Skill mill..and an awesome wife...

[zopi]

I do so love my wife..she buys me saws, she loads and splits wood like a champ...and she wants nice wide pine board floors in an addition we are planning...so i did a little math and neatly figured out how to make one of those
little Skillmills pay for itself out of that project...used in conjunction with
the CSM I already have i can do all the millwork for the addition myself with no
problem...it will all be early 1800's federal or victorian anyway...so nothing too complicated...no flooring contractor, no finish carpenter, and i don't have to buy
finished lumber, except for the structural stuff...stupid certified lumber..whole damn house is sawmill lumber...oh well..

The point is...wifey was looking over my shoulder while i was watching a swingmill video earlier...and she is sold by the neat little bugger..wish it could be an ASM..but thatsa lotta money...

question is, who has used or has a skillmill? what are the pros and cons?

i am pretty confident in the quality of the machine...peterson makes a good product...

anyhoo...wifey is sitting over here figuring out how to make this happen in time for me to get the wood drying in time to be ready for the addition..


I do so love my wife.

 

[woodshop]

Very cool... didn't know what a skill mill was, googled it and watched the videos.

http://www.skillmill.com/

$4000 plus $450 to get it to your door (EAST coast US)... blades are $115, comes with two. Blades are a little pricey given what they look like on the video, but then that's probably one of those deals where they got ya by the buns since you can't get them anywhere else. Other limitation is if you're not near enough to a 20 amp circuit you need at least a 5000 watt generator, but the cheapo versions of them are under $500. Only thing that would bother me about something that expensive is the ability to only make a 4" slice, which means even if you flip it around and double cut, you can never make more than an 8 inch wide board. You might not ever want to, but even the cheapest bandmills at least double that. They incorporated a way of attaching your csm to the thing though, so if you did ever want larger slabs, you could do it that way.

So... bottom line, for $5000 (incl. generator) you got yourself a very cheap sort of swing mill. Interesting machine. I wouldn't kick it out of bed.

 

[zopi]

Very cool... didn't know what a skill mill was, googled it and watched the videos.

http://www.skillmill.com/

$4000 plus $450 to get it to your door (EAST coast US)... blades are $115, comes with two. Blades are a little pricey given what they look like on the video, but then that's probably one of those deals where they got ya by the buns since you can't get them anywhere else. Other limitation is if you're not near enough to a 20 amp circuit you need at least a 5000 watt generator, but the cheapo versions of them are under $500. Only thing that would bother me about something that expensive is the ability to only make a 4" slice, which means even if you flip it around and double cut, you can never make more than an 8 inch wide board. You might not ever want to, but even the cheapest bandmills at least double that. They incorporated a way of attaching your csm to the thing though, so if you did ever want larger slabs, you could do it that way.

So... bottom line, for $5000 (incl. generator) you got yourself a very cheap sort of swing mill. Interesting machine. I wouldn't kick it out of bed.

The CSM thing is what piqued my interest...for one thing, sawing on the CSM
with that frame means you don't have to adjust the #$%^ CSM frame after
taking the top slab (you can either slab with the power head, or CSM)
at any rate, you don't have to fiddle with the CSM guide rails either...me likey.

between the CSM and powerhead you can make any size timber, but it
is easiest if one side is no larger than 8"...take boards off the top of a log with the power head, flip the log, take the boards off the top again, until
you have an 8" thick cant with two rough sides, take the waste of of one side, stand the cant up and double cut to the depth you want...it's a little fiddly, but it also doesn't cost 12000 bucks...conversely, cut the timber to the size you need with the CSM, cut it a bit oversized, then finish cut each
side with the powerhead...

i've already got a 6500 watt generator...so no problem, and the shop i am planning will have to have 220 for the big tools anyway..so no sweat there.

there are a few posts over on the forestry forum about these things..and the drawbacks seem to be more or less similar to the issues with hobby sized band mills...except it is infinetly easier to get to the log..

I wanna see one work and i need to talk to the gurus at Peterson.

that's the other thing..it seems that it was designed by the son of the guy that invented the swing mill..and peterson makes a good machine..

I'll keep posting what I learn...

 

[infomet]

For $4K plus, I'd be looking at used bandsaw mills. There's a Norwood nearby that is in that range, with 13HP and the trailer package. It will cut logs up to at least 24", full width and as thick as you want.

 

[zopi]

For $4K plus, I'd be looking at used bandsaw mills. There's a Norwood nearby that is in that range, with 13HP and the trailer package. It will cut logs up to at least 24", full width and as thick as you want.

