Short bars big saws

[NORMZILLA44]

What is the deal with all of these bigger saws running 18 or 20" bars? Seems dangerous to me. I read about someone cutting their leg a 372 with an 18" bar things happen alot faster, more kickback, lot of power for a little bar. I always thought 18 or 20" bars for smaller backup or small firewod saw. I was just wondering is it a macho thing? Plus any decent size saw you want real dogs you lose a couple inches of cutting length you put even a 20" bar youre not left with much cutting lenghth. Just my opionion but I have a 51 huskie backup, and firewod saw with a 20" bar works great. My 044 runs, a 28" bar with a full skip chisel seems to be a great all aroun lenghth, not to heavy or clumsy, or to long for firewod great for limbing. I run all full skip chains les teeth to file, more chain speed. Some argue that a 3/8 chain and 20" bar are to much for the 51, it works great even in hardwood that full skip makes a big differnce, even on this little saw. I have run my 51 set up this way for 8 years no problems, still going strong. I have cut some big stuff it was my primary saw for a few years, before I could afford another. It just seems like the more powerful saw with smaller bars, leave alot of room for injury. And even the biggest saws buried in big hardwood, can lose chain speed or stall. It just seems like a hot run thing maybe get a 3120, or ms 880 and put a 20" or shorter bar on it if you have to have the fastest.

 

[fishhuntcutwood]

Way to go NORM, you just opened a can of worms! It's been talked about before off and on, but it comes down to the school that says that bigger saws will cut like crazy with a short bar, and they will. And that's the best way to have a saw perform. And the school that says if a 440 will pull a 28" bar, and you need to use a 28" bar, use a 28" bar. Alot of it too is opinion on performance and the type of wood the saw is run in. I've got a 361 with a 24" bar, and it runs great. Never bogs, never slows, and cuts all the wood I want it to. Then there's guys that run 16" and 18" bars on the same saw, and that's all the bar they want to put on there. I'm not saying I think everyone should run the largest bar their saw can handle just because they can. I've got a 460 that I run a 24" on alot of the time, as that's all I need, but yeah, I've got a 28 and a 32 for it as well. I don't know if a shorter bar is any less safe than a long bar, as a long bar can kickback just as quickly, and it adds the component of having more bar to police, and watch out what it's hitting. There will always be guys that say that a 440 shouldn't have anything longer than a 24" on it, and there's guys that say that the 440 runs well up to a 32. It's preference, the wood they're in (soft vs. hard) how they use it (firewood, timberfalling, racing, yard work, farm saw) and what they're used to. You'll never convince any short bar guy that a long bar is OK anymore than you'll convince a long bar West Coast timberfaller that a 460 should run anything less than a 28".

Run what you want.

Jeff

 

[Phoenix]

This issue has been brought up several times. Do a search on bar length and you'll get plenty of results. It really seems to come down to an east vs west thing. People cut differantly in the two halves of the U.S.. But actually the short bar is the one that's safer. A long bar will have more leverage to throw the saw back at you in the case of kickback, and there is more bar that you take the chance of bumping into somthing to cause kickback. That's just my $00.02 , I'm nobody to say what's right and wrong.

 

[Lumberjack]

Well, my 088 came with a 21" bar. I now have a woodsman pro 41" bar for it also. Bars are espensive for big saws, that woodsman was 250 bucks after shipping.

As to why, its no more dangerous than a long bar, a long bar kicking back has more leverage on the operator (not that it matters, kickback is more powerful than me). I have the real dogs on my 088. Kickback is always completely preventable. For bucking up a log into movable pieces (by hand) I will use a 20" 088 over a 044 every time. The weight helps there and there is nothing wrong with a high 9 second cut time in 24" hardwood on a working saw, not a hot saw.

Your all about skip chain, I have never ran it, have some loops being spun next monday though... Whats up with you calling a 28" 044 a screamer? A 20" 044 is nice and handy. I need to get an 066 to round out the lineup, it will run 28-36" bars, plus a 24" bar.

This sounds like one of my moot point (to others) arguments.

 

[Lumberjack]

Oh, and I have ran up to 36" on my 044, hell one time the 044 went down and we had to drop and buck a trunk (already climbed out everything else). I put the 36" bar on a 25 year old 031AV. That was one long as hell cut. The notch took 30 min, the backcut around 10.

 

[bwalker]

It depends on what your cutting. A 044 with a 28" bar in eastern hard woods is less than optimal. In western softwoods a 044 my pull a 32" just fine.

