Premium ethanol gas vs. pure regular unleaded

[one.man.band]

i am an experimenter.

to find out if alcohol has an effect on premix.

1. using a previously washed rinsed/dried pop can cut in half: added 70% rubbing alcohol into 50:1 mixed gas.

result: watched as water from the alcohol beaded up and separated into drops. the premix also separated into drops, not all of the premix separated into drops, only a very small portion.

2. using same rewashed re-rinsed/re-dried pop can cut in half: tested straight unmixed 2-stroke oil. using 70% rubbing alcohol.

result: oil became "swirly." (looked like unmixed cool-aid). when i shook the can for a few seconds the oil separated somewhat from the alcohol/water. then waited....after about 15-20 seconds, it returned to the "swirly". state.


Note: this test is not scientific by any means. no exact proportioning was used (other than my 50:1 premix). i did not have 190 proof "everclear" for experiment. the alcohol was 70%, meaning it had 30% water. realize that alcohol can never be 200 proof. can't be done. so 190 proof = 95% alcohol + 5 % water.

hopefully someone has some 190 proof laying around to do similar kind of test.

i don't really care much about the octane rating that i use in my worksaw. but i do care about it seizing from lack of oil or oil dilution from ethanol. (we used to take year old drained boat gas from an inboard/outboard ........ mix it with premix and cut firewood all day every day until we had enough for winter). but, those were the days before ethanol gas. starting 1 year ago in autumn its all we can get around here. my gas mileage in truck dropped from 17.4 to 16.8mpg. paying more for ethanol gas with less energy, and watching food prices go up.

100% ethanol = 95% alcohol + 5% water

so for every gallon of 90% gas + 10% ethanol we buy, we actually get 90% gas + 9.5% alcohol and 0.5% water.

disclaimer: (been awhile long while for the math. could be mistaken). hahaha. i don't grow corn, nor i am not in the oil business.

corn is for butter and salt imo.

 

[MacLaren]

Since we are on the subject of fules, has anyone been running or have ran the VP94 50:1 mix?

 

[Slamm]

The beauty of running 100LL AV gas is there would be no need for threads like this, or need to replace various fuel system related parts, due to ethanol or something else eating the rubber parts or varnishing the insides of the carb if it sits for awhile.

I have the items below in the signature, plus a Kombi 130 and all of the items get 100LL AV run through them a lot and it gets left in them for a long time, and next year they will start up just as fast as they will tomorrow.

I have replaced ZERO fuel system related parts in several years of owning a large portion of the below items in the signature. I have never replaced a filter or fuel line and have ZERO fuel related issues. I don't have to throw out unused gas after a month of non-use or whatever other weird issues people have with regular gas. I don't have to wonder if I'm getting enough octane or run my saw dry before storage, nothing. Zero issues with idling, power loss or starting, nothing.

I don't have to mix water with my gas wondering if it is good or not, or whatever other oddities we are discussing in this thread.

I only present that as food for thought, if someone desires a simplier solution to auto grade gasolines.

Just trying to help,

Sam

 

[SomewhatStock]

"Heat
Question: Does ethanol laced fuel run hotter than non-ethanol fuel all other things being equal??"

If anything it would run slightly cooler. This assumes tune was correct once the switch to the 10 percent ethanol was made.

From what I see here in automotive applications, it takes about 5 to 7 percent more E-10 to do about the same thing as straight gasoline. For E-85, about 30 percent more. Users of E-85 also report that they MUST keep their engines fully warmed up, and fully heat soaked or performance suffers considerably. They also report that their engines run very cool on E-85 as compared to gasoline. With this in mind, one should consider that the possibility of lube oil dilution exists, as the more difficult to burn ethanol may tend to "wash" the cylinders some on cold starts, thru warm up cycles.

