Question for the Crane Ninja's

[sgreanbeans]

So we did a massive removal and we used a 40-ton. All went well. As you OG's know, I have little crane exp. How do you do the cuts, do u snap cut, leave a little and have the crane rip what is left ( I no like this ) cut all the way thru in one shot, using sticks to keep from pinch the bar?. I realize that u have to adjust to the sit, but was wondering how u guys attack it. To this point, I was taught that you don't want that crane trying to rip anything, that it should be a nice clean break. TV, would love to here from u on this.

 

[epicklein22]

So we did a massive removal and we used a 40-ton. All went well. As you OG's know, I have little crane exp. How do you do the cuts, do u snap cut, leave a little and have the crane rip what is left ( I no like this ) cut all the way thru in one shot, using sticks to keep from pinch the bar?. I realize that u have to adjust to the sit, but was wondering how u guys attack it. To this point, I was taught that you don't want that crane trying to rip anything, that it should be a nice clean break. TV, would love to here from u on this.

Beans, just watch some videos of Reg on Youtube. Can't get any better. Treecare Inc does nice work as well. Mike Poor, you get the idea.

You start your cut on the same side as where the strap goes up to the ball and cut all the way through. Don't play around, full throttle all the way through. If you try to cut it slow, you'll get pinched. If the strap is in the proper location and the operator has proper tension, it should cut through perfect and the pick should practically sit right above the cut.

Cranes are sweet, I would try to utilize them when available and always keep them in mind when doing a bid.

 

[2treeornot2tree]

I agree, once you start your cut don't be screwin around.

 

[Mike Cantolina]

I think your guys should have the opportunity to read this too:

Best Practices For Crane Use in Arboriculture by TCIA : SherrllTree Tree Care Equipment

 

[Slvrmple72]

Smaller limbs we just cut right through and let the crane fly it away. We are doing mostly picks on chokers and will butt tie them or double choke them to keep them from twisting or moving towards the bucket or rarely a climber in the tree. Break cuts are used a lot of the time and for the low horizontal limbs I undercut further out from the trunk of the tree and finish with the top cut closer to the branch collar varying the spacing between them depending on the size of the limb/ any defects, and type of tree. This creates a shelf for the butt to sit on while the crane operator lifts the piece to fly it away. None of what we do is nealry as smooth as Reg's work....:msp_thumbup:

 

[treeclimber101]

Where's OL dirty when ya need him ? He sure could get to the bottom of your questions .....

 

[Zale]

Your choker placement is going to save you a lot headaches. I've used snap cuts, cut all the way through etc. All depends on the situation. If you can find a crane operator you like and trust, stick with that operator. Building a relationship with that operator will make all the difference between a great day and a day from hell.

Get a set of two-ways also. Talking to the operator instead of yelling over all the noise is less frustrating. Good luck.

 

[mattfr12]

Where's OL dirty when ya need him ? He sure could get to the bottom of your questions .....

Ya he is a good source especially if your talking about working with pics of real weight 6k+. We use the knuckle boom or a 40ton daily if the 100ton is available from the local construction business they give us a deal on it. but some of the things i don't understand is guys that are saying cut it off as fast as you can. I don't think i would be doing that at about 75% through i stop and see how much the gap is opening if its open a few inches above my bar i know he has to take some of the tension off. i look for it to be opening around an 1/8inch off my bar. if its opening to fast its gonna come off like a rocket ship and possibly hit you extremely hard so don't go buzzing through it. its a thing of finesse i usually am only burping the chainsaw at the end and rarely get stuck if its loaded onto the crane properly. id much rather be getting my bar stuck then it pooping off. 3000 pound piece needs 1200 to 1500 pounds of pretension to get enough slack out of the boom and cable so the piece doesn't sag when it comes off.

on horizontal limbs i leave a shelf so the bottom doesn't fall out during my shelf cut. i make the under cut around 5-6 inches in front of the top cut so it has a shelf to sit on then i spike behind the trunk and let it lift off. if done right there really isn't anything to tear off we never have to pull with any real force to break the shelf. when your really good at it you can cut it and it will sit there long enough for you to get somewhere safe and comfortable to stand while it is lifting away. rolling off popping off is no dice your gonna get hurt sooner or later.

watch some of mike cantolina''s stuff i was impressed he's smooth with it and knows what he is doing. id feel comfortable with him rigging with our cranes. i cant say i would say the same thing about someone buzzing through a piece as fast as they can. your not gonna have enough time to react.

 

[KenJax Tree]

A good crane op can make all the difference too, one of the best crane ops i've ever had was a girl.

