PS 5100 with a 24" bar??

[Metals406]

So I want to demo a saw to a crew (They're currently demoing a PS 3410TH), and they run a fleet of MS361's. They run 24" to 28" bars on the 361's, full comp, .050 3/8" chain... I think that's a lot of bar for that saw, but I digress.

They like the 361's, but after talking to their climbing crew, they all hate climbing with them. I guess the long bars facilitate less bending while cleaning the line-corridors. They stated that they wouldn't run a bar less than 24", for the above reason.

The PS 5100 is around 1lb. lighter (according to spec sheet), but .5 cc's lighter on the engine side. They could jump up to the PS 6400, but they gain around a pound of weight, but more cc's... Again, weight/bulk was a climbing issue--so why would they want something a pound more?

This question is for the fellas that have run both saws, and know them pretty good. Would the 5100 pull a 24", if it ran a full skip 3/8" .050??

As I said before, IMO--a 24" to 28" is a lot of bar for even the 361... But they run that configuration anyway.

... Discuss.

 

[kruege84]

There's only one way to find out...

It think it's going to depend on what you're cutting. It will probably pull 24" skip in pines, but it might not be a happy saw if you try it. But if they're happy pulling 28" full comp with the 361's they might be happy with it. I'd stay away from hardwoods though. Just my opinion, but let's see what the guys with a little more experience with model say.

 

[Metals406]

Luckily, hardwoods are a rarity here... A big rarity. All pines, firs, spruce, cottonwoods, etc.

First time I heard folks burning red and white oak for firewood... I 'bout crapped my pants.:jawdrop:

Red and white oak lumber is expensive here.

 

[Big Neb]

I haven't run a 5100 yet. As such, I won't comment on whether or not it would pull a 24". I would think if weight was an issue not only by dropping a pound in weight PHO, by switching to a 20" bar you would also shed an additional pound.

I will however say that I'm not sure it would be a good idea to use skip chain on a climbing saw. I hate skip when limbing and add the fact that you are swinging from the tree like Tarzan and the skip's tendency to grab... I'm thinking you'll be posting in the Injury section shortly.

 

[kruege84]

In that case, I'd say go for it.

EDIT: Just read Big Neb's post. I don't know anything about skip's tendancy to grab. This was a reply to only cutting pines, fir, etc...

 

[SawTroll]

.....

The PS 5100 is around 1lb. lighter (according to spec sheet), but .5 cc's lighter on the engine side. ......

(1) The 5100 isn't 1 pound lighter in the real world.

(2) The cc difference is 9cc, and there is a huge power difference.

(3) The 6400 is much more than 1 pound heavier than the 361, rather close to two, and that is empty, without bar and chain.

 

[Metals406]

I haven't run a 5100 yet. As such, I won't comment on whether or not it would pull a 24". I would think if weight was an issue not only by dropping a pound in weight PHO, by switching to a 20" bar you would also shed an additional pound.

I will however say that I'm not sure it would be a good idea to use skip chain on a climbing saw. I hate skip when limbing and add the fact that you are swinging from the tree like Tarzan and the skip's tendency to grab... I'm thinking you'll be posting in the Injury section shortly.

You're down in Billings, so you know what kind of wood we're in... I agree about the skip... It would just keep their chain-speed up (in theory). The other option would be a low profile chain, but they're a lot wimpier.

They got me over a barrel with this bar length thing.

 

[Metals406]

(1) The 5100 isn't 1 pound lighter in the real world.

(2) The cc difference is 9cc, and there is a huge power difference.

(3) The 6400 is much more than 1 pound heavier than the 361.

Yeah, we've been over the listed/real power thing... Give me the real life stats Troll.

And I miss-typed the first time... The listed .5 diff. is in cu. in. (oops)

What are your thoughts on the 24"?

 

[Big Neb]

I understand completely.

My dad laughs at my 026 Pro with an 18" B/C. I use it off/on throughout the day while he slings his bigger 24" on even the little stuff. Late in the day my arms thank me.

