georgia
ArboristSite Lurker
I am going to order one of those steel core fliplines this week. How many of you use them and what advice do you have for the subject of fliplines?
safety lanyards (fliplines)
- Thread starter georgia
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monkeypuzzle
ArboristSite Guru
Dude,I don't climb a pole without it.Here in N.Florida,I take down a lot of Pines,I hate them,but hey , they are for the most part trees and thats what we do.5/8'' x 8',from WESPUR, I don't use a swivel snap,thats theweak link in my book,and the wonderfull Gibbs Ascender,what a combo man.You will keep your eye on the thing in the beginning,but you will learn to trust her.The 5/8'' size is easier to work. Rock and Roll
sonny
ArboristSite Guru
There fine, just dont get near any powerlines with them.& also dont plan on getting hurt in the tree, Where the need for someone need to cut you out. Not to many blowtorches on tree crews, or bolt cutters laying around.
Dave
ArboristSite Guru
I have a 5/8" x 10' that's good for smaller stuff and a 3/4" x 14' with a swivel snap on both ends that will get me up most any tree. Keep in mind two things regarding swivels- if (when) a rigid snap twists around the dee when you are fliplining and you lean back and untwist it with your body weight you might look like Darin's bungee jumping picture 
Also, swivel snaps are proof tested to 5000 lbs, like all climbing gear hardware. I know that little allen head bolt looks cheesy, but I wouldn't buy a flipline without 'em now 
I use a prusik so I can use both ends of the flipline but pine pitch will weld it right on for you 
Also, swivel snaps are proof tested to 5000 lbs, like all climbing gear hardware. I know that little allen head bolt looks cheesy, but I wouldn't buy a flipline without 'em now I use a prusik so I can use both ends of the flipline but pine pitch will weld it right on for you 
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
I like a steel for blocking out, situations where I may be cutting neer the line.
My primary lanyard in an 18ft peice of blue steak run through a grillon. Splice eye on both ends and an auminum (red italinan cmi?) clip girth hitched on the main working end. I daisychain the exess after the grillon and can use it as a second tie-in point.
When I replace it I'll use a fishemans on the clip for a little mor heft.
My primary lanyard in an 18ft peice of blue steak run through a grillon. Splice eye on both ends and an auminum (red italinan cmi?) clip girth hitched on the main working end. I daisychain the exess after the grillon and can use it as a second tie-in point.
When I replace it I'll use a fishemans on the clip for a little mor heft.
Toddppm
Addicted to ArboristSite
I only use a steelcore on takedowns where I'll be blocking down too, swivel doesn't bother me a bit. I bought that grillon at the last TCI show and can't get used to it, I don't like the fact that it can loosen up even with tension on it.
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
>>that it can loosen up even with tension on it
That is waht I likw about it. I have enver had it heppen without me pushing the lever. I can rock back and let line out with one hand. since I am using 1/2in line it is a little stickier then the stock cordage.
That is waht I likw about it. I have enver had it heppen without me pushing the lever. I can rock back and let line out with one hand. since I am using 1/2in line it is a little stickier then the stock cordage.
Tom Dunlap
Addicted to ArboristSite
The perception that steel core lanyards are more "cut resistant" is based only on anectodal evidence.
In actual cutting, a saw will cut through a tight lanyard just about as easy as a plain rope.
If climbers are using a steel core lanyard and cutting near their lanyard thinking that they are "safe", they are mistaken. That kind of thinking will allow a climber to put themselves in a dangerous situation. Better to position the lanyard and the climber where there is no chance of cutting anything except the tree.
How many climbers use a double tie in system when using a chainsaw? Maybe only when taking down the spar? For years I just used a lanyard when chunking down the spar but realized that I would be in a bad spot if I ever needed to descend, or cut my lanyard. Now, I ALWAYS have to connections when using a chainsaw. Even for pruning. Now that the ANSi Z133.1-2000 are in effect, this is what is required. I expect the same amount of compliance with this regulation as the ancient reg about wearing a helmet and safety glasses. The arguements for not double tieing will be the same as for not wearing helmets and glasses too.