 

[2treeornot2tree]

Ya he is a good source especially if your talking about working with pics of real weight 6k+. We use the knuckle boom or a 40ton daily if the 100ton is available from the local construction business they give us a deal on it. but some of the things i don't understand is guys that are saying cut it off as fast as you can. I don't think i would be doing that at about 75% through i stop and see how much the gap is opening if its open a few inches above my bar i know he has to take some of the tension off. i look for it to be opening around an 1/8inch off my bar. if its opening to fast its gonna come off like a rocket ship and possibly hit you extremely hard so don't go buzzing through it. its a thing of finesse i usually am only burping the chainsaw at the end and rarely get stuck if its loaded onto the crane properly. id much rather be getting my bar stuck then it pooping off. 3000 pound piece needs 1200 to 1500 pounds of pretension to get enough slack out of the boom and cable so the piece doesn't sag when it comes off.

on horizontal limbs i leave a shelf so the bottom doesn't fall out during my shelf cut. i make the under cut around 5-6 inches in front of the top cut so it has a shelf to sit on then i spike behind the trunk and let it lift off. if done right there really isn't anything to tear off we never have to pull with any real force to break the shelf. when your really good at it you can cut it and it will sit there long enough for you to get somewhere safe and comfortable to stand while it is lifting away. rolling off popping off is no dice your gonna get hurt sooner or later.

watch some of mike cantolina''s stuff i was impressed he's smooth with it and knows what he is doing. id feel comfortable with him rigging with our cranes. i cant say i would say the same thing about someone buzzing through a piece as fast as they can. your not gonna have enough time to react.

If you have it tensioned right before you start cutting, you can buzz right threw it. Done it many times without a problem.

 

[ducaticorse]

If you have it tensioned right before you start cutting, you can buzz right threw it. Done it many times without a problem.

Ive seen reg's vids a few years ago of him doing an entire trunk in the back of a house, crane out front. Went right through the base and the fahkin thing just hovered there like magic. Then floated away., Quite trick.

 

[mattfr12]

Ive seen reg's vids a few years ago of him doing an entire trunk in the back of a house, crane out front. Went right through the base and the fahkin thing just hovered there like magic. Then floated away., Quite trick.

Reg is the best but even he doesn't go full tilt straight through in most of his videos he's burping it at release so if something out if line he can adjust.

 

[beastmaster]

I asked those same questions about 4 years ago, and ol dirty was kind enough to give me several tips I still use today. choker placement and cutting straight throu are important but its odd shaped weird balanced stuff that's tricky. finding the balance point on limbs to set your choker at makes for some sweet picks. Its easy to under estimate how much all that green weighs and cause the piece to flip.(log weight chart won't help with that)
A good operator is worth his weight in gold, and can right any mistakes you might make. Nothing beats experience, most of it is basic and intuitive once you understand the whats going on.
I never did a crane removal for most my career, but these last 5 or 6 years I'v been doing more and more of them to the point I do them almost every week now. I still consider my self a novice and I seem to learn something new each month. For some reason cranes aren't as popular it seems on the west coast for tree work, but that is changing too I think. From a labor and financial stand point cranes rock.

 

[epicklein22]

If you have it tensioned right before you start cutting, you can buzz right threw it. Done it many times without a problem.

You got that right. Proper tension will allow the saw to go through smooth, hence letting the pick come off smooth. One of the biggest problems for crane operators new to tree work is judging tension. It's a dynamic load and they have no idea what the exact weight is either. They over tension it and rip the piece off before the saw is done cutting. That shock loads the crane, makes the piece swing and spooks out the climber. Operator makes all the difference. A good operator will have just enough tension and your saw will go through good and the pick comes off smooth.

Snap cuts have very limited uses IMO, using the crane to finish the cut is gonna cause shock load. Spider legs or other rigging should be used if possible to avoid them.

The best operator you can have is a climber, he know what you are going through and has the knowledge of working with trees. Let's everyone stay in the same mindset.

There are very few "good" crane operators; smoothness is key first and foremost. I'm selling my 11 ton crane right now and I've had a few tree guys come look at it. They are just plain sloppy. Had one guy smack the ball off the boom! If smooth, you're safer and you become fast since there is no stopping. The guys on the crane crew at work are making picks every 10 to 15 minutes. The operator is flat out great and makes all the difference.

 

[2treeornot2tree]

You got that right. Proper tension will allow the saw to go through smooth, hence letting the pick come off smooth. One of the biggest problems for crane operators new to tree work is judging tension. It's a dynamic load and they have no idea what the exact weight is either. They over tension it and rip the piece off before the saw is done cutting. That shock loads the crane, makes the piece swing and spooks out the climber. Operator makes all the difference. A good operator will have just enough tension and your saw will go through good and the pick comes off smooth.