 

[NORMZILLA44]

Hard to beat an 066, after running an 088 with 20" bar I guess an o44 might not be much to some, god power for the weight I would say, run full skip you will see a difference, in other countries I am learning they use smaller bars, I was just trying to see aroun hear if it was just a hot rod thing or an actual use. If you want to run an 088 cool I dont have 1400 dollars for a few extra seconds. That is what they sell for aroun here 1600 to. I have used many 066s around here those are very common great saws. Me I just like an all around saw I can use all day without getting tired 066 no problem.

 

[NORMZILLA44]

I run mine in mostly hard wods, pepperwod, tan oak, black walnut madrone, recently eaucalyptus, live oak is pretty tuff too, cant complain, I have cut the same with a 32" also I prefer the 28" god all around little more chain speed. No problems yeah a bigger saw will cut faster, more weight to pack also, pack extra fuel. I cut on steep hilly country hard to keep youre footing. done it with 066 084, and found my 044 alittle easier.

 

[Marky Mark]

How is a smaller bar more dangerous than a long one. I'd love to hear this one.Maybe if more people took some time to learn how to file and run a saw there would be less hot air around here.

 

[NORMZILLA44]

Those are cute little saw what are they used for?

 

[Marky Mark]

Cutting wood.

 

[fwf]

...I was just wondering is it a macho thing?...

Yep, part of it sure is. For the same reason that some folks run around in big SUVs and dual-wheel pickups when their biggest load is the weekly groceries.

But another part of the equation is pure personal preference. Through experimentation, you might find that a particular saw seems to work better with a particular bar, or you like the way it feels with a particular bar.

You don't need a big saw to cut a bunch of 12 pole timber, but it sure might feel good.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[bvaught]

I like to run a bar that will fell and buck the tree I am cutting without having to cut from both sides ( bar length as big as tree diameter). Unless of course I am showing the saw off to my friends, then I put on the biggest bar and chain around, just to show em' ya know.

And then of course girls like bigger bars, which is a good reason to have a big bar around.

 

[Lumberjack]

My 088 new from the dealer, sent to KD and then to you would run 2k. I got mine for 60% of that off the used equipment forum. I was going to get an 066 but then the 088 looked nice, bought it, and it looked even better!

Great saw, for felling trees day in and day out that are 30"+ I think it is prime if your job is to get the most wood on the ground.

Thing is those few seconds per cut add up to weeks over the life of the saw. I like the bar to reach all the way through also, but I have dropped my share of 36" trees with a 28" and a few 5'ers (DBH) with the 36". I have done a few I had to take out a block because the 36" wouldnt reach all the way through and I wasnt high speed enough to the think about reaching in the apex of the notch and getting the middle out that way.

 

[NORMZILLA44]

Cool thats understandible, as far as the 088 I can understand that too, just dindt understan a 20" bar on it but believe me if you need a big bar you need a big saw I understand that, you guys should see some of the Tan oak we clear on my freinds property, ones dying from sudden oak death, they very from 2 foot to six fot across some bigger, but they have not died yet. But I sure could understand wanting a 088 or 084, we have an 084 at work I work for the County road dept, we clear alot of down trees from storms. A driver, and his three dogs were killed when a massive redwod came down on top of his van while he was driving home. We had to bring in our crane for that one, we also called a couple of tree guys who had some 066s, and 088 one had about a 5 or 6 fot bar, and still made two cuts, but I love the 084 we got.

 

[NORMZILLA44]

I think so my 044 is not the fastest saw out ther, but I sure get alot done with it good all around saw, so are others, but I grew up using smaller saw with a 20" bar because we were in high school, and did jobs on the side, and could not afford a big one, even a god firewod saw was not cheap we got alot done with what we had it took more time but we got the job done. All we had for a while was a 034, then I got a 029 the 034 was my freinds. I used my little 51 husky alot.

 

[Lawn Masters]

If I cant make the bar I have cut it, I'll whittle the tree down till I'm through it. an 064 is pretty fast with a 20" bar. for me, I cant see wasting money on a saw I'm only gonna use once, then put away for looks. if I need to cut small stuff, I'll run my Dolmar 120Si on it, for bigger I'll break out the 064 or old Mac/homie to do the job.

 

[NORMZILLA44]

Good ole 064 do the job anyday not much that saw wouldnt handle.

 

[cbfarmall]

Oldsaw,

Have you actually used your 064 yet? I thought you were looking for a crankcase.

And it ought to be more than pretty fast with a 20" bar. My 066 says that a 24" bar is too small, but it does handle exceedingly well.

Chris B.

 

[pbtree]

Yes, but one neat little trick some like to play with is a shorter bar on a larger saw, and running a bigger rim to gain chain speed without bogging down.

A 372 with a 20 inch bar and an 8 tooth runs pretty sweet!