Nope. Wanta swing mill..first i do not have room to store a bandsaw, and I
cannot move logs to a mill very easily without buying more equipment than I already have...I have a little tractor, but it is gettin along in years, and I have a truck..so i can pull a log short distances, but for the most point I dontwant to be bothered...add to the fact that sharpening the skillmill blade is the work of a couple minutes..two cutters only, I do not want to cope with a band or several, where I must have a set and sharpening jig...god knows I spend enough time sharpening that 36" monster of mine...

I am almost never going to cut anything bigger than 4x8...and I like the flexibility of being able to cut lapped flooring boards right off the mill ready to dry and install, or cut octagons for turning stock, or notched corner posts for...blah, blah...

plus, I live in hurricane country...so there is often alot of blowdowns to hunt up and offer to dispose of...alot of them on the edge of farmers fields or down alongside the road...there is firewood and lumber for a little effort and maybe a few boards kicked back to the landowner..i can carry that little swing right to the trunk with a chainsaw and trailer in tow..haul lumber, mill
wood and tools right back out...

almost every scrap of wood on this place is found wood...including some very nice spalted burl...

that little bandsaw is limited to whatever size cant can go tween the guides...24" was your example...30" is the nominal limit of the swing...but..the limit there is imposed by the height of the mill itself...so within reasonable limits, you can block up the mill securely, make it a bit higher and expand the diameter limits...cant think of another type of mill that will do that..

iffit sounds like i am digging the idea, you might be right..

I will admit that it is a dinky little mill compared to the big Petersons or Lucas, but then I have one job to do whick will pay for it,If I go this route,
then everything else is gravy...i do not have to make money with it, although I prolly could..I just have to produce the finish lumber to fininsh the addition on the house..easy day..then I have a steady source of lumber to play with,
or sell, or (more likely) trade...sure Mr farmer, I will mill up the siding for your wifes garden shed outta yer back woodlot...trade ya for a killed and dressed hog...or half a yearling steer..orwhatever..

 

[woodshop]

...I am almost never going to cut anything bigger than 4x8...and I like the flexibility of being able to cut lapped flooring boards right off the mill ready to dry and install, or cut octagons for turning stock, or notched corner posts for...blah, blah...

Not to put a damper on your lapped flooring boards idea, but all the wood I've ever sliced from logs shrinks and moves a bit as it loses moisture. Thin stuff like 3/4, since it loses moisture so fast and often unevenly, even more so, and thus has a tendency to twist a little as we well as take on a bit of a crook as it dries. Never tried it, but it would seem to me that if you milled lapped flooring wet, by the time it dried it wouldn't fit together too well. Then again, I don't know much about this, maybe there are ways around it?

 

[Sawyer Rob]

I watched one run for several hours...several hours, because that's how long it took to saw up the same amount of logs that a guy did with his lumbermate in about 1 hour...

Man... that thing is underpowered and sloooooooooow! Also 4" cut?? That will soon bore you to death, and they are waaaaay too expensive...

Did i mention sloooow and expensive?

Sorry, i wasn't impressed at all with the Skilmill...

Woodshop is right, you won't have lumber "ready for flooring" off any mill!

DM

 

[zopi]

Not to put a damper on your lapped flooring boards idea, but all the wood I've ever sliced from logs shrinks and moves a bit as it loses moisture. Thin stuff like 3/4, since it loses moisture so fast and often unevenly, even more so, and thus has a tendency to twist a little as we well as take on a bit of a crook as it dries. Never tried it, but it would seem to me that if you milled lapped flooring wet, by the time it dried it wouldn't fit together too well. Then again, I don't know much about this, maybe there are ways around it?

I've thought that through, at least a bit..I am planning a set of clamps to
sticker the thin stuff in...timber bucks with all thread clamps on the top to give a bit of resistance to movement..I do not know how well this will work in practice, but i have seen it done...maybe do a test batch when the ime comes, both with the laps milled and plain boards...it might be better to dry before cutting the laps..guess we'll find out.

hmm...I wonder if vertical stickers along with horizontal stickers in a setup like that like that would help keep down some sidewise movement...I guess i'll guinea pig that idea...

I'm working a big pine butt log on the CSM now...gonna mill myself a kiln as it were...little solar job, much like the virginia tech model, but smaller..1000 Bf or so...i'm not interested in high production...this is a personal use home jobby..

you guys feel free to poke holes in my ideas...i tend to be a little ummm..enthusiastic sometimes

 

[MJR]

Buy a LL24 for $2900 and take the wife out to dinner. IMHO the skill mill is very over priced. I can take the cutting head off my LL24 and lean the track up on the garage wall. It takes up very little room (a lot less than a solar kiln). The LL24 is small enough to be easily moved by one person. The logs over 24” you can use the CSM. This is the system I use. There is no perfect tool, best of luck to you.