Strong limbs and snug ropes!
Tom
In actual cutting, a saw will cut through a tight lanyard just about as easy as a plain rope.
If climbers are using a steel core lanyard and cutting near their lanyard thinking that they are "safe", they are mistaken. That kind of thinking will allow a climber to put themselves in a dangerous situation. Better to position the lanyard and the climber where there is no chance of cutting anything except the tree.
How many climbers use a double tie in system when using a chainsaw? Maybe only when taking down the spar? For years I just used a lanyard when chunking down the spar but realized that I would be in a bad spot if I ever needed to descend, or cut my lanyard. Now, I ALWAYS have to connections when using a chainsaw. Even for pruning. Now that the ANSi Z133.1-2000 are in effect, this is what is required. I expect the same amount of compliance with this regulation as the ancient reg about wearing a helmet and safety glasses. The arguements for not double tieing will be the same as for not wearing helmets and glasses too.
Strong limbs and snug ropes!
Tom
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
When chunking I use an old rope on a splitail as my second lanyard. Low with a full wrap. Then when I can drop the rest I can rapell down.
Even on simple ones I will tie into another tree if possible. It is not much effort, and good redundancy.
Even on simple ones I will tie into another tree if possible. It is not much effort, and good redundancy.
Chain Gang
ArboristSite Lurker
Georgia,
I think flip lines are easy to use while climbing a removal. But I really agree with Tom and John about having a second tie-in. I started using a wrapped split-tail line along with my lanyard while cutting the top during removals. It became such a habit that I automatically use a backup line whenever I run the saw. Let your gaffs slip when a large top falls and you'll see how nice a full wrap backup can be!
Do it Safe!
I think flip lines are easy to use while climbing a removal. But I really agree with Tom and John about having a second tie-in. I started using a wrapped split-tail line along with my lanyard while cutting the top during removals. It became such a habit that I automatically use a backup line whenever I run the saw. Let your gaffs slip when a large top falls and you'll see how nice a full wrap backup can be!
Do it Safe!
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
>>Let your gaffs slip when a large top falls and
>>you'll see how nice a full wrap backup can be!
Is that experiance or imagination talking?
>>you'll see how nice a full wrap backup can be!
Is that experiance or imagination talking?
Chain Gang
ArboristSite Lurker
I, ah, should probably plead the fifth!
When I first started working in trees, I was doing a removal of a tall, very thin pine. Like most of them in NC, all of the weight and branches are in the last ten feet of the tree at the top. I was in a hurry to put it on the ground and probably didn't climb as far up as I should have. When the top leaned over, the stem bowed WAY back. Then, when it dropped, the stem threw me into the air. Fortunately, my lanyard caught on an old branch collar and stopped about ten feet down the tree. The strangest part was hearing a sound and after what seemed like a few minutes, realized my saw was idling peacefully at the end of it's lanyard hanging below me.
It is amazing how lucky young people are when the screw up. If I did the same thing now, there is no telling what would happen to me!
IF you live, you DEFINITELY learn!
When I first started working in trees, I was doing a removal of a tall, very thin pine. Like most of them in NC, all of the weight and branches are in the last ten feet of the tree at the top. I was in a hurry to put it on the ground and probably didn't climb as far up as I should have. When the top leaned over, the stem bowed WAY back. Then, when it dropped, the stem threw me into the air. Fortunately, my lanyard caught on an old branch collar and stopped about ten feet down the tree. The strangest part was hearing a sound and after what seemed like a few minutes, realized my saw was idling peacefully at the end of it's lanyard hanging below me.
It is amazing how lucky young people are when the screw up. If I did the same thing now, there is no telling what would happen to me!
IF you live, you DEFINITELY learn!
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
My first big removal was when I was a youngun in the USMC. A captain I knew had a buddy who needed a tree dropped. Carolina pine. (give you an idea how youg, it was the first time I was refered to as Mr. Sanborn 
).
