Shaver Improvement Forum Part 3

[wctech]

Thanks for the reply, I did give some thought about the 1 inch pex being too small, but I still can't understand that even with maximum heat loss trough the radiators the water is still about as cold as the water from my well when I fill the boiler weekly, which I do not see a heat loss when doing. Would a 009 be a better pump for that distance, or maybe it won't make a difference because of the diameter of the pipe? Also I would have thought that a slow flow would be less of a shock to the boiler than the water returning to the boiler faster? Just a thought. I also thought about jacking the thermostat up to about 60, but really don't want to waste more wood.

 

[headleyj]

Thanks for the reply, I did give some thought about the 1 inch pex being too small, but I still can't understand that even with maximum heat loss trough the radiators the water is still about as cold as the water from my well when I fill the boiler weekly, which I do not see a heat loss when doing. Would a 009 be a better pump for that distance, or maybe it won't make a difference because of the diameter of the pipe? Also I would have thought that a slow flow would be less of a shock to the boiler than the water returning to the boiler faster? Just a thought. I also thought about jacking the thermostat up to about 60, but really don't want to waste more wood.

oh I don't think the 1" pex is to small by any means, it absoluitely has more heat carrying capacity than 1/2 oir 3/4 (obviously)....guess I don't understand what you're saying here ..."even with maximum heat loss trough the radiators the water is still about as cold as the water from my well when I fill the boiler weekly, which I do not see a heat loss when doing"

can you try to clarify?

 

[ngzcaz]

Chances are you won't have a drop in water temp when adding a few gallons of tap water to your 235 gallon tank. If I had my old physics book one
could calculate the drop. The ten gallons from the radiators ( if somewhere around 40 degrees ) might drop it a bit. On my shaver I put an inline temp gauge about an inch in diameter. Tells you the temp coming out of your unit anytime you check it. You might be able to fit one one of the the rads and get a true temp. I agree that the 007 might be working up a sweat for that distance. What water temp do you keep in the boiler ?

I wouldn't worry about a couple of gallons of 40 degree water coming in the OWB hurting the system. Should be able to take that easily and keep on ticking.

 

[scag52]

Is it level ground ? Might need a oo11 for that run.

 

[ngzcaz]

I checked out the ACME site ( makes me think of the old Wile E. Coyote cartoons ) It certainly is a Shaver clone. I wonder if they incorporated some of the very worthwhile ideas our members had in the previous forums. One thing I did note was that while they boasted of a 3/8 inch firebox, it was only a 10 gauge water jacket which translates to .135 inch slightly, thicker than 1/8 but well short of the 1/4 inch on the Shavers. BUT, they did put insulation ( which looks very much like a solarguard clone ) on the bottom as well as the sides and top. The ash door looks like a pan could actually be inserted and taken out to minimize the mess. The curved lip on my Shaver ash door still has me scratching my head as to why they did it.

Anyway, good luck with the unit. Most all Shaver owners agree they do work as advertised.

:monkey:

 

[Alan Smith]

carport

So far, so good!

My dryer vent/blower mod still working great! :biggrinbounce2:

About the only thing I did this year was pack the firebox door with fresh insulation.

Oh, one other thing, I got a carport butted up against the Shaver and have my wood stacked under it.

Looking great

 

[Windwalker7]

Thanks Alan!


I got the idea from you. Saw a pic on another post of your carport.

I tried to figure away to put my wood and the burner under the car port without using up valuable space, then i saw your pic.

I immediately thought, "Why didn't I think of that?"

 

[Windwalker7]

I have a Acme (Shaver Clone) 235 gallon owb. I have mine installed in an old corn crib, 2 years now. I have went through the chimney issues with plugging up with creosote, finally gave up and just let it smoke inside the corn crib. I am thinking about just running some type of duct, and an exaust fan, not sure yet. I am going to install dryer vent mod this week, great idea! Question: I heat an out building about 150 feet away from the boiler. I have 1 inch insulated pex running to cast iron radiators, in series, then back to the boiler. I have a 007 taco pushing the water. Thermostat set just above freezing 40 degrees or so. Problem is, I see a 35 degree temp loss in the water whenever the stat kicks on for the building. There is only 3 radiators there, maybe 10 gallons total cold water returning, at 40 degrees. It takes a very long time to get the temp back up to 180. Would 2 pumps help? Funny thing, when I fill the boiler with water once a week from the tap, going in the return line, I get very little or no drop in temp, and I think I am adding about the same amount of cold water. Any ideas? One of the best modifications I added to my boiler is a cast iron sewer cover instead of the factory grate, 20 bucks at the junk yard. Also id the fact that a little smoke leaking out of the door gasket make a huge difference? The creosote someties pulls the gasket off when opening the door.

I think your pump is too small. I have a run of 133' from OWB to HX, through 1"pex. I have a Taco 011 pushing the water.



As for your question comparing heat loss between the T-stat kicking on for the building and when adding water to the boiler.




When your T-stat kicks on, you are pouring colder water in the OWB continually for as long as the T-stat calls for heat.

