Propane vs. Nat.gas

[pook]

recent news related to NG old pipes & fires? who's gonna pay to replace the old pipes?

 

[Dalmatian90]

recent news related to NG old pipes & fires? who's gonna pay to replace the old pipes?

There's been a truck accident. Whose going to pay to replace the semi?

Someone is going to pay for the infrastructure; it's either going to be built into the price of the product (like gasoline, propane, or anything you buy at a retail store) or it's going to be a separate delivery fee (like when you buy a gizmo over the internet).

I don't believe the separation of natural monopoly utilities like electricity and natural gas into separate suppliers, transmission companies, and distributors accomplished anything other then (1) create more positions for political hacks to occupy at the Dept. of Public Utility Control; and (2) provide more opportunity for the corporations to monkey with the regulations in the background. Replacing the simple "here's the price" with a complex formula decreased transparency, not increased it. "Oh, THAT part of the price is out of our control!"

So I guess I shrug at the pipeline and such fees. I'd rather see it as a bottom line price for regulated monopolies. What the costs are behind that price I don't care.

Allow the companies a system just like we do with trucking when there's a spike in fuel prices -- allow them a temporary surcharge when fuel prices exceed contractually stated ranges.

 

[pook]

There's been a truck accident. Whose going to pay to replace the semi?

Someone is going to pay for the infrastructure; it's either going to be built into the price of the product (like gasoline, propane, or anything you buy at a retail store) or it's going to be a separate delivery fee (like when you buy a gizmo over the internet).

I don't believe the separation of natural monopoly utilities like electricity and natural gas into separate suppliers, transmission companies, and distributors accomplished anything other then (1) create more positions for political hacks to occupy at the Dept. of Public Utility Control; and (2) provide more opportunity for the corporations to monkey with the regulations in the background. Replacing the simple "here's the price" with a complex formula decreased transparency, not increased it. "Oh, THAT part of the price is out of our control!"

So I guess I shrug at the pipeline and such fees. I'd rather see it as a bottom line price for regulated monopolies. What the costs are behind that price I don't care.

Allow the companies a system just like we do with trucking when there's a spike in fuel prices -- allow them a temporary surcharge when fuel prices exceed contractually stated ranges.

truck accident ins. co. pays? if the policy is paid up to date. Who insures the old gaslines?

 

[Dalmatian90]

truck accident ins. co. pays? if the policy is paid up to date. Who insures the old gaslines?

Do you honestly think the insurance premiums are paid for by pennies from heaven?

The costs for the insurance, or to buy new trucks because the DOT inspectors won't pass old worn out trucks, or to repair old pipelines all come out of what consumers pay for products.

Just sometimes that costs are bundled into the retail price, sometimes we pay for shipping separately.

 

[pook]

Do you honestly think the insurance premiums are paid for by pennies from heaven?

The costs for the insurance, or to buy new trucks because the DOT inspectors won't pass old worn out trucks, or to repair old pipelines all come out of what consumers pay for products.

Just sometimes that costs are bundled into the retail price, sometimes we pay for shipping separately.

i think if the local gasline has to be replaced, the gas pricings will go up. i think if the gasline isnt replaced, the ins. premium will go up due to liability..............& then there's the frakking thing.

 

[danrclem]

and you get your pick of who fills it!!!! at not inflated prices--

I get a 20 cent discount from my gas company just for owning my own tank. I guess I should say that I did but I haven't bought any since about June 2008 so I'm not sure what the policy is now.

 

[komatsuvarna]

Is the appliances for NG and propane not different?? I know the heaters are. I dont see how it would be cheeper to switch to NG if you had to change your appliances too.

Ive had a natural gas meter at my house since they laid the line 11 years ago and haven't paid a single cent for it. If it wasnt so high Id tie on to it and sell the chainsaws and all the stuff that goes with them.lol

 

[TreeClimber57]

I would stick with propane since you have it, and apparently do not use a whole lot of it.. and are not charged a rental fee on tank.

But.. if they ever think of charging you a rental fee.. this may change the scenario.

Or.. if you decide to change your range, hot water, etc.. all over to gas.. then the natural gas idea may be beneficial.

 

[GeeVee]

All these replies and none pointed out this one simple fact?

One source is federally regulated, the other has been de-regulated.

Do some research there, and it will be time well spent.

I have NG for my hot tub only, no kitchen appliances and I call them and they turn off the meter for a six month period with no fee for turn off or turn back on. Kind of like a second home service.

I could have went with Propane, but frankly I can't trust the delivery guy will actually fill me, and his mother-in-law doesn't wind up with my propane.

Can you?

 

[TreeClimber57]

All these replies and none pointed out this one simple fact?