After 15 ft the thing was so punky that my gaffs subk in and were hard to pull out! At wht seemed lke 60-70 ft I decided to take the top out and knotched towards the slight lean. Didn't know about climbing with wedges. well the center was so bad that there was nothing to hold it and a vagrent breeze blue it backwards and nearly took out a few Taxus. Nearly peed myself, I had just started my back cut. not a scratch (well on my forarms,...) on me, but I did learn I didn't know **** then. Now I do (know ****, that is).
).After 15 ft the thing was so punky that my gaffs subk in and were hard to pull out! At wht seemed lke 60-70 ft I decided to take the top out and knotched towards the slight lean. Didn't know about climbing with wedges. well the center was so bad that there was nothing to hold it and a vagrent breeze blue it backwards and nearly took out a few Taxus. Nearly peed myself, I had just started my back cut. not a scratch (well on my forarms,...) on me, but I did learn I didn't know **** then. Now I do (know ****, that is).
monkeypuzzle
ArboristSite Guru
Climbed with pole gaffs for years,never had any problem,even in dead wood.The Bashlins I use now seem to be in between the pole and tree gaffs.The long offset gaffs are just awfull to me,too much spike,can't walk in them.How does a rooster walk?
treeclimber165
Member A.K.A Skwerl
offset gaffs
I used the offset gaffs my last 8 years climbing and never had any problem with them. "how do you walk in them?" The answer is - You don't! With any tree gaffs, not short like pole gaffs, it only takes one or two steps to hit a buried rock in the dirt and then you gotta spend 5 minutes filing them. Would you stick your chainsaw bar in the dirt? Would you bury your lifeline in the dirt? If not, then why would you treat your gaffs any differently?
I used the offset gaffs my last 8 years climbing and never had any problem with them. "how do you walk in them?" The answer is - You don't! With any tree gaffs, not short like pole gaffs, it only takes one or two steps to hit a buried rock in the dirt and then you gotta spend 5 minutes filing them. Would you stick your chainsaw bar in the dirt? Would you bury your lifeline in the dirt? If not, then why would you treat your gaffs any differently?
Shespen
ArboristSite Member
Flip Lines
Tom Dunlap's post is right on the money. You can easily saw through that steel core flip line. I,ve seen it done. A fellow climber of mine had his on top of a stob on the back side and didn't notice. Lucky for him he had his climbing line on a split tail and was using it for his second flip line. He said that it wasn't much different than sawing through a nail. Now he always checks the backside, always uses two fliplines and packs a second pair of underwear.
The purpose of the steel core is to give the line ridgidity so it will flip. This is really noticeable when you get into trees over forty inches in diameter. It was invented to take the place of a flip chain.
I suggest you use a 5/8" X 8' with a Gibbs ascender as your adjuster. Once you learn the technique of one handed adjustment to tighten and loosen the flip line you will never go back to the prusik. A note on the Gibbs. It's weak spot is the screw that holds the spring in place on the side of the aluminum. It doesnt last long. Most of us replace it with a cotter pin around the spring and pounded in the hole where the screw goes. Another tip is the flip line has a thimbled loop on the back. I stick a key chain sized 'biner on that and drll a hole into the hook side of my pole saw just big enough to put that small 'biner through it. This is a good place to hang the pole saw and it keeps it below you.(Ever hang your saw above you and accidentally knock it out and have it rake across your shoulder-arm-neck?)
I just thought of something else to worry you. When they first started making these flip lines they had a problem and amajor recall happening due to the steel breaking from fatigue inside the rope just in front of the rope clamp where you couldn't see it without peeling the rope back. They have solved this problem but I check it out of nervousness every so often. It is also the reason Why I don't try to make my own flip lines. There is alot more to it than meets the eye.
Keep climbing, have fun, but notice everything!
Tom Dunlap's post is right on the money. You can easily saw through that steel core flip line. I,ve seen it done. A fellow climber of mine had his on top of a stob on the back side and didn't notice. Lucky for him he had his climbing line on a split tail and was using it for his second flip line. He said that it wasn't much different than sawing through a nail. Now he always checks the backside, always uses two fliplines and packs a second pair of underwear.
