Soaking firewood in old used motor oil?

[Whitespider]

Here is a quote from Roger Sanders, the designer of a homemade (drip style) waste oil heater he calls the “Mother Earth News Waste Oil Heater”. His design is probably the most copied... He sells the book of plans to build it for $22.50. The heater can be built for as little as $50.oo if you scrounge some of your parts. Roger states that it doesn’t have to be built exactly as his, he uses old water heaters but any suitable combustion chamber will work. I’m not saying this is substantiated proof; I’m only quoting the designer...

"Commercial waste oil heaters use large amounts of electricity, which is expensive and defeats the idea of using 'free' fuel and being environmentally responsible. They atomize the oil through a nozzle. The contaminants in the oil are atomized as well, and a blower is used, causing the contaminants to be blown out the flue into the atmosphere. The contaminants include toxic substances such as heavy metals (lead, zinc, cadmium. chromium) that are better left behind in a burner rather than being discharged into the atmosphere where we can breathe them.
So vaporization heaters like the Mother Earth News heater are more 'green' than an atomization heater. My heater distills the oil, automatically removing heavy metals from the oil before burning it. This heater effectively eliminates airborne, heavy metal pollution. I consider my heater to be environmentally friendly and essentially pollution-free."

 

[pook]

Here is a quote from Roger Sanders, the designer of a homemade (drip style) waste oil heater he calls the “Mother Earth News Waste Oil Heater”. His design is probably the most copied... He sells the book of plans to build it for $22.50. The heater can be built for as little as $50.oo if you scrounge some of your parts. Roger states that it doesn’t have to be built exactly as his, he uses old water heaters but any suitable combustion chamber will work. I’m not saying this is substantiated proof; I’m only quoting the designer...

If his design was patenetd? he wouldnt need sell it for $22.50. Why are EPA approved waste oil burners based on atomization gun?

 

[logbutcher]

Here we have virgin (or virginal) green, sustainable, renewable, oh so lovely trees that give us our manhood to harvest them to keep our a$$es warm.
AND YOU WANT TO SOAK THEM IN OIL !!!!!!

WHY ????

It's messy; wood is clean, virginal.
It makes logs slimy.
It makes snorting firewood splits obsolete.
It f's up your wood burner.
etc...etc...etc....

And for you calling us "city folk", we haven't poured waste oil down any holes for years here in the real rural.

 

[ks_osage_orange]

You guys in the North East are going to think I'm dumb here, and maybe I am. But, what about the heating oil used in your region for heat. We don't use it here in the central plains so I'm unsure of what heating oil consist of. Do you have units that burn it for your heat? I realized its not used motor oil being burned in a homemade stove, but isn't it still a petroleum product being burned? BTW I haven't ever used oil soaked wood nor would I, but I'm curious as to why this thread is being argued with so much passion over burning OIL?

 

[clinchscavalry]

You guys in the North East are going to think I'm dumb here, and maybe I am. But, what about the heating oil used in your region for heat. We don't use it here in the central plains so I'm unsure of what heating oil consist of. Do you have units that burn it for your heat? I realized its not used motor oil being burned in a homemade stove, but isn't it still a petroleum product being burned? BTW I haven't ever used oil soaked wood nor would I, but I'm curious as to why this thread is being argued with so much passion over burning OIL?

Good point !!!!!

 

[Ambull]

You guys in the North East are going to think I'm dumb here, and maybe I am. But, what about the heating oil used in your region for heat. We don't use it here in the central plains so I'm unsure of what heating oil consist of. Do you have units that burn it for your heat? I realized its not used motor oil being burned in a homemade stove, but isn't it still a petroleum product being burned? BTW I haven't ever used oil soaked wood nor would I, but I'm curious as to why this thread is being argued with so much passion over burning OIL?

Heating oil is low grade diesel fuel.

 

[Whitespider]

pook-
Show me where the EPA has standards or approval ratings for waste oil burners. Show me where the EPA says the burner has to be the atomization type.

