Safety Alert: Stop Use Petzl ZIGZAG

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Justin.at.Petzl

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As a follow-up to Petzl's previous Saftey Information issued April 15, and after conducting additional testing, Petzl is issuing a Stop-Use Safety Alert for the ZIGZAG mechanical Prusik.

Petzl asks all ZIGZAG users to do the following:
- Stop use of the ZIGZAG Mechanical Prusik immediately
- Download and read the Safety Alert PDF containing important information (linked to below)

Safety Alert: Stop use Petzl ZIGZAG Mechanical Prusik

Petzl appreciates your help and patience in this matter, and we sincerely apologize for this inconvenience.

Rick Vance
Technical Information Manager
Petzl America
 
"In this configuration, we have observed a failure of the rope end attachment hole of the ZIGZAG under 4 kN of load (equivalent to short fall, repeated shock or sudden stop, etc)."

What does that say of the thoroughness of your testing procedures BEFORE Petzl started distributing the ZigZag?
 
I am willing to return mine for $650 + shipping.
Payment must be received prior to shipping, of course.
 
Wow, Jared lucky you unloaded yours when you did! Glad I didn't buy one ....yet.....never

Not really. Think about the poor bastard that got it. Besides, it seems that if you own one you could make profit selling it back to the people who made it. That's the American Way right?

I gotta say I have used Pretzle's hand ascender for over 10 years, it has never given me trouble even though it appears to be chinsey. It is, in fact, chinsey. There is not much to it, kinda like a die cast metal toy. I have always used a backup rope with it and as far as all this mechanical gear goes these days well I just don't know.
 
Not really. Think about the poor bastard that got it. Besides, it seems that if you own one you could make profit selling it back to the people who made it. That's the American Way right?

I gotta say I have used Pretzle's hand ascender for over 10 years, it has never given me trouble even though it appears to be chinsey. It is, in fact, chinsey. There is not much to it, kinda like a die cast metal toy. I have always used a backup rope with it and as far as all this mechanical gear goes these days well I just don't know.

Yep:msp_wink:
 
As a follow-up to Petzl's previous Saftey Information issued April 15, and after conducting additional testing, Petzl is issuing a Stop-Use Safety Alert for the ZIGZAG mechanical Prusik.

Petzl asks all ZIGZAG users to do the following:
- Stop use of the ZIGZAG Mechanical Prusik immediately
- Download and read the Safety Alert PDF containing important information (linked to below)

Safety Alert: Stop use Petzl ZIGZAG Mechanical Prusik

Petzl appreciates your help and patience in this matter, and we sincerely apologize for this inconvenience.

Rick Vance
Technical Information Manager
Petzl America

Screw you and the Zig Zag you climbed in on. Why I know 4 billion Chinamen that would take yer job in a heartbeat for half of what yer making if they could only speak English. Why I would drink half a bottle of vodka, smoke 6 Marlboros and beat you over the head with yer two hundred and thirty five dollar piece of ####### crap that you spent 6 hours in a toy store playing with before you shipped it over seas for production to ship it back to call it glory. You can take that thing, smear it with KY and twiggle it up yer ass Technical Information Manager or not. If you got something to say to change my mind then say it.
 
Yep:msp_wink:

Jared is a sucker for anything new and shiny. When he told me he bought one I was flabbergasted. I amost gave his a try... almost.

They use those Pretzle swivels at my kid's gymnastics school, I have said to them, " you know... that don't last forever." And to think that companies like Sherrill are pushing that flimsey stuff into this world of treework is somewhat astounding.
 
Screw you and the Zig Zag you climbed in on. Why I know 4 billion Chinamen that would take yer job in a heartbeat for half of what yer making if they could only speak English. Why I would drink half a bottle of vodka, smoke 6 Marlboros and beat you over the head with yer two hundred and thirty five dollar piece of ####### crap that you spent 6 hours in a toy store playing with before you shipped it over seas for production to ship it back to call it glory. You can take that thing, smear it with KY and twiggle it up yer ass Technical Information Manager or not. If you got something to say to change my mind then say it.



Lets hear what you really think about it dan :msp_biggrin:
 
I think I got the gist of it.....a subtle overtone of unhappiness. :msp_rolleyes:

How did they test this thing? With a bunch of Technical Managers in an air conditioned warehouse drinking carmel nut macchiatoes checking out each other's saddle bulge?

Saddle bulge = when yer genetailia is all scrumped up from the leg straps of yer saddle and is protruding obscenely and in a grotesque manner.:msp_unsure:
 
hey guys i heard about this petzl ZIGZAG too... it append all because here in europe precisely in germany, a guy was working with that crap and the system fail he really hurt himself, so petzl is questioning him to understand what causes the failure, they'r tray to said that was hes fault cuz i didn't insert the rope the right way, but apparently the truth is that the hole on top of the system, where the rope goes true, busted open, that is pretty bad.
i personally will never use something like that, especially in tree climbing, because i think that wood chips or leaf can get inside the system and causes jamming or total failure, i guess petzl screwed up on this one. :msp_scared:
 
I've been using petzl products for rock climbing, industrial access, rescue work and tree work for about 20 years now, and I've always found them to be very good. Their safety and testing far exceeds most other companies out there,the products are field tested extensively before being released, and they are very serious about following up on any incidents and making design changes as necessary. If there were medical bills to pay, petzl would step up to the plate.... unlike Kong etc.