When you are adding cold water to refill, you are just adding it once, quickly for a short period and that's it.

That is why the OWB has a harder time recovering.

 

[Windwalker7]

This may help with the chimney/creosote issue.

Its a little expensive but I have zero issues with my chimney plugging up.


I slid this over the existing chimney pipe

http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/(a...ctDetails.aspx?SKU=45065&&SessionExpired=True

I had to use pliers to straighten the crimp a little to get it to slide over the pipe.

I can actually touch it when the furnce is fire up. It insulate the chimney to prevent creosote from forming as much.

You will need to seal the small gap around the top of the two pipes. I stuffed some rope gasket in there and squirted some Hi-temp silicone in there too.

The hardest part is cutting the hole a little bigger in the roof so it will slide down. I used a jigsaw.

tip- wear ear plugs if you cut. It is loud.

 

[ngzcaz]

That was one of the more labor intensive but well worthwhile investment. It probably eliminated the condensation that some were concerned about.

Good one..

 

[Windwalker7]

Someone else had the idea first. I forget who it was, Fletcher, I think!

He even provided the link to the actual pipe.

 

[wctech]

Sorry for the delay, was out of town. Ok, some clarifications. The water temp coming into the house from the boiler is set at 176 degrees. This is coming about 50 feet to the hx, which is heating a pressurized system for the radiators. Then it goes back to the boiler. My thermometer is strapped to the supply side in my basement, and I have a taylor remote display ($20.00) at grainger in my bedroom to monitor the temp. I have a honeywell aquastat, but am contemplating switching to the digital one you all seem to favor. The outbuilding is 150 feet one way from the boiler, It is insulated fairly well. This seems to be a problem with the temp dropping so much, and taking so long to recover. The pipe is buried 4 feet double insulated and in 4 inch plastic drain tile. I thought about just adding a second pump on the return side, but I guess this is where I m confused. I thought that the slower the water came back to the boiler, the less shock it would have, gradually being heated instead of the water mixing quickly. I am just keeping the building around 40 degrees, for the water pipes. When adding water from the well, I would think I am getting about the same amount then what the radiators are sending back to the boiler, or awful close. When the building pump kicks on can watch the thermometer drop like a stone, but when I fill, no loss, or very little. This seems to happen in about a 10 min span.( I am thinking the initial cold water return) I only have 3 radiators in the building and I doubt they hold 15 gallons, but I could be wrong. When I fill, which I do slowly, because I do not want any sediment on the bottom to be stirred up. (When I fill too quickly the sediment plugs my hx and I have to back flush it.) The building is on below the boiler so the pump does have to travel a bit uphill. I am satisfied with the unit, but if I had to do over would not have put it inside. The chimney creostote thing has diven me nuts. I live in a very windy location, which also adds to chimney problems. I have blown fan motors more than once, with the wind pushing down the stack, when the furnace was on idle, burning the motors out, besides melting the pex on the supply side. I have installed a special vent cap that does work, but it gets gummed up in a month or so. I then installed a in stack fan, which also worked, but when the boiler was on idle it too would get gummed up. If I let it run, even on slow, I would blow through the wood very quickly, even with the bottom fan off. I do burn mostly dry wood, very little green. Hope this explains a little more about my unit. Thanks again for the help.

 

[scag52]

You could try a 3 speed pump so you could try different speeds. Still think the 007 is too small. Try adding a y strainer in front of the HX. to catch the sediment.Could you re-route the return line to the top of the furnace?

 

[wctech]

I could try the 3 speed pump, and I do have a y strainer on the pipe before the hx. The sediment must be real small, almost like a powder, but large enough to clog the smallholes in the hx. Thats no big deal though, I just installed boiler drains in the supply and return lines and use a pump to back flush with vinegar. I do this at start up in the fall, and it is fine for the rest of the year. I could switch the return to the top, but not sure what the benefit would be. I understand that the heat loss over an hour or so would make the temp drop, but I guess the drop in such a short time is what confuses me.

 

[scag52]

Have you tried running your pump 24/7 ? Is your water treated ?

 

[wctech]

The water to the house runs 24/7 if I ran the constant to the other building, I think I would use way too much wood.

 

[scag52]

Well could you move the return to the top of the furnace ? Maybe it would help.

 

[Muggsy71]

Anyone still following this thread? I read the whole shaver improvement thread and got some great ideas but at the moment i am getting ready to do some minor repairs to this shaver I have. I bought a house last year that had one installed in 2011 or twelve. I'm not sure what model it is ( how many gallons). I am going to buy chemicals for it but don't know how much. Is there any way to tell what model it is(a nameplate somewhere)? On the front it has 8-11-3310 welded next to shaver logo. Not one hundred pretty sure what exactly these numbers mean. August 2011 but not sure about 3310.
Anyway, getting ready to paint the top of tje water jacket, it was rusted really bad from a leak around chimney and wet insulation. Gonna strip the sides off and check rest of it also. The DHW cover in the back is in really bad shape, going to do something different there.
Anyhow, just wondering if the people on this and the original thread were still using their shavers?