motorboy
ArboristSite Member
So does it cut faster? I have been thinking about getting some loops for my 272 from Baileys. Which is better, (durability and cut), Oregon or WoodsmanPro?
So square ground chain really does cut faster?
- Thread starter motorboy
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Generally, yes. In clean wood it is generally faster than equivilent off-the-roll round-ground. After that, it's up to your sharpening skills. You can do a fast round-ground with a file fairly eaily, and can do a slow square with a file fairly easily, too.
Oregon comes dull-ish off the roll, and is Oregon: easy to sharpen, easy to dull. No idea on WP. But if you're just playin' around, the Oregon might be nice because it is easier to resharpen.
B_Turner
Addicted to ArboristSite
It's gets argued about whether or not square out of the box cuts faster than ideally sharpened round chisel. I say yes, Stihl RSLK cuts faster than round even out of the box, some say no.
WIth Oregon CL and CLX it is not clear to me, as the loops I've bought don't seem as sharp as Stihl out of the box. Or in my case off the reel.
I started a thread a little while back extolling the virutes of fresh ground square as making fresh round ground seemed anemic, but mostly (not Treeslingr, though) got theold it doesn't last as long as round chisel. I feel that this is true, but I have run a LOT of both types side by side in the same wood, and also feel the difference in durability between round and square chisel is less than generally believed - depending on how radical the square is sharpened. Naturally semi-chisel lasts considerably longer than both.
Bottom line for most, if you don't have a square grinder you have no idea what real performance is. Don't ever try fresh well sharpened square then, because you will no longer be satisfied with round chisel and you will be very sad.
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Stihl square ground skip tooth eats wood up. Especiely northwest fir.Ive used it occasionaly when shop has been out of round chisel. It is faster!!
Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
It's gets argued about whether or not square out of the box cuts faster than ideally sharpened round chisel. I say yes, Stihl RSLK cuts faster than round even out of the box, some say no.
WIth Oregon CL and CLX it is not clear to me, as the loops I've bought don't seem as sharp as Stihl out of the box. Or in my case off the reel.
I started a thread a little while back extolling the virutes of fresh ground square as making fresh round ground seemed anemic, but mostly (not Treeslingr, though) got theold it doesn't last as long as round chisel. I feel that this is true, but I have run a LOT of both types side by side in the same wood, and also feel the difference in durability between round and square chipper is less than generally believed - depending on how radical the square is sharpened. Naturally semi-chisel lasts considerably longer than both.
Bottom line for most, if you don't have a square grinder you have no idea what real performance is. Don't ever try fresh well sharpened square then, because you will no longer be satisfied with round chisel and you will be very sad.
+1
not much question square cuts much faster than round.
but along with this advantage comes some major disadvantages.
square cut chain gets dull quick, if you hit any dirt at all.
another major disadvantage is lack of affordable square chain grinders.
with NO hand filing jigs available for square chain.
it's extremely hard to hand file squire chain in the field. vs round chain can be hand filed in the field very quickly. most times in a few minutes.
getting frustrated and thinking of switch back to round filed chain due to pita nature of supporting square chain without a silvey square chain grinder. not ready to drop $3k on a grinder.
but along with this advantage comes some major disadvantages.
square cut chain gets dull quick, if you hit any dirt at all.
another major disadvantage is lack of affordable square chain grinders.
with NO hand filing jigs available for square chain.
it's extremely hard to hand file squire chain in the field. vs round chain can be hand filed in the field very quickly. most times in a few minutes.
getting frustrated and thinking of switch back to round filed chain due to pita nature of supporting square chain without a silvey square chain grinder. not ready to drop $3k on a grinder.
Hear alot about Square ground in soft wood ..Hows it hold up in Hard wood like Hickory,Hedge ect.???
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smokechase II
Addicted to ArboristSite
filing
I only field file square chisel at the start of a chains life.
I simply am not good enough to maintain the angles/point exactly placed etc.
It is important to buy good files. Especially so when square filing.
{It would be nice if I had gotten good at field filing square as the flat square files are easier to carry and they double up for rakers and cleaning up drivers.}
So I often end up converting the chain to round filed on about the third or fourth filing. Remember, the Angles are different.
Square is absolutely great for fast cutting in clean - green wood.