E-10 has good and bad qualities. Absorbing water was mentioned, but it also evaporates very quickly. In a carbureted automotive application, with a vented system, you've got about 5-7 days after shutdown before the carb is empty. Of course a carburetor with a huge bowl capacity would take a bit longer, and smaller bowl capacity a bit less, but the overall average is about a week from what we've seen.

To date I've had zero issues here with E-10 and two stroke power equipment. I make sure every piece of equipment is used or at least started and warmed up every month or so, and I use up the mix often enough it never stays around to loose octane or settle out, absorb a lot of water, etc......Cliff

What would happen if I ran c16 through my MS261?





I may consider this stuff.
http://www.vpracingfuels.com/small-engine-fuel

 

[Andyshine77]

The beauty of running 100LL AV gas is there would be no need for threads like this, or need to replace various fuel system related parts, due to ethanol or something else eating the rubber parts or varnishing the insides of the carb if it sits for awhile.

I have the items below in the signature, plus a Kombi 130 and all of the items get 100LL AV run through them a lot and it gets left in them for a long time, and next year they will start up just as fast as they will tomorrow.

I have replaced ZERO fuel system related parts in several years of owning a large portion of the below items in the signature. I have never replaced a filter or fuel line and have ZERO fuel related issues. I don't have to throw out unused gas after a month of non-use or whatever other weird issues people have with regular gas. I don't have to wonder if I'm getting enough octane or run my saw dry before storage, nothing. Zero issues with idling, power loss or starting, nothing.

I don't have to mix water with my gas wondering if it is good or not, or whatever other oddities we are discussing in this thread.

I only present that as food for thought, if someone desires a simplier solution to auto grade gasolines.

Just trying to help,

Sam

True, but I could say the same about the pump fuel I've ran the last ten + years. I've yet to personally have any issue with pump fuel. Sure I wish I could find fuel without Ethanol just for piece of mind, but I honestly haven't seen any issues with equipment that's used every 6 months. I think most make a bigger deal out of it than it really is IMHO.

 

[one.man.band]

safest and probably the best idea is to run whatever fuel the saw manufacturer recommends.

do new saws require the use of unleaded fuel only?

what about the average guy who has a newer saw with a catalytic converter type muffler?

knowing that lead does converter damage in cars......are new saws affected as well?

all the fuels below used to contain lead. (at least they did in the 1990's).

have run AV gas, cam2 114, cam2 110 (when they decreased octane in the 90's), turbo blue 108?, vp 117 All in very high compression 4 strokes that needed it. never tried in a saw. AV gas meant a 15 mile trip to airport, then trying to talk someone into filling the jug. that didn't always work. the AV gas was much cheaper (price wise) than the other racing type fuels. vp meant a pre-order from a dealer well in advance if they did not have a 55 gallon drum around to fill jug. also used to come in a 5 gallon container.

 

[nmurph]

The beauty of running 100LL AV gas is there would be no need for threads like this, or need to replace various fuel system related parts, due to ethanol or something else eating the rubber parts or varnishing the insides of the carb if it sits for awhile.

I have the items below in the signature, plus a Kombi 130 and all of the items get 100LL AV run through them a lot and it gets left in them for a long time, and next year they will start up just as fast as they will tomorrow.

I have replaced ZERO fuel system related parts in several years of owning a large portion of the below items in the signature. I have never replaced a filter or fuel line and have ZERO fuel related issues. I don't have to throw out unused gas after a month of non-use or whatever other weird issues people have with regular gas. I don't have to wonder if I'm getting enough octane or run my saw dry before storage, nothing. Zero issues with idling, power loss or starting, nothing.

I don't have to mix water with my gas wondering if it is good or not, or whatever other oddities we are discussing in this thread.

I only present that as food for thought, if someone desires a simplier solution to auto grade gasolines.

Just trying to help,

Sam

I can say exactly the same thing about the 93 octane 10% ethanol that I have run for several years in all of my 2 stroke equipment.

 

[Slamm]

I can say exactly the same thing about the 93 octane 10% ethanol that I have run for several years in all of my 2 stroke equipment.