Here's a news flash for ya'. The EPA only has standards for the waste oil itself, it's either classified as on-specification or off-specification. On-spec oil has been processed by a recycler, and is the only waste oil that can be bought, sold and used on the industrial market.
On-spec waste oil has limits as to the maximum individual contaminates it may contain. If (for example) the recycler gets a batch with too much lead in it he'll just blend it with a batch that has low lead levels so the final blend is on-spec. The reasoning for this isn't emissions from burning but rather the dangers associated with human contact in case of a spill.
Off-spec waste oil is just that, oil that hasn't been tested and spec'd, but is legal to burn by generator or anyone that the generator gives it (free of charge) to. That pretty much limits the generator of usable off-spec waste oil to a homeowner or private citizen because generator businesses are required to use it on-site or dispose of it through a licensed recycler... as I said in a previous post, it's designed to increase government revenue.

Here's another news flash for ya'. NEARLY ALL WASTE OIL IS BURNED! It is considered a cleaner alternative to Heating Fuel Oil. When all the factors are figured in (such as emissions generated during refinement of heating grade fuel oil) waste oil is considered cleaner and more environmentally friendly than Fuel Oil. The cleanest way to burn waste oil is in a vaporization (drip style) burner because particulate and heavy metal emission is greatly reduced (it remains in the burner as ash and such). Of course, this means the burner must be cleaned so most industry(s) use the atomization type to reduce maintenance at the cost of higher polluting emissions (but still within EPA standards).

When you drip waste oil into your wood stove, or burn oil soaked wood, you are using the vaporization method of burning... the heavy metals and a large percentage of particulates remain in the stove as ash...
And one more news flash...
Wood ash and waste oil ash are not much different from each other. Remember your Natural History class? Oil is nothing more than really, really old trees and vegetation. And most of the things that contaminate waste oil (such as gasoline, diesel fuel, etc.) are made from... well, oil. Just as ks_osage_orange suspected, trees take in heavy metals from the soil and when the wood is burned those metals remain as ash.

The secondary burn that happens in a wood stove is nothing more than the further chemical breakdown of compound gasses such as CO, CO2, NO, NOx, Ch4, etc. The gasses and smoke (mostly carbon particulate) are the same (just different percentages) when anything is burned, and will ignite in secondary burn, at the same temperature, whether they come from wood, waste oil or dog doo-doo.

This is all basic chemistry... no magic... and most of it can be found on the EPA website if you're willing to search the thousands of document pages.

I've been holding out on you guys, hoping someone else would chime in with some actual facts, but alas no one has. As a Waste Oil Generator, our family owned Auto Dealership had to send someone to EPA training on the handling, disposal and recycling of waste oil in order to meet the new EPA regulations. I spent three days sitting in that training... Burning waste oil for heat or energy creation is the preferred (EPA) method of disposal... What did you think they did with it?

 

[Wood Doctor]

Heating oil is low grade diesel fuel.

+1. Some old diesel engines will still run on heating oil and issue rather few complaints.

 

[TumblebugTaylor]

Ive used a hot plate type oil heater where a good wood fire is maintained that heats a plate and the oil drips onto the pan and spashes and evaporate. A good draft is needed. One time I was an operator on a job and on wet days I worked on equipment. My shop was a slab poured between 2 tool trailers with a span roof over them. I had a helper that was older and stayed cold during the day. I took a large pipe and made a heater out of it.

I also needed to get rid of aton of waste oil. I had one of those metal cup sand blasters that looks like a paint gun. I took and welded the nozzle into the heater in a hole I bored into the side. I made and adapter to put the spayer tank onto a larger tank. Add a small fire then turn on the air compressor. It would make the whole heater cherry red. The smoke was clear.


We have a Clean Burn waste oil heater in the shop at work. It does a great job but has trouble running over night. It loses it prime some times. We burn a gallon an hour and can keep the 40 by 40 building at work about 85.

The main reason we have this is to rid ourselves of waste oil, Its not super cheap as it take and air compressor to atomize the fuel and electricity the run the pumps. The only reason we use this is when DEQ checks in and sees this they dont ask to see our waste oil disposal sheets.