I'm thinking the advantage of weight minus the disadvantage of pulling a long bar equals a dog in the wood. If those guys are used to a little power using a smaller saw with a longer bar isn't going to be the answer.

 

[Big Neb]

I agree with Troll, Dolmar is horrible about real weight on their saws. My 7900's are advertised at 13.9 lbs?

My newest 7900 brand new, just out of the box, dry, came in at over 14.5 lbs.

 

[Metals406]

So the next evolutionary question would be... 5100 or 6400? With their 361's, and them limiting me to a 24" bar... What saw would make them crack a smile?

I might add, that they have taken notice of the price difference between the Stihl's and Dolmar--so that's also a factor.

 

[Freakingstang]

I ran a 28" bar and non skip chain on my stock 5100 for giggles when I got it. All we have around here is hardwood and that was way too much bar for the saw. It could be done if you only had one large tree to cut, but man I would not want to run that saw on a daily basis.......

 

[Metals406]

I ran a 28" bar and non skip chain on my stock 5100 for giggles when I got it. All we have around here is hardwood and that was way too much bar for the saw. It could be done if you only had one large tree to cut, but man I would not want to run that saw on a daily basis.......

Excellent info!.. Thank you!

 

[windthrown]

Another factor to consider is the oiler. Does the 5100 have enough oil pump to run a 24 inch bar? One reason to stay within factory limits on bar length. I would think that a 20 inch bar on that saw would tear through a lot of tree though. Around here a lot of guys run the 361 with a 28 inch bar.

If you need to run a 24 then step up to a bigger saw. You can rent a 6401 Makita at Home Depot and see what they are like before buying one. Heavy saw though; I would not want to climb with anything that big. However, I know guys that will only climb with 440's. They are drying up though, so they will have to go with the 441 (which most do not like), or step down to the 361.

 

[Metals406]

Another factor to consider is the oiler. Does the 5100 have enough oil pump to run a 24 inch bar? One reason to stay within factory limits on bar length. I would think that a 20 inch bar on that saw would tear through a lot of tree though. Around here a lot of guys run the 361 with a 28 inch bar.

If you need to run a 24 then step up to a bigger saw. You can rent a 6401 Makita at Home Depot and see what they are like before buying one. Heavy saw though; I would not want to climb with anything that big. However, I know guys that will only climb with 440's. They are drying up though, so they will have to go with the 441 (which most do not like), or step down to the 361.

Thanks!

 

[SawTroll]

What are your thoughts on the 24"?

I sure wouldn't do it, but really depends on the expectations - as allways.....:censored:

I regard the 5100 as a 16" saw.

20-24" bar is 70cc territory in my book - skip is just a way to get away with too much bar on the saw, for a few cuts.....

 

[wkpoor]

Troll Said

I regard the 5100 as a 16" saw.

5100 comes with an 18" standard.
Wonder why regardless of cc most box store saws are sold with an 18" bar.

 

[Edge & Engine]

5100 comes with an 18" standard.
Wonder why regardless of cc most box store saws are sold with an 18" bar.

Because uninformed folk tend to gauge the power/size of the engine by the bar length. Trickery.

 

[SawTroll]

5100 comes with an 18" standard.
Wonder why regardless of cc most box store saws are sold with an 18" bar.

Well, the "18 inch" Dolmar "small Husky" bar really is a 17" 64dl one (in 3/8") - and they are sold with 16" as well - not much difference though........

 

[NPKenny]

They like the 361's, but after talking to their climbing crew, they all hate climbing with them. I guess the long bars facilitate less bending while cleaning the line-corridors. They stated that they wouldn't run a bar less than 24", for the above reason.

I am trying to get a picture of how they are using the saws. Are they cutting on the ground and bending or are they concerned with bending from a bucket truck or concerned with bending while in trees.

I have climbed and limbed with a 361 and 20" bar and didn't like it. I would have much rather had a top-handle with me and a 14" bar and bent at the knees a bit more.

If they are worried about bending over on the ground, I could see the desire for a 24" bar. If they are packing a 24" bar for reach in a tree, I would think body position would be more of a factor.

You've got them demoing a 3410, what exactly are they doing with that saw?