Hmmmmm, so you have ethanol gas that doesn't eat the rubber parts and varnish the carbs if proper care isn't taken? Thats pretty good. I was always under the impression that Ethanol gas had a short life span and provided you with the aforementioned issues. I guess, threads like this are for nothing then.

Sam

 

[nmurph]

Note:.............. realize that alcohol can never be 200 proof. can't be done. so 190 proof = 95% alcohol + 5 % water.

alcohol can most certainly be 200 proof. It is called anhydrous ethanol.

hopefully someone has some 190 proof laying around to do similar kind of test.

Not for many, many years.....but you can still get your choice of corn or rye around here if you know where to knock.

i don't really care much about the octane rating that i use in my worksaw. but i do care about it seizing from lack of oil or oil dilution from ethanol. (we used to take year old drained boat gas from an inboard/outboard ........ mix it with premix and cut firewood all day every day until we had enough for winter). but, those were the days before ethanol gas. starting 1 year ago in autumn its all we can get around here. my gas mileage in truck dropped from 17.4 to 16.8mpg. paying more for ethanol gas with less energy, and watching food prices go up.

100% ethanol = 95% alcohol + 5% water.

This is true for 190 proof, but not for ethanol used in fuels.

[disclaimer: (been awhile long while for the math. could be mistaken). hahaha. i don't grow corn, nor i am not in the oil business.

corn is for butter and salt imo.[/QUOTE]

Here is some reading for those of you still trying to make ethanol the boogie man......

http://www.pharmco-prod.com/pages/ep1.pdf

http://pods.dasnr.okstate.edu/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-6015/BAE-1746pod.pdf

http://www.epa.gov/oms/regs/fuels/rfg/waterphs.pdf

 

[Cliff R]

+1 on using what the manufacturer recomends to run in your saw.

There is no need to go to difficult to obtain, expensive, or "exotic" fuels.

Use what is available at the local gas pumps. I continue to see threads where folks are seeking out fuel without ethanol in it. I'm not sure it's even available here, but I wouldn't use it anyhow, or go out of my way to look for it......Cliff

 

[one.man.band]

sorry...way off topic from original post.

i stand corrected. exists. never was known to me.

btu is true measure of energy in fuels for a given volume.

100% gas has more btu's than E10 90/10 ethanol mix though...per gallon.



and...would like a sip of 190 ... the floating cherry type if possible!!!

 

[kirkeg]

ethanol free gas

i heard that you can now get pure gas at the marina. People on the water been having all sorts of problems w/ their boats running the E10.

i have not yet looked myself but i hear it's available now...

check out your local marina!

kirk

 

[Cliff R]

The biggest problem the Marine industry is having, is that most of the carburetors used are quite dated, and have bunna rubber, neoprene, or low quality Viton parts in them. Since E-10 hit the Marina's, the sales of our carburetor rebuild kits is almost more than I can keep up with at times.

My kits contain the best flouroelostomer (Viton) parts currently available, and are fine in E-85 as well as E-10 or any other type of pump fuel.

The other problem, is that the E-10 does a pretty good job of cleaning out those old fuel tanks, which have been abused for decades with old gas left in them, lots of drying up cycles, water in the bottom of the tanks, etc.

E-10 forms a "jelly" in those tanks pretty quickly when it comes in contact with water, and it absorbs some water as well in any vented system. Using the boat really helps keep everything in suspension, but as we all know, boats see little use, and in most cases it's seasonal, so they are prone to LONG periods of sitting with old gas in them.

Most Marine applications, at least on inboards will have a good fuel filtration system before the engine, and many use water separating type filters. If kept in good shape, seldom does any water, dirt, or debri from the tanks make it to the carburetor. The key words there are (kept in good shape). Very few, and I mean very few recreational boaters do any maintenance until they start having problems with something.

All the problems the Marine industry has, also happens with small power equipment, IF you don't take steps to keep it from happening.....Cliff