Self belay prusik on SRT

[Tree Machine]

I know.

Daniel Murphy has produced another written article in the June TCIA. He made the cover again with an article on the finer points of SRT Click here for an 8.9 meg pdf download of June '06's entire TCIA issue (84 pages) Daniel's article starts on page 10.

Daniel was real clear in showing how he backs up his ascender, right on the front page.

 

[trevmcrev]

I know.

Daniel Murphy has produced another written article in the June TCIA. He made the cover again with an article on the finer points of SRT Click here for an 8.9 meg pdf download of June '06's entire TCIA issue (84 pages) Daniel's article starts on page 10.

Daniel was real clear in showing how he backs up his ascender, right on the front page.

Awesome, thanks TM. I only got my Feb issue yesterday, being on the othe side of the world 'n all.

Trev

 

[Tree Machine]

Hey TreeCo, Are these the titanium, adjustable-handle ascenders? These cats have the schweet hardware. I personally haven't tried any of their stuff, but I drool. I have too many ascenders to warrant buying another ascender, even if it's cooler than all the others. All of these devices do exactly the same thing: one-way trip up a rope.


Note on that link, the Titanium rap ring. Great little SRT device there for a mere 5 bucks.

 

[woodchux]

Thanks for the link TM .
I've gotta try that "Hogwauler" at the bottom of the page.
Looks very interesting.

 

[Tree Machine]

Interesting, yes. Note, though, that it maxes out with a 12 mm rope.

A Petzl Pro Traxion will do the same thing (one-way camming pulley) for around half the price, and surprisingly it is lighter by 15 grams. It'll take a full 13mm also.

I've had a couple Pro Traxions over the years and can speak that it is an excellent piece.

I wouldn't steer ya wrong, WoodChux.

 

[woodchux]

On that Mark Bridge system that Dan posted a pic of. What would be the purpose of the Alpine butterfly? To tie off for work positioning?

 

[Tree Machine]

If the Kleimheist were to slip down, the butterfly would be the stopper knot.

Not sure how that interesting setup made it into an SRT thread. To me, it shows how to make an already slow 2:1 DdRT system even more complicated. I try to see how the access line can be set and retrieved from the ground and I don't get it. If you have to climb to the tie-in point to set the bugger, why not just set a rated sling and a pulley and go off that?

Regardless, we try out experimental systems because we might find them advantageous to work from, or that system may lead to something even more unique and beneficial.

 

[Tree Machine]

Oops, Dan beat me to the reply.

 

[woodchux]

Does the kleimheist bind down bad on srt like the other hitches do ?

What is the best (non binding) hitch to use on srt?

 

[Tree Machine]

Does the kleimheist bind down bad on srt like the other hitches do ?

Yes, it does and in this case is supposed to. If the hitch slipped, the 1:1 pull of the Kleimheist on the access line would stop as soon as it travelled to a point where the butterfly leg would support up to 1/2 the weight. The Kleimheist would travel no further.

It might be noted that the webbing sling should be of the 1/2" width (125 mm). This sets and binds better than 1" (2.54 cm) webbing.

What is the best (non binding) hitch to use on srt?

SRT is a 1:1 system. Managing friction in a 100% absolute and controlled manner with a tiny input of effort, repeatedly, consistently and without fail every single time, regardless of rope type or weather conditions, regardless of climber weight or saddle type, "THE" friction hitch has not been shown to even exist.


There are hitches that will work, probably your best bet would be Rocky J. Squirrell's self-tending setup, the Valdetoin Tresse (VT). It takes minimal tuning as the legs are short and the whole rig compact. It takes a tress cord of a specific length, with dual eyes and you'll need a micropulley. Here's that.

 

[Tree Machine]

I wonder if two prussiks would work, a long one above and a short one below the other, each sharing a share of the load and each requiring 1/2 of the binding clench.


I would have to think that's been tried, although mebbe not. I would use two tress cords, one longer than the other. Even up all 4 eyes and run a single biner through them. Who knows? It might work and amazingly we could consider this to be on-topic.

 

[Tree Machine]

Then we could try a pair of 4:1 distels, a 4:1 over a 3:1, VT over a Kleimheist, Blake's over a 3-wrap Prussik, Distel on VT .... the possibilities are staggering. I would still want the system to manage friction in a 100% absolute and controlled manner with a tiny input of effort, repeatedly, consistently and without fail every single time, regardless of rope type or weather conditions, regardless of climber weight or saddle type, and at least another half a dozen 'musts'.

Or just do like the rest of the vertical access world (outside the tree care industry anyway) does: use a device.

 

[Tree Machine]

On the way going up on srt you can move right into Dbrt and do a little work and then right back into srt for the rest of the way up.

Plus you don't need to go all the way to the top to start working Dbrt.

Does this mean you access the canopy from your access line and switch over to the climbing line? To be SRT you would have to be on one of the two parallel, vertical strands of the access line and I can't see why you wouldn't just go up both (DbRT). Switching between DbRT and DdRT or between SRT and DdRT would seem to require swiching ropes. Or am I missing something? Would you have both systems rigged to your saddle, climbing one and tending slack on the other?

 

[sawn_penn]

Take a look at this srt/Dbrt system. Photo from Dave Spencer.

Does anyone actually use ascenders with "cool" handles like this?

I can't imagine that they would work well. Even the regular handled ascenders aren't great. Unless you are wearing heavy gloves (eg, mountaineering) most users end up holding the top of an ascender anyway. If you don't use the handle, then probably a petzl basic is all you need for a top ascender.


(Although petzl ascenders are my choice for personal ascenders, I acknowledge that they are not the best at handling shock and rescue loads. They are the best on icy/muddy ropes though!)

 

[coydog]

I wonder if two prussiks would work, a long one above and a short one below the other, each sharing a share of the load and each requiring 1/2 of the binding clench.


I would have to think that's been tried, although mebbe not. I would use two tress cords, one longer than the other. Even up all 4 eyes and run a single biner through them. Who knows? It might work and amazingly we could consider this to be on-topic.

The trick would be to keep the hitches from either acting one at a time and compounding the friction problem or the top hitch causing the bottom hitch to let go completely when it runs into it and negating the friction completely.

 

[woodchux]

Is the butterfly knot tied only on one leg of the access line?

[sorry for all the stupid questions guys]

 

[woodchux]

Seems like that system would work on DbRT or SRT

 

[woodchux]

What do you guys think of combining those two systems into 1 ?

 

[Tree Machine]

Nice, Mr. Chux.

 

[Tree Machine]

it's really nice to see more and more guys diversifying and trying out new techniques.

Well, there we have it.... digital, virtual climbing gear techniques.