too.
I've had a lot of fun modding some of my own saws, but I would not ever want to sell that service. First of all I'm not equipped in terms of facility or tools, but mainly I would not want to take on the liability. I learned a lot (although I'm still a total novice / hobbyist), and some of those things are that:
I work doing product design and development and there is a manufacturing facility 30' outside my office door. Right now there are 5 pre-production power supplies sitting out in the lab, and after I type this I'm going to go out and start hammering on them. Some will be destroyed or completely buggered up, and some of the rest won't ever be used. After I'm happy with them we'll build 10 more (incorporating any final changes), and these will be for certification work (UL, etc). Unless I find a real problem and then we'll have to revise the design more significantly. A huge corporation like Husqvarna will go thorough many, many iterations of this and scrap more engines than all the porters will ever see.
Production units go through all manner of inspection and testing, both as individual assemblies and in final products. Tools and fixtures are calibrated and undergo maintenance on a regular basis. Production fixtures and jigs are specially designed and built. Small shops must make their own, and make different judgements about when it's worth the overhead to even make a tool or fixture for a certain operation.
I write this to illustrate the difference between the capabilities of a corporation such as Husqvarna (in both development and production) vs. what is possible with a small shop with 1 or a handful of people.
I've had a lot of fun modding some of my own saws, but I would not ever want to sell that service. First of all I'm not equipped in terms of facility or tools, but mainly I would not want to take on the liability. I learned a lot (although I'm still a total novice / hobbyist), and some of those things are that:
- What makes a difference is sometimes quite surprising.
- 2-strokes are extremely complex due to the fact that everything that is happening is inter-related with everything else and you can never change just one thing
- What looks pretty may not mean anything. I tried everything I could in my Earthquke mod, and tried to be clean and neat with my grinding and cutting, even to the point of avoiding raising transfers because I could not do it nicely. But it was a dog until I finally took that step - the last and ugliest mod made it fast.
I work doing product design and development and there is a manufacturing facility 30' outside my office door. Right now there are 5 pre-production power supplies sitting out in the lab, and after I type this I'm going to go out and start hammering on them. Some will be destroyed or completely buggered up, and some of the rest won't ever be used. After I'm happy with them we'll build 10 more (incorporating any final changes), and these will be for certification work (UL, etc). Unless I find a real problem and then we'll have to revise the design more significantly. A huge corporation like Husqvarna will go thorough many, many iterations of this and scrap more engines than all the porters will ever see.
Production units go through all manner of inspection and testing, both as individual assemblies and in final products. Tools and fixtures are calibrated and undergo maintenance on a regular basis. Production fixtures and jigs are specially designed and built. Small shops must make their own, and make different judgements about when it's worth the overhead to even make a tool or fixture for a certain operation.
I write this to illustrate the difference between the capabilities of a corporation such as Husqvarna (in both development and production) vs. what is possible with a small shop with 1 or a handful of people.
I just talked with the builder and honestly, aside from all the AS "this and that..." he's a solid guy. The "warranty" work on the bottom end was out of pocket. I would summarize it as this, we need to talk WITH eachother more, and less ABOUT eachother. Some look at it from the builders view, some the customers view, and some from a 3rd view (repair etc.)
will NEVAH happen.................
Jon1212
Riff Raff Fart Knocker from other Forum's.
Maybe it's time for a Moderator to start a Poll about whether this thread should be locked, or not?
Good grief! The intent of this thread was conceived with understandable intentions, but due to the multiple opinions, and speculation, the execution has suffered.
Also, I am surprised that one member / builder chose to respond, considering the maelstrom that has taken place recently with him at the center.
Later.
Good grief! The intent of this thread was conceived with understandable intentions, but due to the multiple opinions, and speculation, the execution has suffered.
Also, I am surprised that one member / builder chose to respond, considering the maelstrom that has taken place recently with him at the center.
Later.
Good thoughts. Couldnt have said it better.
Maybe I should poll to see if I should starts a poll for closure.
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