Regulation in the industry

[ducaticorse]

Mandatory nation wide Ins and Safety standards like the rest of the skilled trades, thoughts?


Would you be willing to undergo a state inspection to legally provide your service in your state?

Pros/Cons?

 

[CNBTreeTrimming]

In theory that would help, but there isn't anything that will stop the truck and saw guys or the lawn guys from doing it anyway unlicensed. Enough people are out of work that everyone is a handyman or tree trimmer.

 

[TreeClimber57]

Yes.

I would.

I already pay WSIB, $10M Liability Insurance..

Just paid to have Health and Safety manuals updated. Get it done here: OSHA Safety Training

They make it to comply with Canadian regulations which differ from OSHA in some places.

Would like to see:
a) mandatory liability insurance -- minimum of maybe $3M
b) mandatory WSIB
c) mandatory proof of training for all employees
d) mandatory enforcement of CVOR on trucks -- actually supposed to be there now.. but a lot of the hacks don't do it

Bring it on!!!

Oh.. and it has to be enforced.. with a toll free # to call to report violators.

I personally hate too much gov't.. but as long as they don't try to legislate how we climb trees and do the job.. some basic enforcement of what (in some cases) is really the law already the I would be ok.

Pros - may level the playing field a bit - bring some fees in line
Cons - if it is not controlled then of no value - if over regulated (ie: beyond what I have listed above) then could be PITA

 

[TreeClimber57]

In theory that would help, but there isn't anything that will stop the truck and saw guys or the lawn guys from doing it anyway unlicensed. Enough people are out of work that everyone is a handyman or tree trimmer.

Don't mind people trying to make a living.. but make some rules.. and enforce them.

If they want to play by same rules great.. if not then enforce the law and fine them.

 

[BC WetCoast]

Not sure about the US, but in Canada most of these issues are provincial jurisdiction and at least here the Province is going to fight to keep their turf and keep the Feds out of it.

Second because each province has their own set of regulations regarding safety and licencing requirements, each province tends to spend more effort playing one upmanship with the others. Besides who would want to follow Ontario, they can't even put out a decent hockey team.

 

[treeman82]

If the fines were harsh enough, and the enforcement was tough enough... then yes I would be happy to comply. Otherwise, no. The simple reason being I am currently licensed and insured in accordance with state law and my own personal sense of responsibility for worker and client safety. That being said, most of my local competitors are not, and the state does nothing about it. If reported, the state may or may not take action.

 

[TreeClimber57]

If the fines were harsh enough, and the enforcement was tough enough... then yes I would be happy to comply. Otherwise, no.

:agree2:

 

[Rftreeman]

You can have all the regulations in the world but it still won't get rid of the reasons you want the regulations in the first place, there will always be people who will work without it and people who will pay said people to do the work....

 

[Grace Tree]

You can have all the regulations in the world but it still won't get rid of the reasons you want the regulations in the first place, there will always be people who will work without it and people who will pay said people to do the work....

+1
My answer would be no. Asking the government to come in and fix things through regulations is like asking Tony Soprano for help.
Phil

 

[sgreanbeans]

Big yes!
We are working this issue in my area right now. Getting a test of basic knowledge, upping the fee, implementing a Tree Warden program, sign Code of Ethics,site inspections, etc.
Should be pretty good, have the backing of the City's and the other C.A's. Me, a City Forester and the Big Dog in the area are putting it together.

Thought I would stop in and say Hi to all, have been putting my nose to the books!

 

[TreeClimber57]

You can have all the regulations in the world but it still won't get rid of the reasons you want the regulations in the first place, there will always be people who will work without it and people who will pay said people to do the work....

True.

But mostly because..
a) penalty is not stiff enough.. no teeth -- should be a fine..
-- maybe $2000 for every tree worked on - up to a maximum of $20,000
-- AND a fine of $1000 for every tree worked on - up to same maximum for person who hired the illegitimate contractor..

b) enforcement is too weak..

Now if you really want to up the stakes you could also add (but personally I am not in favor of last item)..

c) reward of $500 for every tree reported being worked on by illigetimate contractor

 

[TreeClimber57]

+1
My answer would be no. Asking the government to come in and fix things through regulations is like asking Tony Soprano for help.
Phil

Unfortunately, gov't does not do much well.. and what they do well they are 3 times as costly as they need to be. Too many people sitting in chairs who don't know what they are doing.. drawing salary and drinking coffee.

