Well this came about when I told someone I heat with wood. Was told if I ever had a fire to throw in a road flare. I didn't know what to say to him. I have big fire box in the basement. So what do you. I've heard ABC, Baking soda, Sand.
Putting out a chimney fire with road flares
- Thread starter gtu160
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modn
ArboristSite Operative
I remember years ago my father had those, I think they were labeled "chimney sweep" and were basically a longer road flare. I never seen one used but I presume they worked if they were carrying them.
Brand was Chimfex
Brand was Chimfex
Last edited:
ericjeeper
Addicted to ArboristSite
Chimfex.. They are bigger but what they do is to try to use up all of the available oxygen.
Lots of oldtimers swore by doing this very carefully..
half gallon of water in a pitcher, open door toss it ONTO THE FIRE. then shut the door.. The rush of steam will aid in putting out the chimney fire.
Do not hit the met of the stove or firebricks if you try this at home.
Lots of oldtimers swore by doing this very carefully..
half gallon of water in a pitcher, open door toss it ONTO THE FIRE. then shut the door.. The rush of steam will aid in putting out the chimney fire.
Do not hit the met of the stove or firebricks if you try this at home.
That sounds incredibly dangerous. I doubt you could do it without getting flash scalded by the steam, never mind the chance of cracking your stove open.
I'd shut the air down the best I could, call the FD, and then maybe try a Chimtex. I've heard a ziploc bag full of baking soda or ash can help knock the fire in the stove down. A fire extiguisher shot in the chimney cleanout is another option that seems plausible to me too.
me riteway is in the basement-----where the stovepipe goes in the chimney--theres a slight gap on the top of the pipe--the water faucet, with hose attached, is 2 feet away---hose in gap--turn on--fires out in a second--happened once--and still dont know why--but glad it was there---
sloth9669
ArboristSite Guru
dry chem
there are many different dry chemical extinguishers out there as well as maybe just the power. Take a few hand fulls and throw it in when hot. the heat will bring the chem up the chim . this is close to the baking soda home remedy but much better. the best dry chem on the market is special (purple) K.
Dry chemical extinguishers are
not effective in removing the tremendous heat that is generated by this type of
hazard. The fire can easily reignite or won’t be extinguished at all. Leaving
the BC sodium bicarbonate extinguisher in place provides one a FALSE sense
of fire safety. The new class “K” rated fire extinguishers are much better
suited to properly handle and address the special cooking appliance fire
hazards found in commercial kitchens. (For additional information refer to
NFPA-10, 17/17A, 96 and ANSI/UL-711 test standard).
but we all know the best thing for a chimney fire is not have one. burn dry wood. run hot temps. clean often.
everyone stay warm:greenchainsaw:
there are many different dry chemical extinguishers out there as well as maybe just the power. Take a few hand fulls and throw it in when hot. the heat will bring the chem up the chim . this is close to the baking soda home remedy but much better. the best dry chem on the market is special (purple) K.
Dry chemical extinguishers are
not effective in removing the tremendous heat that is generated by this type of
hazard. The fire can easily reignite or won’t be extinguished at all. Leaving
the BC sodium bicarbonate extinguisher in place provides one a FALSE sense
of fire safety. The new class “K” rated fire extinguishers are much better
suited to properly handle and address the special cooking appliance fire
hazards found in commercial kitchens. (For additional information refer to
NFPA-10, 17/17A, 96 and ANSI/UL-711 test standard).
but we all know the best thing for a chimney fire is not have one. burn dry wood. run hot temps. clean often.
everyone stay warm:greenchainsaw:
Last edited:
Dalmatian90
Addicted to ArboristSite
1) A road flare will do NOTHING.
2) Chimfex flares are not currently manufactured, haven't been since around 2000 when the factory burned down, Orion Signal has said they may re-start production in summer of '09.
3) Never light a Chimfex flare on the side of the road. Obscuring visibility with a cloud of smoke is not your intent
4) "Chimney Bombs" have become a widespread fire department practice. These are just ziploc baggies filled with dry chemical. Toss 'em down from the top. Some of the newer tactics include, if there is a good draft, sprinklering them in the firebox and letting the draft carry it up the flue -- that's particulary a good "first aid" until you can ladder the roof, drop bombs if still needed, and clean the chimney to prevent rekindle.
5) You can use a dry chemical extinguisher through the firebox and up the chimney as long as there's a good draft (some chimneys will plug; some with a lot of creosote will plug really badly as burning chunks sloff off and fall down which becomes a royal ##### to put out and clean out). If you don't have a draft, you'll get a face full of dry chemical back at you, and that stuff is an incredible pain to clean from a house.
