I searched and found some threads with answers but not real specific. I usually have the homeowner call and get the utility company trim the limbs that are in the power line. on a service line, I have them take it down. if I cant have either done or am nervous, I pass on the job. I looked at a white pine today. its a massive tree. some of the needles, probably the last foot of limb, is in the power line on the street. its not heavy limb contact and probably 30' from the trunk. I don't need to be near the line to remove the limb. if I cut the limb, it would fall right down. the stuff above I can tip rig. my question is, should I call for this? would this amount of contact be a threat? I can do it from all rope, no spikes, if that helps. I could hand saw it. really, I want to be safe. I don't trust electricity and don't know what safe limits are other than stay away from it. if its in an energized line, wouldn't it be fried? or is the wire insulation preventing this? am I paranoid?
power lines
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I'd call.
This so easy to answer. This kind of thing comes up all the time, and the answer is always the same.
If there is any chance whatsoever of you or anything you are attached to touching the wire, you should call the power company. Primary wires deliver high voltage right back out to you, no matter how far away you are. Just let the guys that are trained for that stuff do it.
If you need to ask if you can, you had better not even think about it. Gaining experience around power lines usually means getting introduced to the arboricultural injuries forum.
If there is any chance whatsoever of you or anything you are attached to touching the wire, you should call the power company. Primary wires deliver high voltage right back out to you, no matter how far away you are. Just let the guys that are trained for that stuff do it.
If you need to ask if you can, you had better not even think about it. Gaining experience around power lines usually means getting introduced to the arboricultural injuries forum.
beastmaster
Addicted to ArboristSite
Even if you did it from a rope. If the ropes hanging to the ground, that could be all it takes. Even with a pole saw, juice can travel down the pole from dirt and moisture in side the pole to your body. I got zapped once when a 40ft tall pine sapling leaned into the HV and I tryed to kick the butt out with my booted foot. I also got it once when a rope went across them from the rope. Iv'e had several close calls over the years. Lot of people only have one. It's just not worth it.
isaaccarlson
Addicted to ArboristSite
Those lines run 7,000+ volts and a LOT of amps. They will fry you to crispy 6 different ways before you know what happened. I know of one guy who got zapped and lived, the rest died on contact. Have the power company trim them back from the line and then you can do the rest. Don't mess with high voltage or high amps. 1/3 of an amp can kill you and 25 volts is the human threshold for pain.
We built a capacitor in high school physics class out of tupperware and tin foil. One student spent half the class period rubbing a piece of fur on a plastic rod and touching the capacitor to "charge it". At the end of class, the teacher had each student touch the capacitor and feel the little tiny shock. I was the last one to touch it and it was almost empty by that point. I reached out and POP!!! There was enough juice in it to jump 2 inches and hit my finger. The reason I got hit with the full dose was because the kids were wearing shoes on a linoleum floor and they were not grounded. They only felt a little prick when they touched it. I had my left hand on the vertical rod of the overhead projector and it was plugged in, grounding me. When I reached out to touch the capacitor, it had enough voltage to jump 2 inches and launch me into the air and then knock me onto the floor. I felt my heart stop for about 2 seconds and then start again. I felt the current go up my right arm, through my chest, down my left arm and out the center of my left palm. THAT HURT.
I thought I was dead. The teacher and everyone else thought I was faking, until I asked what happened. The teacher and I both realized why it happened at about the same time.
I don't know how much juice was in that whiz-bang capacitor, but it was a LOT. The teacher said it could have been as high as 100,000 volts!
The amps are unknown, but I feel lucky to be alive. It felt like a bomb went off in my chest and then it was still. 2 seconds later I felt my heart start beating again. Don't mess with electricity. You might find out the hard way.
We built a capacitor in high school physics class out of tupperware and tin foil. One student spent half the class period rubbing a piece of fur on a plastic rod and touching the capacitor to "charge it". At the end of class, the teacher had each student touch the capacitor and feel the little tiny shock. I was the last one to touch it and it was almost empty by that point. I reached out and POP!!! There was enough juice in it to jump 2 inches and hit my finger. The reason I got hit with the full dose was because the kids were wearing shoes on a linoleum floor and they were not grounded. They only felt a little prick when they touched it. I had my left hand on the vertical rod of the overhead projector and it was plugged in, grounding me. When I reached out to touch the capacitor, it had enough voltage to jump 2 inches and launch me into the air and then knock me onto the floor. I felt my heart stop for about 2 seconds and then start again. I felt the current go up my right arm, through my chest, down my left arm and out the center of my left palm. THAT HURT.
I thought I was dead. The teacher and everyone else thought I was faking, until I asked what happened. The teacher and I both realized why it happened at about the same time.
I don't know how much juice was in that whiz-bang capacitor, but it was a LOT. The teacher said it could have been as high as 100,000 volts!
The amps are unknown, but I feel lucky to be alive. It felt like a bomb went off in my chest and then it was still. 2 seconds later I felt my heart start beating again. Don't mess with electricity. You might find out the hard way.
That's possible.
Maybe you should start at square one and learn how to tell the difference before you go anywhere near utility poles.
newsawtooth
ArboristSite Operative
To be fair, ANSI Z133.1 -4.1.1 states: All overhead and underground electrical conductors and all communications wires and cables shall be considered energized with potentially fatal voltages.
Doesn't really matter if you can differentiate. The power company won't maintain clearance for service lines between the pole and the house, but those lines are considered charged with fatal voltages by ANSI. I've struggled to reconcile this every time I have to clear pole to house lines or remove V trimmed trees in the right of way.