 

[zopi]

I watched one run for several hours...several hours, because that's how long it took to saw up the same amount of logs that a guy did with his lumbermate in about 1 hour...

Man... that thing is underpowered and sloooooooooow! Also 4" cut?? That will soon bore you to death, and they are waaaaay too expensive...

Did i mention sloooow and expensive?

Sorry, i wasn't impressed at all with the Skilmill...

Woodshop is right, you won't have lumber "ready for flooring" off any mill!

DM

Was it faster than a CSM? I'm not all that worried about speed, considering what i'm using now...by the time I set up the guide rails, and cut the cant,
and roll the log around to make slabs into lumber, I'm eating up a butt ton of time anyway...

i would love to have a bigger swing mill...lucas 613 or a Peterson ATS...but unless I find a really smoking deal on a used one, (and I will try when the time comes) I can't justify the outlay for a bigger faster mill...at the end of the day i'm just in this as a hobby, so production isn't a big deal...I doubt i'll be too bored, I'm one of those that enjoys mowing grass and it doesn't get much more repetitious than that...

I really don't want a band mill...'cept maybe a ripsaw, I do like woodshops'
setup...marvel of ingenuity there...

It IS expensive, I will concede, and I will most certainly find a way to try one out before i buy it...

"Ready for flooring" was a misstatement on my part..as I said above there will be a bit of experiment there... The thing I was looking at was not having to use multiple machines...running each piece through a tablesaw or shaper several times will definetly be a pain..

I appreciate the input!

 

[woodshop]

I watched one run for several hours...several hours, because that's how long it took to saw up the same amount of logs that a guy did with his lumbermate in about 1 hour...

Man... that thing is underpowered and sloooooooooow! Also 4" cut?? That will soon bore you to death, and they are waaaaay too expensive...

Well, this confirms my suspicions. Ripsaw at one time had an electric motor version, but don't any more. Problem is pure physics, you just can't get enough power to a motor like that without getting industrial, like really high amp motors, three phase etc etc. The math just doesn't add up, you can't bluff your way past Ohm's law. P=IxE, Power (watts) equels current (amps) times voltage, no way around that. I'm sure it moves through the wood, it does on the videos shown on their site, but with a motor only using 5KW of power max, I can see it bogging down quickly when the going gets tough. Maybe I'm the wrong one to comment though because one of the things I can't handle in life is anemic electric tools. Send a boy to do a mans job and you'll end up frustrated. I've upgraded much of my equipment in the woodshop to larger machines that won't get bogged down in serious wood because I don't have the patience for slow underpowered tools.

The 4 inch max cut and $115 for a relatively small 2 tooth blade would prevent me from getting it right from the start, but I can see others in different situations with different uses being OK with that I suppose.

Zopi, I'm not trying to "poke holes in your ideas" as you put it, I like your enthusiasm. I'm just going by my past experiences with machinery and milling/drying wood. Vertical stickers to try and keep thin wet lumber from taking on a bit of a crook, bow, cup or twist just wouldn't work because you could never get them rigid or tight enough to stop the defect as it dried. Example: ...I've clamped wood between all thread and kept it tight as the boards dried, and some of them STILL took on some twist. It's the physical makeup of the grain in the board you're dealing with. In some cases it has the do with where the wood was cut from the log, whether it was under compression (like wood from the underside of a large branch) or tension, the other extreme. Lots of variables.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Was it faster than a CSM? I'm not all that worried about speed, considering what i'm using now...by the time I set up the guide rails, and cut the cant,
and roll the log around to make slabs into lumber, I'm eating up a butt ton of time anyway...

i would love to have a bigger swing mill...lucas 613 or a Peterson ATS...but unless I find a really smoking deal on a used one, (and I will try when the time comes) I can't justify the outlay for a bigger faster mill...at the end of the day i'm just in this as a hobby, so production isn't a big deal...I doubt i'll be too bored, I'm one of those that enjoys mowing grass and it doesn't get much more repetitious than that...

I really don't want a band mill...'cept maybe a ripsaw, I do like woodshops'
setup...marvel of ingenuity there...

It IS expensive, I will concede, and I will most certainly find a way to try one out before i buy it...