You can oversharpen your round filed chain by putting too much hook into it. This 'hungry' chain will cut very close to a square filed but seems to be far more prone to kickback and bogging down.
Trivia: Don't always expect new chain to be super sharp. It's not just the high rakers. Sometimes it gets handled enough that a 1 stroke sharpening can make quit a difference.
More Trivia: The Stihl round filed is usually $10/roll more than the exact same chisel chain that is square filed.
I only field file square chisel at the start of a chains life.
I simply am not good enough to maintain the angles/point exactly placed etc.
It is important to buy good files. Especially so when square filing.
{It would be nice if I had gotten good at field filing square as the flat square files are easier to carry and they double up for rakers and cleaning up drivers.}
So I often end up converting the chain to round filed on about the third or fourth filing. Remember, the Angles are different.
Square is absolutely great for fast cutting in clean - green wood.
You can oversharpen your round filed chain by putting too much hook into it. This 'hungry' chain will cut very close to a square filed but seems to be far more prone to kickback and bogging down.
Trivia: Don't always expect new chain to be super sharp. It's not just the high rakers. Sometimes it gets handled enough that a 1 stroke sharpening can make quit a difference.
More Trivia: The Stihl round filed is usually $10/roll more than the exact same chisel chain that is square filed.
1953greg
ArboristSite Guru
smoke,
so is the only difference in round chisel and square chisel the way its sharpened? ie angles, file or wheel. the chains start out the same?
i have never used square
so is the only difference in round chisel and square chisel the way its sharpened? ie angles, file or wheel. the chains start out the same?
i have never used square
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smokechase II
Addicted to ArboristSite
difference
The angles are different. Surprisingly square is flatter angled.
See your chains manufacturer specs for the upward angle they recommend.
The big difference to me is getting that point/tip of the tooth perfectly matched. If I slide up or down and that point is not at the tip, adios to fast cutting.
With the round file, you can miss-locate the hook up or down, but since its circular, you can be slightly up or down and you'll be OK. Too much up means duller, too far down means over sharp and prone to kickback, bogging down and it dull's quickly.
Longer file (round) makes it quicker to sharpen than the usual shorter square file for chisel chain.
You can convert a square filed chisel to round filed easily. Not so the reverse unless your the man on a grinder.
Many loggers can square file far better than I, but still operate by packing extra chains that they have sharpened for them by a shop, (grinder). Two reasons, 1) down time in the field means less production, 2) harder to file.
The angles are different. Surprisingly square is flatter angled.
See your chains manufacturer specs for the upward angle they recommend.
The big difference to me is getting that point/tip of the tooth perfectly matched. If I slide up or down and that point is not at the tip, adios to fast cutting.
With the round file, you can miss-locate the hook up or down, but since its circular, you can be slightly up or down and you'll be OK. Too much up means duller, too far down means over sharp and prone to kickback, bogging down and it dull's quickly.
Longer file (round) makes it quicker to sharpen than the usual shorter square file for chisel chain.
You can convert a square filed chisel to round filed easily. Not so the reverse unless your the man on a grinder.
Many loggers can square file far better than I, but still operate by packing extra chains that they have sharpened for them by a shop, (grinder). Two reasons, 1) down time in the field means less production, 2) harder to file.
smokechase II
Addicted to ArboristSite
which tool to sharpen with
If you do get a grinder.
1) Get a couple old throw away chains to practice on.
2) Take a resolution that you will do ecerything humanly possible to create less metal filings on your shop floor then all the other fools before you. Gringers make it easy to destroy chain faster than cutting rocks. Put the two together and mega-filings.
You should be asking Grande Dog, on this forum search for his eact spelling and e-mail him. He is from the Bailey's Company that advertises here.
If you do get a grinder.
1) Get a couple old throw away chains to practice on.
2) Take a resolution that you will do ecerything humanly possible to create less metal filings on your shop floor then all the other fools before you. Gringers make it easy to destroy chain faster than cutting rocks. Put the two together and mega-filings.