Snap cuts have very limited uses IMO, using the crane to finish the cut is gonna cause shock load. Spider legs or other rigging should be used if possible to avoid them.

The best operator you can have is a climber, he know what you are going through and has the knowledge of working with trees. Let's everyone stay in the same mindset.

There are very few "good" crane operators; smoothness is key first and foremost. I'm selling my 11 ton crane right now and I've had a few tree guys come look at it. They are just plain sloppy. Had one guy smack the ball off the boom! If smooth, you're safer and you become fast since there is no stopping. The guys on the crane crew at work are making picks every 10 to 15 minutes. The operator is flat out great and makes all the difference.

I always watch the cable at the ball swivel while the operator is tighting up. The cable normally twists when you are starting to get tension on the ball. You need a good operator, but really the climber is the closest to the piece, and should make the final detemination on whats enough tension.

 

[MarquisTree]

You sould ask OD back to answer your questions on this thread.

 

[treeclimber101]

You sould ask OD back to answer your questions on this thread.

Yea right as who ????? He's running outta alias's

 

[beastmaster]

You sould ask OD back to answer your questions on this thread.

http://www.arboristsite.com/commercial-tree-care-climbing/131652.htm

oldirty
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all one cut for the most part. knuckleboom too, right? so you won't have cable up or down just boom movement.

look at the wood and where you choked it. figure out where the pinch is going to happen and cut all that wood first and then bring the power head around finishing the cut under the ball/hook. theoretically the ball is lifting at that point so if you make cut all the pinchy stuff first and then chase to that point it should just stay or barely float on the stem.

know your weights too. popping the wood after the cut is doodoo practice. means both you and the CO were wrong.
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[TheJollyLogger]

You got that right. Proper tension will allow the saw to go through smooth, hence letting the pick come off smooth. One of the biggest problems for crane operators new to tree work is judging tension. It's a dynamic load and they have no idea what the exact weight is either. They over tension it and rip the piece off before the saw is done cutting. That shock loads the crane, makes the piece swing and spooks out the climber. Operator makes all the difference. A good operator will have just enough tension and your saw will go through good and the pick comes off smooth.

Snap cuts have very limited uses IMO, using the crane to finish the cut is gonna cause shock load. Spider legs or other rigging should be used if possible to avoid them.

The best operator you can have is a climber, he know what you are going through and has the knowledge of working with trees. Let's everyone stay in the same mindset.

There are very few "good" crane operators; smoothness is key first and foremost. I'm selling my 11 ton crane right now and I've had a few tree guys come look at it. They are just plain sloppy. Had one guy smack the ball off the boom! If smooth, you're safer and you become fast since there is no stopping. The guys on the crane crew at work are making picks every 10 to 15 minutes. The operator is flat out great and makes all the difference.

A good operator uses his lmi to set the right tension.

 

[sgreanbeans]

Thanks fellas, good stuff right there.

I had Justin on my mind when posting this, I know he is epic level with this stuff, but then he puts on his a ss hat and starts sending nasty stuff to me on Facebook,WTF?, so I wont be asking him back. Also, I didn't ban him last time under his new name.

We had a awesome, seasoned operator, but found out that he is retiring in 2 months, that figures! That was my problem back home, like I said before, I would watch these guys and when they cut stuff loose, the log goes flying, the crane starts bouncing, just looked like a bunch of idiots. Just last week a client called me from home, telling me about a major F-up with a local hacker and the known tree/crane outfit. They almost tipped the crane over, so the crane bails on them, leaves them with a cut trunk. So they just push it over into the next door yard and tear up all kinds of stuff. The yard was my clients and she said that she could tell, no one knew what they where doing. So it always made me nervous bringing a crane in at home, no confidence. Now that I have done a big one with a great OP, I feel the need to do more.

Going to be taking out 40 mexi fan palms, all about 60ft. plan on having the crane for it as well, going to take the trees in one shot. Should be pretty fun, going to leave about 4ft there so we can grab them with a mini ex, with a thumb and pop the stumps. From what I understand, the palms will pop out pretty easy, is this true (Beasty, Jeff and Mike)
I am debating on whether to have the bucket go thru them first and get the tops out, so that way we are just picking logs and can bring in a end dump to lay them in, so that way we don't have to cut them up.
Gotta say, I really hate palms. They are just a PITA. Material is expensive to get rid of, corrodes the equip, nasty clean up and they have WAY TOO MANY pokey things! Give me a big maple, elm or oak any day! Eucs are ok, but they GUM up so much crap (pun intended).

Thanks again guys, I am picking up what you are saying.