Looking at the photos, and the nature of the failure, I'm wondering why other devices havent failed in a similar way. There certainly is potential to. A hitch climber pulley, for example, could have the carabiner get caught in one of the rings and get twisted/broken in a similar way. Or any mechanical ascender, or any device that has a narrow opening for a carabiner to attach. Devices like the unicender are at very little risk of this happening, though it's not inconceivable that a spiderjack would fail in the same way under the right circumstances. The hole is very small, and even though it's rounded, I think I could break it in an hour or two using a weight similar to a person. By setting the carabiner as per the failed petzl device and shock loading it, I think you'd see a failure.

The question is how to prevent it. There are a couple of options - make the holes a lot bigger, so a carabiner cant get caught, or make the holes a lot smoother/rounder and use a soft link between the device and the carabiner.

Shaun
 
I think it is quite odd, Shaun that this product has experienced a failure of this type within 3 months of being sold, whereas others that you mentioned have been around for years without similar incident. Also, why would this company not have included a cross-loading scenario in it's product testing? Right from the get go the zigzag was only designed for (slightly above) 15 KN load. Why not 23KN or more? Cause it would have added an extra ounce or two to the wight? Cause it might have made the unit slightly bulkier?

The trend I see here with Petzl seems to be focused way too much on making their products smaller and lighter. As in the new versions of their Croll, Pantin, and Grigri. Personally, I definitely prefer my CMI foot ascender (heavier, sturdier construction, and with a protective sleeve in the foot loop webbing) to my older Pantin. If I have to be physically fit enough to use a chainsaw in a tree, then why should I be expected to trust my life to some flimsy piece of stamped aluminum that Petzl engineers are focused on making even smaller and flimsier? Petzl's design philosophy is headed in the wrong direction, and I hope this ZigZag fiasco serves as a wakeup call to their R&D and engineering departments.
 
I'm certainly not here championing Petzl's cause, merely trying to put some sort of rational argument forward to counter the hysterics that have been posted on the previous page. I should say that I don't own and would never buy a zigzag, and have spoken out against them in other threads, but when it comes to manufacturing of heights safety equipment, Petzl has no real competition. I think in general many other rope access companies could learn from them.

I'll agree it's odd to have a failure so soon, but that doesn't mean it couldnt happen with other similar products as I have mentioned. It also doesn't mean that there would be a second failure in 3 months time, or ever, if nothing was done about the design. I think this really was quite a freak accident. Regardless, it will be corrected as it ought to be. Will other companies with much smaller R&D and testing departments, and a much looser testing regime now go and revisit their products? I think not.

As for your very valid question of why 15kn and not the more widely adopted 22kn standard for general life support, I don't have an answer. Im guessing it's partly because of the doubled rope system we use meaning that the product really only need be rated for 11kn to be the equivalent of an SRT product rated at 22kn. I don't know the spec for the unicender, spiderjack etc, but I would guess that they wouldn't be rated for 22kn either. I know from reading many independant tests of different styles of prussik knots that many of the knots we use every day slip at 4kn-6kn, and fail at 10-12kn. I can dig up some links for these if you'd be interested.

I'll agree with that trend you mentioned, but thats the way of mountaineering/rock climbing products. The products are designed with a target market in mind. Petzl makes many different types of products. Some, like the croll, gri gri and pantin are designed for markets where light weight is of importance. They are not intended for industrial use. Their industrial and rescue products are much more substantial, higher rated, better made, and appropriately priced. I have the older croll (a couple of them), an original, and a second generation grigri and have owned the pantin which I very much disliked. I own and use the CMI ascender and much prefer it.

None of those points change the subject of the zig zag, it's failure, what ought to be done about it, and whether other products from other manufacturers may be at risk of a similar failure. My opinion is that the failure was a freak accident, and that other similar products from other manufacturers are at risk of similar failures under the same circumstances. Petzl will address the problem, and find an appropriate solution. By then it will have hurt their entry into the tree products segment very badly, which is a shame because they have brought out some quite good products (sequoia swing harness, ascentree, treesbee etc). I think it's a good thing to see a major player like Petzl taking the tree service industry seriously, and designing products specifically for our use.

Shaun
 
I still find it hard to believe the zig zag failed under conditions of normal use. Mine works great and I hope (and predict) they will clear the device for use soon. I cant say to much about the ranting on the previous page because I feel the same way about a few products myself. In the past I read a post about a certain rigging device that had some reference to a dog in its name. The post comment was "they wont stop with this stupid crap until someone dies". Cant say I have heard of any accidents involving that thing though. But if someone was using the thing recklessly they could damn sure make it happen. I for one think Petzl will take care of things just fine. But for now the ZZ goes on the shelf, I just hope not for ever cuz its a great tool.
 
I think there is a big problem when a company (Petzl) will design an item (ZigZag) intended for life support to only marginally exceed a minimum strength standard. As a zigzag owner, I think that how Petzl addresses their/my problem is certainly gonna determine any future Petzl product purchases from this consumer. This is like getting served a lousy meal at a prestigious restaurant...do you go back again? Personally, I won't. Got really sick after eating some IKEA hotdogs a couple of years ago. Have never gone back to roll to dice again.
 
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