The purpose of the steel core is to give the line ridgidity so it will flip. This is really noticeable when you get into trees over forty inches in diameter. It was invented to take the place of a flip chain.
I suggest you use a 5/8" X 8' with a Gibbs ascender as your adjuster. Once you learn the technique of one handed adjustment to tighten and loosen the flip line you will never go back to the prusik. A note on the Gibbs. It's weak spot is the screw that holds the spring in place on the side of the aluminum. It doesnt last long. Most of us replace it with a cotter pin around the spring and pounded in the hole where the screw goes. Another tip is the flip line has a thimbled loop on the back. I stick a key chain sized 'biner on that and drll a hole into the hook side of my pole saw just big enough to put that small 'biner through it. This is a good place to hang the pole saw and it keeps it below you.(Ever hang your saw above you and accidentally knock it out and have it rake across your shoulder-arm-neck?)
I just thought of something else to worry you.
When they first started making these flip lines they had a problem and amajor recall happening due to the steel breaking from fatigue inside the rope just in front of the rope clamp where you couldn't see it without peeling the rope back. They have solved this problem but I check it out of nervousness every so often. It is also the reason Why I don't try to make my own flip lines. There is alot more to it than meets the eye.Keep climbing, have fun, but notice everything!
monkeypuzzle
ArboristSite Guru
Who says you can't walk in them?Plus,I bought 'em,end of story.I have NEVER filed my gaffs,not once,and have had not one problem because of this.Don't believe everything you READ from a book.Just like Shespen said,"notice everything"being aware is what I am best at.Climbers are a dime a dozen,and I only climb now because I have not found ONE that does'nt scare the HELL out of me.
monkeypuzzle
ArboristSite Guru
One more thing.If any of you steel core flip line users need proof to the fact that a chainsaw WILL cut through it,do you own test,the steel cable is cheap at a hardware store,and surly there is an old chainsaw in the shop,give it a wack and see just what it takes to cut it.FAITH will only let you down in the end.
Mike Starner
ArboristSite Lurker
I don't think people are trained to climb with hooks as well as they are trained to climb ON ROPE. Climbing on hooks takes alot of practice and confidence. I have seen alot of climbers put em on and head up the tree with no attention being paid to their form. Short steps, with your legs out like a cowboy, and lay back on your lanyard so you are not standing strait up, that's the way to do it!
I don't like any of the new hooks, they aren't very rigid and vibrate alot. I'll stick with Buckingham tree spurs.
PS I need one of those catchy one liners that everyone signs off with.Until then BYE!
I don't like any of the new hooks, they aren't very rigid and vibrate alot. I'll stick with Buckingham tree spurs.
PS I need one of those catchy one liners that everyone signs off with.Until then BYE!
imagineero
Addicted to ArboristSite
I don't know about all this steel core flipline stuff you guys are talking about, is this some kind of new technology? I'm still climbing on 3 strand hemp which I grow myself. Just kidding! You guys who read through this one and checked the date stamp will see how old this thread is!
People seem to be pulling posts up from way back when, so I thought I'd revive the first ever post in commercial tree care and climbing. Dating from 2001, a few of the guys that posted in this first thread are still around AS! I'll raise my glass to you all as the countdown starts, we got a couple hours to go in aus. I've cooked dinner for everyone, music's playing and glasses are being drained. Enjoy the night everyone, hope the new year brings you plenty of work ;-)
Shaun
People seem to be pulling posts up from way back when, so I thought I'd revive the first ever post in commercial tree care and climbing. Dating from 2001, a few of the guys that posted in this first thread are still around AS! I'll raise my glass to you all as the countdown starts, we got a couple hours to go in aus. I've cooked dinner for everyone, music's playing and glasses are being drained. Enjoy the night everyone, hope the new year brings you plenty of work ;-)
Shaun