6) "Purple K" is the "good stuff" of the Dry Chemical world. It's primarily potassium bicarbonate along with a few additives to keep it as a free-flowing powder despite long storage times. It is more effective then sodium bicarbonate based dry chemical, but it's also not necessary for a chimney fire.
Because it's more expensive, it's usually just used where there is a significant flammable liquids fire problem, and then it's often teamed up with water-based foam as a "twin agent" system -- the Purple K knocks down the fire, then the foam is applied to cool sources of reignition (hot metal, etc) and create a smothering blanket between fuel and air.
7) "Class K" is a fairly new extinguisher rating to go with A (wood & paper), B (flammable liquids), C (electrified equipment), and D (metals).
Class K is a WET chemical, and was developed because today's health concious vegetable cooking oils burn hotter and reignite easier then your father's animal fat based cooking oils. The "K" is for kitchen, because their use is confined to commercial kitchen installations. When activated, the extinguisher heads produce a fine mist which knocks down the fire, cools hot surfaces, and helps seal against re-flash of the oil surface.
8) My own recommendations...
Everyone should have a decent 20# Dry Chemical Extinguisher, a 2-1/2 gallon Pressurized Water Extinguisher, and a 3/4" garden hose hooked up to the water tank in the basement with a good nozzle and enough hose to reach anywhere in the house.
The pressurized water extinguishers are fairly cheap, and you can refill them yourselves as long as you have a 100psi air compressor with tire chuck. Add a good dollop of dishwashing soap to the water after you fill it, helps the water stick and sink into material instead of rolling off.
Stuff like grease fires in the kitchen, car fires in the yard you can knock down with the dry chem, then keep 'em down with the pressurized water or hose till the fire department can get there.
Fires like grass fires, incipient car fires, etc the pressurized water (or garden hose) works well. You can also use the pressurized water to squirt small, controlled amounts of water into a firebox to produce steam to draw up the chimney to help smother a chimney fire -- my first choice is still sprinkling in dry powder but most people don't have baggies of it handy. We're talking just squirt-and-steam, not throwing half a gallon and risk cracking the metal or flash steam burns.
If things are getting out of hand a 3/4" hose can help you confine a pretty good amount of fire -- you have to use good judgement...if the little voice in your head is saying, "This is stupid..." for once, listen to it.
9) If you can't afford anything else, at least have a small 2-1/2# dry chemical extinguisher in the kitchen for the cooking oil type fires (water will sink below the oil surface, flash into steam, and throw hot and/or burning oil all over the place). And the 3/4" garden hose in the basement you can haul up for everything else. Dry Chemical isn't very effective on wood & paper type fires, which is why you want the water available.
10) And keep fresh batteries in your smoke & CO detectors.
2) Chimfex flares are not currently manufactured, haven't been since around 2000 when the factory burned down, Orion Signal has said they may re-start production in summer of '09.
3) Never light a Chimfex flare on the side of the road. Obscuring visibility with a cloud of smoke is not your intent
4) "Chimney Bombs" have become a widespread fire department practice. These are just ziploc baggies filled with dry chemical. Toss 'em down from the top. Some of the newer tactics include, if there is a good draft, sprinklering them in the firebox and letting the draft carry it up the flue -- that's particulary a good "first aid" until you can ladder the roof, drop bombs if still needed, and clean the chimney to prevent rekindle.
5) You can use a dry chemical extinguisher through the firebox and up the chimney as long as there's a good draft (some chimneys will plug; some with a lot of creosote will plug really badly as burning chunks sloff off and fall down which becomes a royal ##### to put out and clean out). If you don't have a draft, you'll get a face full of dry chemical back at you, and that stuff is an incredible pain to clean from a house.
6) "Purple K" is the "good stuff" of the Dry Chemical world. It's primarily potassium bicarbonate along with a few additives to keep it as a free-flowing powder despite long storage times. It is more effective then sodium bicarbonate based dry chemical, but it's also not necessary for a chimney fire.
Because it's more expensive, it's usually just used where there is a significant flammable liquids fire problem, and then it's often teamed up with water-based foam as a "twin agent" system -- the Purple K knocks down the fire, then the foam is applied to cool sources of reignition (hot metal, etc) and create a smothering blanket between fuel and air.