"Ready for flooring" was a misstatement on my part..as I said above there will be a bit of experiment there... The thing I was looking at was not having to use multiple machines...running each piece through a tablesaw or shaper several times will definetly be a pain..

I appreciate the input!

Sometimes when i answer questions on this forum it may look like i'm being a smart@$$ but i'm not.... I look at the questions through eyes that already have done a lot of milling, with a lot of different machines...

You "will" get bored with that 4" cut... In time you will really wish you could get wider lumber.

Faster than a CSM? Yes, kinda... but with that small cut it still takes forever to saw a log up, and you end up with a zillion small boards, that are many times harder to dry straight than wider lumber... Stickering and taking care of all those 4" boards will be a bear, and if you ever decide to sell a little lumber to pay for your hobby, your customers will want wider lumber... I'm speaking from experience here...

The speed of that mill is the pitts, but what will get you down for sure is that 4" cut... That saw is over priced for what you end up with...

If you make flooring, and you want it worth putting down in anything except a very rough cabin, or chicken coop, your going to need more machines!

Once you have some milling experience, you will wish you had bought a bandmill... You can take the head off a small one, and lean the track up against a wall...

I don't care what you buy, i'm just trying pass on some of my experience to you...

Robert

 

[woodshop]

... If you make flooring, and you want it worth putting down in anything except a very rough cabin, or chicken coop, your going to need more machines!...

A big second on this one... you really can't make flooring in any quantity or quality without a jointer/planer or one of those combo molding units that allow you to switch out molding cutters with the planer knives. If you want tung and groove you'll need a shaper or at the very least a big a$$ router table with a 3HP router. You will need to do this on dry stable lumber or it will at the very least shrink as it dries, and not necessarily evenly across all your boards depending on whether they were quartersawn/riftsawn (less shrinkage) or flatsawn (most shrinkage).

 

[zopi]

This is turning into a good discussion! When I say poke holes in..I welcome that...I work in QA...we split hairs for fun, I don't want to come off as defensive.. the drying and warpage issue is one I will have to learn to deal with, It's gonna be a curve (so to speak). it may be that this mill isn't what i'm looking for..or it may be the very thing.. i'm not ruling out a different option, but I want to research everything before i commit...I like the swing mill design and operation, it fits what i want to do....maybe i need to look at a 6" mill, but if I do it will have to be a used unit with all that implies..add to the fact that the CSM can't be used as a slabber on any of the others, at least without some creative construction...f'r instance with th e lucas, i could see welding up a new trolley to carry the CSM, or have to buy a dedicated slabber for the mill...

i'll have to talk to the folks at peterson and put out a feeler on the forestry forum to see if there is anyone in the area here who has one...particularly
to see if dropping the CSM into the frame is effective as claimed..that part MUST work well..because a big part of what i want to do is make tabletop slabs...sure I can do it with just the csm, but a major selling point is that feature.

Rob: Don't sweat sounding like a Smart @ss...i am a smart ass...but I am intelligent enough to realize that inflection doesn't come through a computer well...I really do appreciate the input...

I do have the other machines...big tablesaw, router table, industrial planer (like 12"x16"!) 18" bandsaw, 14" bandsaw, 8" jointer, I could go on, but you see the point<GRIN> there is a thread on here from a few months back
that tells how I came on to the big machines...buddy of mine works construction and they demo'd a high school....and gave me most of the machinery from the wood shop... (heh...I might ought to mill me a shop...oh..certified lumber..right..)

I'll look at the band angle again and think about it...dude down the road from me has a ' mizer...maybe i'll go make his acquaintance and try it out...handling the logs >is< a big concern for me though...I'm a little guy,
so wrestling a big log around is an issue, and there will not be $$$ for a loader for a long time..plus my tractors are old and mostly toys...

I'll be back on later, I just though up an excuse to leave work early...conna go cut some wood now...Thanks again for the input guys!

 

[zopi]

The point just became moot, dear Wifey went out and looked at the pile o logs, and we came back here and I showed her all the different websites and opinions on different mills that are worth having...woodmizer, norwood, ripsaw,
(yah had me sold on that one) skillmill...

she asked me which one was the least "fiddly" and best quality...so I showed her the woodmizer LT10 and 15...she asked if she could learn to use the bandmills...then told me to #### and buy an LT-15 with electric start...and a bed extension...

seems she is allergic to pull cords or something.

