Septic system for heavily wooded lot

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tjmcols

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We have purchased some acreage with some of the largest trees in the area except for a notable state park an hour away. We would like to build a small home amongst the trees. We're now convinced that an arborist is needed to help us minimize damages to the trees.

Right now, we are trying to figure out what type of septic system would do the least damage. We were approved for a leach bed but cannot stomach taking out 1/6 acre of these beautiful trees. We have some cherry that is showing insect damage and many ash (ash borer is now in Ohio). We thought that a few of these could be sacraficed for placing a septic system.

Any recommendations?
 
You might want to look into this kind of leach field:

http://www.thenaturalhome.com/infiltrator.htm

They can be smaller than a conventional leach field, and don't necessarily have to be routed in a straight line. I can't find the site right now, but in researching these, I've seen a field that had several lines snaking in and around trees.
 
Yeah, I saw these in a new subdivision being built. The homeowner had put 3 of these big pipes right in the front yard.
 
You need one of those systems that filters the water, treats it with bleach tablets and then sprays it on top of the ground. If you cut trees to put in a system you will regret it.
 
I've had one of those infiltrator systems installed before, and have not had any problems with it so far. The drainfield takes up about 2/3 ths space of a gravel and pipe system. I don't know about using these in wooded areas though .I doubt if trees nearby is a good idea.[mine is in the open area]
 
Effluent Vs trees

The septic system run off will eventually raise havoc on your trees if the tree roots are near the toe of the system. Everything you put into your drains, toilets, washing machine and dishwasher goes through the septic system unless you have that separates gray water like I do. I do believe the gray water does more damage to the trees that the "other stuff " . The soaps, fats, and and cleaners tend to be acidic. Just drive around and look at the lay of some of these house sites and go back in a couple of years. The constant saturation of the ground in less than perfect drainage gets those trees every time.
I do like that new system. Should I ever have to upgrade that will be my first choice.
 
You do have to put some thought and care into what you put down your drains if you want your septic system and landscaping to be happy for the long haul. Just using any old soap or detergent doesn't cut it. You need to do some research and probably pay a bit more for products that are easier on the environment.

I'm not hawking any particular brand - there are plenty of good choices. I'm just saying that WalMart brand or whatever Lever Brothers is putting out these days is not what you want to use.
 
imo,forget the leech bed route. I was told 900' of leechbed, or an aerator system. mine quietly blows bubbles into the tank, (no big motor driven shaft like the old days, that you have to pull out and clean -yuk) and has a chlorinaor on it too. empties into a small runnoff drain (in Ohio, the output MUST flow out onto your property) call your county guy back, and the septic co too. my aerator system cost the same as the leech bed would have . mine was $2400. 1500 gal tank, aerator, chlorinator, and aprox 200' of 4" sch 40 line installed.
all I'm sayin' is that there are better options you might look at before you decide.
-Ralph
 
So you've got chlorinated effluent running into an open ditch? Any pointers on where to learn more about such a system?
 
BlueRidgeMark said:
So you've got chlorinated effluent running into an open ditch? Any pointers on where to learn more about such a system?
effluent?
that doesn't make it past the first camber of the tank.
the output is water, (according to county guy, 99.6%pure) the aerator just speeds up the process, like turning mulch, and no, I'm not going to try drinking it. the small creek still has chubs and crayish and frogs, so it must not be all bad, but....
the output is water, through a leech bed to soak into the soil of your property. the ground here doesn't soak up water well, hence the 900' requirement.

compred to what else goes into the tank, showers, sinks, tubs, washer, dish washer, ect, how much is actual effluent? 5% maybe?

I'm not up on all of it myself, just know what the county agent who inspected the system and passed it said, so I really can't be of much help with the particulars.
-Ralph
 
Interesting

Could you give me the technical name for this system? I'm not being a smart A_s_s but in my area the best solutions (per our Co. agents) always seem to be the most expensive. An evapotransporation system going in @ a tune of $13,000. What amazes me is that all these plans are on record at our Health Department but you need to go through the Engineer design route time and time again when you are building regardless of what system your neighbor has. That soil was laid down eons ago. It hasn't changed in my neck of the woods.
What I meant to say before that one system handling your gray water and the other your septic could be a better choice. And, your soap does make a difference. Ask any guy who pumps tanks out. That chlorine that you put into your system evaporates when exposed to air. It does however leave a salt.
 
NOMOREGEARS said:
What amazes me is that all these plans are on record at our Health Department but you need to go through the Engineer design route time and time again when you are building regardless of what system your neighbor has. That soil was laid down eons ago. It hasn't changed in my neck of the woods.

I hear you! Methinks there's a bit of a buddy system going on with the Health department and the septic industry.


NOMOREGEARS said:
What I meant to say before that one system handling your gray water and the other your septic could be a better choice.

I suspect so, but I've been told it's VERY difficult to get such a system approved. That probably varies with locality, though.
 
speaking from experience

We went through the same thing last year. We did not have the option of going with some of the experimental systems that are currently on the market, as our health department wouldn't approve such systems. We ended up going with a typical mound system which did minimize the space we needed to tear up.