7) "Class K" is a fairly new extinguisher rating to go with A (wood & paper), B (flammable liquids), C (electrified equipment), and D (metals).
Class K is a WET chemical, and was developed because today's health concious vegetable cooking oils burn hotter and reignite easier then your father's animal fat based cooking oils. The "K" is for kitchen, because their use is confined to commercial kitchen installations. When activated, the extinguisher heads produce a fine mist which knocks down the fire, cools hot surfaces, and helps seal against re-flash of the oil surface.
8) My own recommendations...
Everyone should have a decent 20# Dry Chemical Extinguisher, a 2-1/2 gallon Pressurized Water Extinguisher, and a 3/4" garden hose hooked up to the water tank in the basement with a good nozzle and enough hose to reach anywhere in the house.
The pressurized water extinguishers are fairly cheap, and you can refill them yourselves as long as you have a 100psi air compressor with tire chuck. Add a good dollop of dishwashing soap to the water after you fill it, helps the water stick and sink into material instead of rolling off.
Stuff like grease fires in the kitchen, car fires in the yard you can knock down with the dry chem, then keep 'em down with the pressurized water or hose till the fire department can get there.
Fires like grass fires, incipient car fires, etc the pressurized water (or garden hose) works well. You can also use the pressurized water to squirt small, controlled amounts of water into a firebox to produce steam to draw up the chimney to help smother a chimney fire -- my first choice is still sprinkling in dry powder but most people don't have baggies of it handy. We're talking just squirt-and-steam, not throwing half a gallon and risk cracking the metal or flash steam burns.
If things are getting out of hand a 3/4" hose can help you confine a pretty good amount of fire -- you have to use good judgement...if the little voice in your head is saying, "This is stupid..." for once, listen to it.
9) If you can't afford anything else, at least have a small 2-1/2# dry chemical extinguisher in the kitchen for the cooking oil type fires (water will sink below the oil surface, flash into steam, and throw hot and/or burning oil all over the place). And the 3/4" garden hose in the basement you can haul up for everything else. Dry Chemical isn't very effective on wood & paper type fires, which is why you want the water available.
10) And keep fresh batteries in your smoke & CO detectors.
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November Wolf
ArboristSite Operative
I like that special K with the strawberrys in it. I might Just have me a bowl now.:hmm3grin2orange:
Seriously we use Purple K at work which I believe you may have meant.
Great post dalmatian, I might add its important to educate everybody in your household on the use of these products. While growing up, my kids were often asked "out of the blue" where the closest fire extinguisher to them was.
Nice post Dalmatian90. I gusse the real point here is what to do to try to save your house. Alittle bit of something might be good till the FD comes. There only 2 blocks away, but when you have a big box like I do, I want be sure to do it safely. Thanks.
sloth9669
ArboristSite Guru
all fixed i know that is its real name and is what i meant but it is special !!
Metals406
Granfodder Runningsaw
An old remedy is to wet newspaper, throw it in the firebox, and shut down the stove... My dad used it years ago for a chimney fire and it worked just fine.
Basically there are many ways to put out a chimney fire, but ALL involve disrupting at least ONE element of the Fire Triangle. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_triangle .
IF you don't remove at least one of the triangle sides that a fire requires with whatever tool or method that you use, then the fire, no matter what kind of fire you have, will continue to burn. I don't know what road flares could do to remove one of the 3 elements that a fire needs, but I would not take the chance by trying to use one. Also remember that a chimney fire is in a different location than your fire in your stove, so if a flare were to work, then somehow you've got to get the flare up to the chimney fire. Maybe the thinking is that the smoke from a flare would do the job? I doubt that it would if the fire had it's own or larger source of air than the flare's smoke could smother.
This was the advice given to me.
Keep a large spray bottle of water beside the woodstove supplies in order to spray the burning wood inside the stove IF and when there is ever a chimney fire. The reason for this tool, is for it to Quickly create STEAM or water vapour, as steam works very quickly to dissipate heat in the chimney as per the Fire Triangle. Google search "Fire Triangle" to learn more.