You should be asking Grande Dog, on this forum search for his eact spelling and e-mail him. He is from the Bailey's Company that advertises here.
square versus round
square cuts good when sharp when it dulls it is a beach to get sharp by hand:deadhorse:
round is just the reverse of square
round ground chains properly filed cut as good as square. as for stihl chains too hard to hand file and get a clean cutting edge:hmm3grin2orange: they are easy to sharpen with a high quality file.
oregon and woodsman pro are the best chains. as i have said before anything factory stock needs to be tune by the end user:biggrinbounce2:
square cuts good when sharp when it dulls it is a beach to get sharp by hand:deadhorse:
round is just the reverse of square
round ground chains properly filed cut as good as square. as for stihl chains too hard to hand file and get a clean cutting edge:hmm3grin2orange: they are easy to sharpen with a high quality file.
oregon and woodsman pro are the best chains. as i have said before anything factory stock needs to be tune by the end user:biggrinbounce2:
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timberat, get a top quality file like stihl and you will not have any problems filing harder stihl chains.
disagree round can cut equally fast as square. a nice sharp square chain absolutely smokes a nice sharp round.
and yes stihl chains are much better than thing else, I've tried. my problems getting em local for a reasonable price. they want almost 3x what I can purchase chain online. for that much price difference, I'm using carlton or oragon chain. if I could get stihl anywhere close to online price. I'd be using stihl chain
disagree round can cut equally fast as square. a nice sharp square chain absolutely smokes a nice sharp round.
and yes stihl chains are much better than thing else, I've tried. my problems getting em local for a reasonable price. they want almost 3x what I can purchase chain online. for that much price difference, I'm using carlton or oragon chain. if I could get stihl anywhere close to online price. I'd be using stihl chain
redprospector
Addicted to ArboristSite
Don't take this wrong, but you guys just need to spend a little more time filing, and get rid of the idea that it's a PIA. Think of it as a learning experience.
A square chisel chain can be sharpened in the field verry quickly if it's not run to long. Just like round filing, it will become second nature. I only carry 1 extra chain to the woods, and only change them if I happen to hit a rock. A square grinder is nice, but not absolutly necessary if you take the time to learn to file right. Try a Silvey swing arm, less than 1000.00.
Hang in there, when it comes togeather for you it will be like magic and you'll wonder what all the fuss was about before.
Andy
A square chisel chain can be sharpened in the field verry quickly if it's not run to long. Just like round filing, it will become second nature. I only carry 1 extra chain to the woods, and only change them if I happen to hit a rock. A square grinder is nice, but not absolutly necessary if you take the time to learn to file right. Try a Silvey swing arm, less than 1000.00.
Hang in there, when it comes togeather for you it will be like magic and you'll wonder what all the fuss was about before.
Andy
square is ok
i dont mind fileing square ground chain. the only reasun i used round ground is when time is money when i am doing contract falling. if i am cutting wood for my self i enjoy square ground when time is a plenty.
i dont mind fileing square ground chain. the only reasun i used round ground is when time is money when i am doing contract falling. if i am cutting wood for my self i enjoy square ground when time is a plenty.
Diesel JD
ArboristSite Guru
So it is possible for a man to learn to do a good job filing on these? What's the best file for a beginner? I was surprised I didn't screw mine up right out of the package, the first time I filed it. The Oregon 72CL was not super impressive with the factory grind, but seemed a bit faster than the 33RS I started with. I'd get the Stihls square chisel, but I bet my dealer would look at me like I had an arm growing out of my head if I was to ask for 33RSLK.
B_Turner
Addicted to ArboristSite
The Oregon CL cuts fine once resharpened (square). I can get Stihl reels for the same price as Oregon, so that is what I do. Seems to be a slightly tougher chain to me. But both work fine. I maybe could learn to square file by hand, but I have plenty of other things to keep learning that will serve me better. That's why I have a square grinder.
In my own defense, I do sharpen woodcutting gouges by hand on a wheel sometimes over a hundred of times a day, so I appreciate a good edge.
Diesel JD
ArboristSite Guru
I would assume it would be more efficient for a professional to have a grinder, but guys like me that just like square better and have time to file it, but not the money for a grinder pretty much need to get good at hand filing from my perspective. If I could get Stihl anywhere close to Oregon prices I might have a lot more Stihl chains. Square ground is just not used around here so most of the dealers will probably not even know what I mean if I ask. I'd probably have to lshow him in the catalogue.