Our lot was actually on a north facing slope. What the engineers did is build the mound into the slope, in an area that was nothing but dying sumac. You wouldn't even know there is a septic system where ours is right now. The septic field is surrounded by woods, and for our size house it was a 60x40 foot area. The mound system is very environmentally friendly. You usually have two tanks and a filter between them, so that what goes to the septic field is more filtered than with a typical system. The mound includes a lot of gravel and sand on top of the regular soil, and all of that filters a great deal out before any water from the septic reaches the existing soil. We were told that you could actually plant small trees on the mound (i.e. we had several people tell us that we could have trees the size of the small sumacs we lost on the mound). We did not risk that, as the expense of replacing the system doesn't seem worth the risk. We ended up planting the mound with native grasses, partridge pea, and native wildflowers.

The first summer was rough because the work didn't finish until July. It was very difficult to get things to grow that first year. This year the whole mound is completely overgrown with purple coneflower, bee balm, partridge pea, cosmos, wild bergamot, black-eyed susans, and much more that I'm sure I'm forgetting. We have deer that sleep there every night, tons of rabbits, and a wide variety of birds that take advantage of all the seeds (including tons of hummingbirds. So I guess my point is that you can make the best of it. We love the space and we feel it's as beneficial now for wildlife as it was before we had to have the work done. Also, because the mound was put back in the woods a way (a pump moves the water from the tanks to the mound), we are one of the only houses in our area that can actually have big trees around the house. Almost everyone else has to have a huge expanse of grass in their front or backyard for a septic field. Additionally, everyone's septic field in our neighborhood has faild and they just don't care. People think a nasty septic smell all summer is just normal! We have lots of clay, and many places where there just isn't much soil, and traditional septic systems just don't work, let alone ones that are 40 years old.

Anyway, we've been very happy with our system. Our contractor was terrible, but they only charged $7000. Believe me, we paid a lot more for that low price though. Our contractor constantly put off doing the work, with every excuse under the sun. They tore up a lot of the yard, getting to where they had to do the work, and never fulfilled half the promises they made (reseeding the mound, reseeding the yard, taking three days to do the job, etc), and we had to constantly bring in the county health department to keep them from cutting corners. As an example, they didn't want to put in a drainage pipe at the bottom of our mound, which is required in our state. They tried to skip installing the filter, which was in our quote, and only did so after I caught that it wasn't installed. We really had to watch them every step of the way. In hindsight, I probably would have paid several thousand more to get a better contractor, but from what I've heard, there are a lot of bad ones, and paying more doesn't guarantee you are going to get any better work.

Oh, and one more note, we do have trees right up to the border of our mound. They had to tear up a slightly bigger area than the mound, so they could work around it. We planted all that area last year. We have white pines, pin oak, swamp white oak, and bald cypress all fairly close to the mound. There is actually only one large main pipe in our septic field, and that pipe is wrapped in fabric so roots can't easil clog the system. That whole setup is laid in gravel and sand, so even with trees nearby, there's less chance of problems than with a typical system.

I have before and after pictures if you are interested, and I'd be happy to answer any other questions you have. It was a real nightmare having the work done, and seeing how much was torn up, but after a year, we really feel like we made the right decision and have a system that will work well for as long as we have the house. My advice though is that whatever you do, ask a ton of questions, work very closely with your health department, make sure you get everything in writing, and make sure you are there to supervise!
 
A more basic system

I was out in the midwest about 10 years ago and saw this septic systems that was nothing more than lagoons with cattails. Cattails being the ultimate filter/ decomposer. Looking at my pond, I think I'm half way there. :hmm3grin2orange:
 
BlueRidgeMark said:
You might want to look into this kind of leach field:

http://www.thenaturalhome.com/infiltrator.htm

They can be smaller than a conventional leach field, and don't necessarily have to be routed in a straight line. I can't find the site right now, but in researching these, I've seen a field that had several lines snaking in and around trees.

Now that is slick!
 
Well seeing all the banned and deleted members already, I am about scared to post any more but that never stopped me before.

I used to pump tanks and install old type systems and many with a group of mountain boys and picks and mattocks and shouvels was our equipment and back hoe are only a convience if you have some motivation and man power.

Septic systems like some of the ones spoken of here are complex but the others are really simple and anyone can do them. The newer systems under many names is all that a dozen contrators around here install anymore at all. They can put them in half the time and expense and excuvated area. I think some googling and or calling of contractors outside the area you wish to work on may help you. A small consulting fee or a free bit of advice would take you far and you can explain things on the phone a lot easier than in person.

The guide lines of acceptable systems and variences etc is all free public infor at the local health dept and finally and far most a relationship with the inspector can be priceless.

Hope that helps and know it was not real specific but then your situation is not real specific and I think you need to talk to some folks on the phone or get them out in person after you learn what is possible in he regs at the health dept.

Charlie
 
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