One of these 3 elements needs to be QUICKLY removed to extinguish a fire and up a chimney, steam gets there the fastest. In a stove, adding baking soda or a dry chem extinguisher will work in the actual firebox, but soda or dry chem may not reach or extinguish the fire UP inside the chimney, which already has it's own fuel (creosote), and it's already created its own heat and can also draw oxygen/air from loose fiitting pipes, or from the outside via the chimney exit. So steam will work the best and is the quickest to break the fire triangle, as it is easily drawn up the chimney by heat, and like smoke, goes EVERYWHERE and so steam will disrupt the fire triangle the fastest. DO NOT put enough water on the burning wood to IMMEDIATELY extinguish it, or else it may not create enough steam to get up and to put out the chimney fire, which is now it's own beast and unrelated to the actual firebox fire. Also, if your damper is closed when you spray the burning wood with water to create steam, then that closed damper will slow or entirely prevent the steam from reaching the chimney fire, depending on how high it is in the chimney, to extinguish the chimney fire before it does damage.
Also, if you close the damper, it may or may not remove all the air availible to the chimney, again as air can either get in through cracks, or the top of the chimney. It will help "eventually", but maybe not before the chimney fire has already burned a lot of it's own fuel, your roof and your house.
Water vapour also won't crack the chimney or your stove as could a cold dose of water from above will, so it won't cause damage.
The main thing is to plan ALL of your strategies ahead of time and also prevent the fire in the first place as others have well advised.
"Stay Low in Smoke"
IF you don't remove at least one of the triangle sides that a fire requires with whatever tool or method that you use, then the fire, no matter what kind of fire you have, will continue to burn. I don't know what road flares could do to remove one of the 3 elements that a fire needs, but I would not take the chance by trying to use one. Also remember that a chimney fire is in a different location than your fire in your stove, so if a flare were to work, then somehow you've got to get the flare up to the chimney fire. Maybe the thinking is that the smoke from a flare would do the job? I doubt that it would if the fire had it's own or larger source of air than the flare's smoke could smother.
This was the advice given to me.
Keep a large spray bottle of water beside the woodstove supplies in order to spray the burning wood inside the stove IF and when there is ever a chimney fire. The reason for this tool, is for it to Quickly create STEAM or water vapour, as steam works very quickly to dissipate heat in the chimney as per the Fire Triangle. Google search "Fire Triangle" to learn more.
One of these 3 elements needs to be QUICKLY removed to extinguish a fire and up a chimney, steam gets there the fastest. In a stove, adding baking soda or a dry chem extinguisher will work in the actual firebox, but soda or dry chem may not reach or extinguish the fire UP inside the chimney, which already has it's own fuel (creosote), and it's already created its own heat and can also draw oxygen/air from loose fiitting pipes, or from the outside via the chimney exit. So steam will work the best and is the quickest to break the fire triangle, as it is easily drawn up the chimney by heat, and like smoke, goes EVERYWHERE and so steam will disrupt the fire triangle the fastest. DO NOT put enough water on the burning wood to IMMEDIATELY extinguish it, or else it may not create enough steam to get up and to put out the chimney fire, which is now it's own beast and unrelated to the actual firebox fire. Also, if your damper is closed when you spray the burning wood with water to create steam, then that closed damper will slow or entirely prevent the steam from reaching the chimney fire, depending on how high it is in the chimney, to extinguish the chimney fire before it does damage.
Also, if you close the damper, it may or may not remove all the air availible to the chimney, again as air can either get in through cracks, or the top of the chimney. It will help "eventually", but maybe not before the chimney fire has already burned a lot of it's own fuel, your roof and your house.
Water vapour also won't crack the chimney or your stove as could a cold dose of water from above will, so it won't cause damage.
The main thing is to plan ALL of your strategies ahead of time and also prevent the fire in the first place as others have well advised.
"Stay Low in Smoke"
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taxidermist
ArboristSite Operative
Purple K is different than a K type fire extingusher Purple K is a dry powder type fire ext. for class B&C fires made to break the chemical chain reaction of a fire.
K ext. is for class B only(grease fires) it is a wet slurry Not good for chimney fires.
An A B C all purpose extinguisher shot into the fire box and then shut the door is the best, it will suck it up the chimney with the draft. Verry messy but way better than cleaning up your house with a loader after it burns.
Hope this helps.
Rob
Locoweed
ArboristSite Guru
An ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure.
Don't restrict the air flow, burn dry wood, clean your pipe/chimney at least once a year.
Don't restrict the air flow, burn dry wood, clean your pipe/chimney at least once a year.
Coldfront
Addicted to ArboristSite
I used to hear dumping a 1 lb bag of salt down the chimney works good?
Dalmatian90
Addicted to ArboristSite
And you better have same damn good welding gloves if you're gonna stand up there shaking salt down. And you should have the fire department on the way since the salt won't actually accomplishing anything other then adding a pound of salt to your cleanout at the bottom of the stove.
