The trick is to use fresh fuel not to let it sit around for months and buy at a high volume station.
possible benefit of ethanol?
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It's not.
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066blaster
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At least gas is cheap now. I don't mine keeping my truck full. I bet if the corn prices were as high as they were a couple years ago they wouldn't be putting ethanol in it.
Subsideys from our government. Also, a lot the ethanol plants around here have stock piles of corn. They shut down for a while, but wasn't long. And yes, they sell the byproducts as Dried Distillers, Wet distillers, and corn syrup for feed. Trucks running in and out of the plants, it is crazy.
Fred Wright
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Water absorption was a selling point for gasohol as it was called then. I dunno the scientific explanation ~ molecules in ethanol capturing molecules in H2O or something like that.
But yeah... dry gas additives aren't much needed in modern vehicles.
But yeah... dry gas additives aren't much needed in modern vehicles.
... and another selling point I remember was, "If you like your plan, you can keep it." Oh... Oh... Oh... and this one... "Read my lips; no new taxes."
How about... "I did not have sexual relations with that woman."
And... "I am not a crook."
Vibes
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That probably has more to do with the fact that the cars are jut that much better than they were 25 years ago. When was the last time you heard about someone filing and adjusting their points. I don't live where it is real cold but I've never had full lines freeze.
I laugh at my biker buddies that insist on buying old bikes that they can tune them selves. I point at my 05 twin cam 88B with 70k on the clock with the original plugs in it. I did change them out because they were starting to rust. Otherwise plugs were fine. Never once has my fuel injection needed tweaked. I won't ride with those guys out west unless I'm meeting them somewhere.
firebrick43
Life is all about big saws
One of the biggest reason modern vehicles have less problems is that the tanks are not vented anymore. Vented tanks drawn and expell air every day as the temp rises and falls. The moisture in the air condensates and enters the fuel.
Add 10% ethanol to a closed system and it will absorb 3.8 teaspoons of water per gallon of fuel(yes even liquid water Spidey) before phase seperation occurs.
That being said a gas station that has tank issues and a high turn over of fuel it's still possible for you to get water. Neighbors father broke down 2 nights ago due to freezing water in the fuel. 2 cans of heet had him going.
Add 10% ethanol to a closed system and it will absorb 3.8 teaspoons of water per gallon of fuel(yes even liquid water Spidey) before phase seperation occurs.
That being said a gas station that has tank issues and a high turn over of fuel it's still possible for you to get water. Neighbors father broke down 2 nights ago due to freezing water in the fuel. 2 cans of heet had him going.
Chris-PA
Where the Wild Things Are
The main reason you don't have as much problem with water in the fuel in automobiles is fuel injection - as long as it is liquid the injector will squirt it through. It won't burn and you may set some misfire codes if it's bad enough, but usually it will keep running. It would have to be really cold and a lot of water for the pump in the tank to freeze up. I suppose if it froze up the fuel rail solid you could have a problem, but if even a small amount of fuel can get through you probably won't notice it and the rail will heat up relatively fast.
With a carb water is a big problem even if not frozen, as the water will not vaporize and it just sits there blocking the fuel passage. It won't pass through like with an injector.
With a carb water is a big problem even if not frozen, as the water will not vaporize and it just sits there blocking the fuel passage. It won't pass through like with an injector.
1project2many
ArboristSite Guru
Actually... they are vented. Systems retain some pressure but will open to vent excess pressure or to relieve vacuum. Think about what happens when the fuel heats to nearly engine temp on a long trip, then the car is parked overnight in winter temps. Vacuum created as the fuel cools would be so great the tank would collapse. It doesn't take much vacuum, either.
I can tell you a story about a faulty fuel cap and multiple crushed fuel tanks in an S10.
Not this year it didn't. Corn prices dropped to a 5-year low. Ethanol accounts for about 30% of the use of the USA corn crop with Iowa leading the way. I've been told that even at these low corn prices, ethanol producers can't make any profit selling it for under $2/gal.
fixit1960
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True, I worked on a Tahoe in November in my shop and it had a partially collapsed tank that at times would interfere with the float arm movement of the fuel gauge sending unit. Traced problem done to a defective vent valve. They also have a charcoal canister that traps the gas fumes when venting and stores them until driven again. The engine them pulls it back in and burns them.
That may be helpful when saws start coming with injectors.
My 97
is making noises like the tank is collapsing or expanding I bet its the vent huh?
Cpeder
ArboristSite Member
I'm in the environmental bizz mainly remediation and tank removal. I've pulled many tanks out of the ground cleaned many tanks underground and plenty of other things. Ethanol appears to be very corrosive. It will actually eat fiberglass very slowly over time. (Most new tanks are fiberglass go figure) I've also herd from the science guys that it is horrible on the engines carb or injectors. As for gas freezing ethanol has little effect. Condensation in the tank is the problem. Even if your fuel station moves a large volume of fuel. More likely to get condensation from a 1/2 full tank to a full tank. Depends a lot on the refinery too. You should see diesel tanks on the inside. Very dirty most of the time we can shovel the sludge.
fixit1960
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Very well could be. Crawl underneath and take a look at the tank. If it's happening it should show sign of distress on the tank. Fuel cap hard to remove after shutting it off is a good sign also. There was GM service bulletin on it and the vent valve and tubing was modified int he replacement part. There is no programming in the ECM software to monitor for this happening so it will not set a code for it. Sometimes it's so bad the tank has to be replaced.
Expensive.....
066blaster
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I got this off some ethanol Web site. 
Ummmmmm...... at 65° a gallon of 10% ethanol blended gasoline can hold approximately 3.8 teaspoons of water in suspension (or solution). And all gasoline, blended or not, has some water held in solution... it-is-what-it-is... meaning a gallon of 10% ethanol blended gasoline, at 65°, will absorb something less than 3.8 teaspoons of water before separation occurs (likely less than half the 3.8 teaspoons) simply because it already has suspended water in it before you buy it.
But if the temperature drops to 0°... that same gallon of blended fuel can only hold 2.3 teaspoons before phase separation occurs.
So you pump your fuel out of an underground storage tank... shall we say the fuel is about 45°?? At 45° a gallon of 10% ethanol blended gasoline can hold approximately 3.4 teaspoons of water before phase separation occurs. Let's say it comes out'a the storage tank at 65% saturated (that's a realistic number, but argue it if'n ya' want)... 65% saturated at 45° means the stuff contains a bit over 2.2 teaspoons of water per gallon right out'a the pump.
Well yesterday it was below zero here all day... meaning the 10% ethanol blended gasoline I would pump into my fuel tank couldn't absorb sour owl squat, let alone any water. Chances are, when temperatures dropped to -15° overnight the darn stuff started separating out... right when the need for a fuel line anti-freeze is needed most.
But the worst part is, when the water separates from ethanol blended gasoline, it takes the ethanol with it... and that ain't the case with methanol and isopropyl, the water will phase-out, but the methanol or isopropyl remains in solution with the gas.
Like I said, 10% ethanol blended gasoline was notorious for fuel system freeze-ups back in the '80s... it ain't, and never will be, a fuel system anti-freeze. It readily pulls moisture from the air, and it's moisture holding potential is reduced as temperature drops... that's not what you want a fuel "dyer" or a "anti-freeze" to do... it's the worst thing it possibly could do.
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What did you expect... it's the ethanol website... it's the "sales-pitch"... kind'a like campaign promises... it depends on how much of the truth is being told.
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066blaster
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It said somewhere ethanol freezes at -172 ??? I think it helps. I think partly because most people drive their vehicles on a daily basis. And the tank never accumulates much water.