I guess that will be best..(she knows me, if it's "fiddly" I tend to get sloppy)

did i mention that i have the wife of the millenium? it's good to be married to an engineer...

so, the projects that I must do, include residing two buildings...they are all
sawmill lumber anyway...rebuilding the woodshed (it was a POS to begin with) doing the millwork for the addition, flooring, trim and and panelling,
all to fit in with the original woodwork in a 170 year old farmhouse...and i desperately need a workshop...got no place for my big WW tools and they are about to be essential.

and a kiln.

do not ask me about doing something in my spare time.:jawdrop:

 

[oldsaw]

The point just became moot, dear Wifey went out and looked at the pile o logs, and we came back here and I showed her all the different websites and opinions on different mills that are worth having...woodmizer, norwood, ripsaw,
(yah had me sold on that one) skillmill...

she asked me which one was the least "fiddly" and best quality...so I showed her the woodmizer LT10 and 15...she asked if she could learn to use the bandmills...then told me to #### and buy an LT-15 with electric start...and a bed extension...

seems she is allergic to pull cords or something.

I guess that will be best..(she knows me, if it's "fiddly" I tend to get sloppy)

did i mention that i have the wife of the millenium? it's good to be married to an engineer...

so, the projects that I must do, include residing two buildings...they are all
sawmill lumber anyway...rebuilding the woodshed (it was a POS to begin with) doing the millwork for the addition, flooring, trim and and panelling,
all to fit in with the original woodwork in a 170 year old farmhouse...and i desperately need a workshop...got no place for my big WW tools and they are about to be essential.

and a kiln.

do not ask me about doing something in my spare time.:jawdrop:

That is a good machine. If you don't mind the puzzle of parts and the construction time, a friend of mine has a Norwood. Very nice for the $$. Watch the throat size on any bandmill though. My buddy has 20". My job with the CSM is to get big logs down to mill size.

Mark

 

[Sawyer Rob]

That is a good machine. If you don't mind the puzzle of parts and the construction time, a friend of mine has a Norwood. Very nice for the $$. Watch the throat size on any bandmill though. My buddy has 20". My job with the CSM is to get big logs down to mill size.
Mark

Norwoods LM 2000 is rated for 32" diameter logs, and it will saw them, but they are work! I know a guy that sawed up a 42" on his LM, but it takes a lot of turning to do it!

I've sawn on, or looked over and seen in action, most all of the smaller bandmills, Norwood has the most full size bandmill for the least dollars spent, that actually does work as advertised.

There is some junk out there that i wouldn't buy for any money, but i have to say, the Lumbermate is one heck of a sawmill...

A 5 year old could start the Honda 13 that comes standard on a Lumbermate, and i consider it a better motor than the Kohler 15 that's offered as an option... It makes the whole mill simpler with less to go wrong a few years down the road too...

How do i know this??? Well, i owned and sawed with one for many years!

Rob

 

[zopi]

Norwoods LM 2000 is rated for 32" diameter logs, and it will saw them, but they are work! I know a guy that sawed up a 42" on his LM, but it takes a lot of turning to do it!

I've sawn on, or looked over and seen in action, most all of the smaller bandmills, Norwood has the most full size bandmill for the least dollars spent, that actually does work as advertised.

There is some junk out there that i wouldn't buy for any money, but i have to say, the Lumbermate is one heck of a sawmill...

A 5 year old could start the Honda 13 that comes standard on a Lumbermate, and i consider it a better motor than the Kohler 15 that's offered as an option... It makes the whole mill simpler with less to go wrong a few years down the road too...

How do i know this??? Well, i owned and sawed with one for many years!

Rob

Yeah...you told me so...:greenchainsaw: :monkey:

i'd still rather have a swinger, but to get any quality is simply out of reach.

I considered the Norwood, but the fiddly factor comes back into play...oldsaw says something about pieces/parts..yeah..erector set was not my favorite toy..legos on the other hand...so i have ADD..sue me..i medicate with beer..

I have not sawed with one, but i have looked at and watched a butt ton of
woodmizers working, and they impressed me alot..

before I buy this thing i will try to get a demo locally..

wifeys big thing was, she wants to learn how to run it, and she can't deal with the weight of handling a ripsaw...she can damn sure roll a log with a cant hook tho'....

 

[MJR]

My Tech has a LT15. It is a very good machine. You and your wife should be able to load it in the back of your truck with little issues (WO/Bed extension). I have run this machine and it is very well made. The only negative is the price. Next you will be selling that FLHTCU for a trailer and skid steer…and so it begins.

 

[zopi]

Next you will be selling that FLHTCU for a trailer and skid steer…and so it begins.

Wanna Bet? already gotta trailer....can borrow skid steer..i'd rather be eaten alive by turkey buzzards than give up my ultra...<G>