You *could* put out a chimney fire with salt, exact same way you'd put it out with sand -- bring enough up to the roof to fill the chimney up, you'll smother the fire. Not a terribly practical way.
Same thing goes for salt in the kitchen. Yes, salt can smother a grease fire. Don't even bother trying, because the amount of salt you need to smother a fire isn't worth it, it's one of those "facts" that is a dangerous waste of time.
Baking SODA can put out a grease fire, since it works as a dry chemical to extinguish the fire...but again, it's not terribly practical on most grease fires since it would be hard to apply it. I suppose if you're desperate because you don't have a lid to put over the burning oil, you could try tossing handfuls towards the fire.
Baking Soda is Sodium Bicarbonate, which is used in some dry chemical extinguishers -- but they include other ingredients to keep the dry chem from caking up during long term storage, and make it real easy to apply to the fire. The only reason I don't recommend making "chimney bombs" from plain baking soda is I have visions of people having a bit of moisture get into it, so they toss the bomb down the chimney and a solid clump of baking soda lands at the bottom...you want the dry chemical to be dispersed on it's way down as the bag melts.
I don't disagree with the idea of a large spray bottle, but it doesn't work on a the leg fire triangle you said.
Actually, we should first use the expanded fire triangle -- a fire needs four things:
-- Oxygen
-- Fuel
-- Heat
-- Chemical Chain Reaction
When you squirt small amounts of water into the firebox, you're removing heat from the woodstove/fireplace itself, but very little if any from the chimney.
It takes 1 BTU to raise 1 pound of water 1 degree farenheit, so figure that's 147 BTUs going from 65º to 212º. But then it takes 970 BTUs to turn one pound of water in steam at standard temperature & pressure. It's that converstion to steam that really suck the heat out of the fire.
Steam itself doesn't absorb heat well.
The steam also displaces oxygen, since water expands in volume 1700 times when it converts from a liquid to a gas. That's the primary effect you want on a chimney fire when using this trick. The steam isn't removing the heat from the creosote burning in the chimney, it's smothering it.
I'd have to see it in person to decide wether a squirt bottle could generate enough steam fast enough to smother the fire in the chimney. A pressurized water extinguisher sure can, and so could a simple pump sprayer like you use to spray pesticides. On either of those, squirt the water in as fast as you can so it goes up the chimney without having it backup into the house.
If you have an air tight stove, by far the best initial action is just close the dampers and stop the airflow. Many chimney fires are just brief affairs that burn themselves out within moments of starting. If the chimney is still going like a roman candle and doesn't look like it's slowing down then maybe you try the steam smothering trick.
Dry Chemicals work on the chemical chain reaction part of the fire, interrupting that. So if you're using a dry chem extinguisher, your goal is to get the chemical up the flue...short bursts hopefully will allow the natural draft to carry them up and interfere with the reaction to knock down the fire. They don't remove the heat, fuel, or oxygen so you can have the fire re-kindle if conditions are right.
The Chimfex flares IIRC worked by a combination of smothering and carrying dry chemicals in their smoke.
Even with the steam smothering, you could get the same thing once the steam stops and oxygen is available again. This is why it's important to clean the chimney immediately to remove the fuel (creosote) to make sure you don't have it catch fire again.
If removing hot creosote after the fire is knocked down and you're cleaning the chimney, you have to be careful -- asbestos gloves, tools, have metal buckets with lids at the ready because it can flare up as you remove it from the cleanout and more fresh air hits it. Shovel it into the bucket, pop the lid on it to control the smoke / fire. Remove it outside to a garden or some similiar spot, and if there isn't a lot of snow on the ground wet it down outside to extinguish it.
I've got a Chimfex flare that's been laying in the bottom of my kindling box for about 15 years. I just realized I've forgotten how to use it and all the directions have worn off it. Do you just throw it in the firebox and close the door?
Chimfex Directions: Before activating, stand in front of fireplace or wood-burning stove.
Hold Chimfex at its base so it extends over fireplace hearth or fireproof stove-board.
To activate, remove top lid to expose scratch surface on cap. Twist and remove cap
to expose black button. Make sure Chimfex is pointed away from face and body,
lightly scratch black button with cap. Immediately drop in next to fire.
Hold Chimfex at its base so it extends over fireplace hearth or fireproof stove-board.
To activate, remove top lid to expose scratch surface on cap. Twist and remove cap
to expose black button. Make sure Chimfex is pointed away from face and body,
lightly scratch black button with cap. Immediately drop in next to fire.