 

[lxt]

You can have all the regulations in the world but it still won't get rid of the reasons you want the regulations in the first place, there will always be people who will work without it and people who will pay said people to do the work....

right on!!!

I read what one would want penalty wise & insurance wise, etc... why 3mil liability?? who cares that you have 10mil??? i see 10 mil as ridiculous personally unless you are working on powerlines???? & who is gonna pay for the enforcement of all the compliant officers needed to enforce such laws?? try to sell that to this economy.....LMFAO!!

this is all futile, what if the home owner performs his own tree butchering assault.....you gonna fine him? tree warden gonna arrest him....If such laws were to be put into place..........then the governmental body who made such a law should/would be ultimately responsible for "the trees"...do you know what kinda liability that would entail? cause if Mr. law is gonna tell me: its our tree but your responsibility..............then in the dark of night Ill be a cutting em down...ooops must a been vandals!

I work for my borough & a guy here wanted them to remove a tree "hazard tree" he said he pays property tax & therefore someone should remove that tree......well the joke at council was how bout we cut the residents grass for free to?? ha ha ha!!! plain & simple: its his private property!!! & therefore his responsibility........to enforce such rules as stated here would mean to take away the right of private property.............I think remington/ S&S might say different!!

Hell NO to regulation!! & if a biz is operating illegally...........turn em in to the proper authorities!!! as if those wanting such Regs are 100% legit?, yeah right!!




LXT..........

 

[TreeClimber57]

why 3mil liability?? who cares that you have 10mil??? .

Well, around here in tree work.. 3mil is pretty much minimum anybody has.. (maybe is high for some areas) and $10mil is mandatory if you want to bid on most gov't jobs. (some only need $5mil -- but that it the minimum on any gov't or municipal job)

Frankly to go from $3mil to $10mil is not a huge increase in premium.

 

[TreeClimber57]

what if the home owner performs his own tree butchering assault.....you gonna fine him?

Actually.. the nearest city to where I am located.. and where I do a lot of work.. that is in fact the case.

There are two city by-laws - one covering public trees and one private trees.

To cut down any healthy tree requires a permit -- $1,000 per tree without one. (now this is easy to get if you are replacing tree) If damaged or dead.. then not an issue.
If you damage a healthy tree there is a fine ($1,000 per tree - which is where I got #s from posted above.. didn't make them up out of thin air.. ).
There are other rules.. some a bit excessive.. IMHO.

I picked the ones that were most palatable.

If you want see by-laws I can send them to you via mail.

And.. we had at least half a dozen removals this past year where owners had received citations to remove dead trees or receive a fine ( in same city ).

 

[TreeClimber57]

No!

Careful what you wish for.

There are much more important issues our government needs to be concerned with.

Can't disagree with that logic.

Problem is.. if gov't were to get involved in anything.. they over regulate it.

(if they did it right then I would be ok with it -- but past experience tells me then are incapable of doing it right)

You should see some of our local city by-laws.. being up held by some as "model examples"..

Some are examples of over government.. or government on steroids.

 

[ducaticorse]

true.

But mostly because..
A) penalty is not stiff enough.. No teeth -- should be a fine..
-- maybe $2000 for every tree worked on - up to a maximum of $20,000
-- and a fine of $1000 for every tree worked on - up to same maximum for person who hired the illegitimate contractor..

B) enforcement is too weak..

Now if you really want to up the stakes you could also add (but personally i am not in favor of last item)..

C) reward of $500 for every tree reported being worked on by illigetimate contractor

exactly

 

[Rftreeman]

people keep pushing for regulation and rope's theory will come true, all the small guys will get phased out and all we'll have is walmart tree services..is that what you guys want, a big box store only industry....

 

[ducaticorse]

people keep pushing for regulation and rope's theory will come true, all the small guys will get phased out and all we'll have is walmart tree services..is that what you guys want, a big box store only industry....

No, but enforcement of the current laws on the books would be nice. In MA, it's a $500 frist day per person, $200 each additional day per for no workman's comp. That would put pretty much every CL hack out of business overnight, since most don't have a business license, and you need one to get workman's comp in MA. THEN you have to apply to the assigned comp pool, and wait for a compant to pick you up and bind a policy, and you have to pay the entire premium upfront.

Yes, you'll say, then the hack will just ignore, and start again somewhere else. Maybe so, BUT, god help him if he ever gets caught again....

 

[jrr344]

Sounds to me like you guys ought to quit and live off the government if you can't do a good job and make a living. I love how people feel it is the governments responsability to take care of them. You could get your welfare checks and not worry about competition.