One source is federally regulated, the other has been de-regulated.

Do some research there, and it will be time well spent.

I have NG for my hot tub only, no kitchen appliances and I call them and they turn off the meter for a six month period with no fee for turn off or turn back on. Kind of like a second home service.

I could have went with Propane, but frankly I can't trust the delivery guy will actually fill me, and his mother-in-law doesn't wind up with my propane.

Can you?

Good points.. but.. he said that the tank had zero rental cost.. and has not been refilled since November 2008.. that 27 months.. and maybe still not empty.. did not mention that. So.. while I am not sure how much volume the tank is .. it sounds like somewhat low usage. And based upon that.. not sure if any monthly fee at all would make sense.. on other hand the only way to tell is really if he compares the two.. assume same use for NG.. and get pricing (including monthly fees, etc).. and work it out.

 

[Labman]

Is the appliances for NG and propane not different?? I know the heaters are. I dont see how it would be cheeper to switch to NG if you had to change your appliances too.

Ive had a natural gas meter at my house since they laid the line 11 years ago and haven't paid a single cent for it. If it wasnt so high Id tie on to it and sell the chainsaws and all the stuff that goes with them.lol

In many cases, you just change the jets.

 

[Wood Doctor]

With all the fees you have to pay for NG there are no savings.

There is no reason that we the customer should have to pay for the underground pipes that belong to a private company.

+1. Agreed. As I posted earlier, natural gas companies are shooting themselves in the foot. People who try to conserve energy still pay hundreds of dollars a year as a flat fee, just for being hooked up to the pipeline, irrespective of how much NG they burn.

That's absurd.

 

[wfsdno]

If you have a propane water heater, you will have to buy a new water heater designed for natural gas. They are NOT interchangable. That may be another cost to consider.

Roger

 

[TreeClimber57]

If you have a propane water heater, you will have to buy a new water heater designed for natural gas. They are NOT interchangable. That may be another cost to consider.

Roger

Only different orfice, usually a easy and inexpensive converstion.

 

[TreeClimber57]

With all the fees you have to pay for NG there are no savings.
There is no reason that we the customer should have to pay for the underground pipes that belong to a private company.

Somebody is going to pay for it.. same as electrical wires delivering electricity. Otherwise you get no pipe or wire.. People don't do things for free.

Same as my bucket truck.. while you don't see it as a charge.. if you hire my truck you are paying (to some degree) for my fuel to drive to your place, for my fuel to drive to garage for maintenance, for the tires, oil change.. etc.. just the way business works. People simply pass their costs down the chain.

You either pay as it built into product (gas in this case).. or as a seperated charge. But either way you pay..

 

[Wood Doctor]

Somebody is going to pay for it.. same as electrical wires delivering electricity. Otherwise you get no pipe or wire.. People don't do things for free.

Same as my bucket truck.. while you don't see it as a charge.. if you hire my truck you are paying (to some degree) for my fuel to drive to your place, for my fuel to drive to garage for maintenance, for the tires, oil change.. etc.. just the way business works. People simply pass their costs down the chain.

You either pay as it built into product (gas in this case).. or as a seperated charge. But either way you pay..

Agreed, but not a blanket fixed cost across the board for everyone. It should be built into usage volume, just like the rest of the rate structures for most energy sources, such as gasoline. If my gas meter does not whirl very fast, I should not have to pay $400 a year across the board for being hooked up.

That's robbery or pure socialism, whichever way you want to call it. :msp_angry:

 

[atlarge54]

Only different orfice, usually a easy and inexpensive converstion.

Propane operates at a slightly higher pressure than NG and has a higher BTU value than NG. Most cooking stoves have two sets of jets which need to be swapped out and the regulator is dual range and needs reset. I don't think that's the case for water heaters but I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.

 

[wampum]

I just filled up 3-100 pound tanks yesterday. They charged me $52.00 a hundred pounds. My neighbor claims he bought some last summer for about $40.00 a hundred. I have 5 tanks,that is good for 3 years,because we only use propane to cook on. I like to keep ahead,so I usually fill a tank when it goes MT,I just put it off and ended up with 3 MT's.

 

[tdb]

wash hands

If you have the chance to get N-G for 200.00 I would wash my hands of P-P , every year have to fight with the P-P guy to get the best price I have N-G and its D-T-E , I have had it for 15 years I would never go back to P-P, I spend about 25.00 -30.00 a month, summer and winter.
If you switch you will never regret it.

TEDMI

 

[beerman6]

I'm pretty sure we will stick with propane and buy our own 100 gallon tank.


I saw tracks in the snow Saturday and saw a Consumers car at the local gas station,but have not heard back from them yet.