I see... Maybe you missed the point in that i have no desire to go near a powerline. And that i would rather ask or call the service provider for no reason than get educated, make a mistake and die. But i appreciate your pointless, rude comment.
No one is being rude here except yourself. We are answering the question you posted.
Like I said. If you have to ask if it is safe, you shouldn't do it.
Knowledge is the strength that keeps you alive. Without it, you are likely to fry.
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Not pointless or rude at all. You asked a lot of questions that seem to indicate a lack of education and understanding in this area. If you don't even know what powerlines look like or what the safe limits are, you need to get the right training or you will eventually learn the hard way.
Yes, you should assume any overhead line is charged. However, if you are doing any sort of work anywhere near overheads on even a regular but limited basis you really should be able to differentiate between 14kv transmission lines and a cable tv feed. Where I work the local power company does have a training program that teaches how to identify what is on the pole and what the safe limits of approach are for the various types of transmission lines that might be found on utility poles. The guy does some good demos that clearly demonstrate that the 10' rule is just a minimum starting point, not a set distance for every powerline.
I don't think it was meant to be rude. Being able to identify the various lines on a pole is basic Arborist 101.
woodchuck357
Addicted to ArboristSite
One person's "witty" comment is another's rude thoughtless put-down
The OP is obviously looking for enlightenment, he just choose the wrong forum in which to ask for it!
The OP is obviously looking for enlightenment, he just choose the wrong forum in which to ask for it!
I don't see that as an issue at all. Arb 101 is where enlightenment occurs. Just don't bring your thin skin, and it helps if you can be appreciative of crusty curmudgeons that might not exactly tell you what you wanted to hear.
Sometimes it can be tough to take what sounds like criticism; it is human nature to toss out a little resentment. The OP was not out of line, everybody spoke their mind like grownups, and it seems to have turned out well.
I think some enlightenment was given, but no one really answered the basic question about identifying the wires. Without going into big details, it is easy to tell the normally-not-too-dangerous wires from the holy-crap-stay-away primary wires.
1. If it is at the top of a pole, it is deadly.
2. If it is a bare wire attached to an insulator, it is deadly. Yes, there are some ground wires that look like this, but they can get you too.
3. If it is a big fat "black covered" wire beneath the other deadly wires, it is probably the telephone cables.
4. If it is a thinner "black covered" wire near the big fat telephone wires, it is probably a cable tv wire.
5. If it is a "black covered" thin wire near the top of the pole that is hanging from insulators: it is probably lower voltage secondary wires that can still kill you if you really get crosswise with it. Normally, not too dangerous to ropes or sweeping branches. When the "insulation" gets old and starts cracking, it is really a lot of fun to bounce the wires into each other with a falling branch and watch the wires arc against each other and burn off the "insulation".
6. If it runs to the house meter from the pole, it is a secondary wire like #5 above.
Sometimes it can be tough to take what sounds like criticism; it is human nature to toss out a little resentment. The OP was not out of line, everybody spoke their mind like grownups, and it seems to have turned out well.
I think some enlightenment was given, but no one really answered the basic question about identifying the wires. Without going into big details, it is easy to tell the normally-not-too-dangerous wires from the holy-crap-stay-away primary wires.
1. If it is at the top of a pole, it is deadly.
2. If it is a bare wire attached to an insulator, it is deadly. Yes, there are some ground wires that look like this, but they can get you too.
3. If it is a big fat "black covered" wire beneath the other deadly wires, it is probably the telephone cables.
4. If it is a thinner "black covered" wire near the big fat telephone wires, it is probably a cable tv wire.
5. If it is a "black covered" thin wire near the top of the pole that is hanging from insulators: it is probably lower voltage secondary wires that can still kill you if you really get crosswise with it. Normally, not too dangerous to ropes or sweeping branches. When the "insulation" gets old and starts cracking, it is really a lot of fun to bounce the wires into each other with a falling branch and watch the wires arc against each other and burn off the "insulation".
6. If it runs to the house meter from the pole, it is a secondary wire like #5 above.
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I went out and looked at the situation again. on 1 side of the street there is power wires. on the other side there are phone and cable. there are 4 wires on the phone pole. they are all the same. like a black tube with a thin wire swirled around. the lowest one is the largest. I saw no transformer or insulators on any of the poles on this side of the street. on the other side, its obviously all power. I also traced the power from the homes to make sure none went to the phone pole. so, my next question is, how sturdy are phone and cable wires? can they take a tug or light bumps?
Really?
The fact that you are asking these questions suggests a significant lack of expertise. This really sounds like it should be in the homeowner helper forum, although the answer is going to be the same: hire someone that knows what they are doing.
Those of us that actually know what we are doing with pruning and utility service have an excellent understanding of the risks involved and how to avoid the problems. No amount of on-line advice can give you the necessary talent to go near the utility service, so we are generally unwilling to give advice like that when we think it will just make you feel qualified to go get into trouble.
On this specific latest comment, you should not touch the wires at all with any falling branches, even if you think they are not going to electrocute you. This eliminates the risk of damage to wires or to yourself.
The fact that you are asking these questions suggests a significant lack of expertise. This really sounds like it should be in the homeowner helper forum, although the answer is going to be the same: hire someone that knows what they are doing.
Those of us that actually know what we are doing with pruning and utility service have an excellent understanding of the risks involved and how to avoid the problems. No amount of on-line advice can give you the necessary talent to go near the utility service, so we are generally unwilling to give advice like that when we think it will just make you feel qualified to go get into trouble.
On this specific latest comment, you should not touch the wires at all with any falling branches, even if you think they are not going to electrocute you. This eliminates the risk of damage to wires or to yourself.
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