 

[pook]

pook-
Show me where the EPA has standards or approval ratings for waste oil burners. Show me where the EPA says the burner has to be the atomization type.

Here's a news flash for ya'. The EPA only has standards for the waste oil itself, it's either classified as on-specification or off-specification. On-spec oil has been processed by a recycler, and is the only waste oil that can be bought, sold and used on the industrial market.
On-spec waste oil has limits as to the maximum individual contaminates it may contain. If (for example) the recycler gets a batch with too much lead in it he'll just blend it with a batch that has low lead levels so the final blend is on-spec. The reasoning for this isn't emissions from burning but rather the dangers associated with human contact in case of a spill.
Off-spec waste oil is just that, oil that hasn't been tested and spec'd, but is legal to burn by generator or anyone that the generator gives it (free of charge) to. That pretty much limits the generator of usable off-spec waste oil to a homeowner or private citizen because generator businesses are required to use it on-site or dispose of it through a licensed recycler... as I said in a previous post, it's designed to increase government revenue.

Here's another news flash for ya'. NEARLY ALL WASTE OIL IS BURNED! It is considered a cleaner alternative to Heating Fuel Oil. When all the factors are figured in (such as emissions generated during refinement of heating grade fuel oil) waste oil is considered cleaner and more environmentally friendly than Fuel Oil. The cleanest way to burn waste oil is in a vaporization (drip style) burner because particulate and heavy metal emission is greatly reduced (it remains in the burner as ash and such). Of course, this means the burner must be cleaned so most industry(s) use the atomization type to reduce maintenance at the cost of higher polluting emissions (but still within EPA standards).

When you drip waste oil into your wood stove, or burn oil soaked wood, you are using the vaporization method of burning... the heavy metals and a large percentage of particulates remain in the stove as ash...
And one more news flash...
Wood ash and waste oil ash are not much different from each other. Remember your Natural History class? Oil is nothing more than really, really old trees and vegetation. And most of the things that contaminate waste oil (such as gasoline, diesel fuel, etc.) are made from... well, oil. Just as ks_osage_orange suspected, trees take in heavy metals from the soil and when the wood is burned those metals remain as ash.

The secondary burn that happens in a wood stove is nothing more than the further chemical breakdown of compound gasses such as CO, CO2, NO, NOx, Ch4, etc. The gasses and smoke (mostly carbon particulate) are the same (just different percentages) when anything is burned, and will ignite in secondary burn, at the same temperature, whether they come from wood, waste oil or dog doo-doo.

This is all basic chemistry... no magic... and most of it can be found on the EPA website if you're willing to search the thousands of document pages.

I've been holding out on you guys, hoping someone else would chime in with some actual facts, but alas no one has. As a Waste Oil Generator, our family owned Auto Dealership had to send someone to EPA training on the handling, disposal and recycling of waste oil in order to meet the new EPA regulations. I spent three days sitting in that training... Burning waste oil for heat or energy creation is the preferred (EPA) method of disposal... What did you think they did with it?

http://www.cleanburn.com/advantage/environment.html
once i tried dripping used oil into a steady flame from a sawdust burner & got nasty smoke. asked prof who said detergent in oil wasnt burning. Aprior link said oil had to burn super hot but not how hot so to burn all the nasties. A flame in a woodstove is ~ 1200*f whereas a gassifier claims the flame can reach 2000*f. I've tried to burn K2 intead of kerosene in old oil burner & the smoke was nasty also. An atomizer can burn k2 cleanly , not the old oil stove.
I assume if a simpler,clean, oil burner could be had, the EPA would love it & the inventor would be rich.

 

[Whitespider]

pook, you're starting to make me wonder if you're... Never mind.

A sawdust burner, a professor and detergent?
Really? That's what you're basing your beliefs on?
A professor of what? Antamology?

That prior link did not say oil has to burn "super hot" and it came from a web site called "Ask A Scientist (give me a break) and was a statement from yet another professor (who stated he wasn't an expert in the field, go figure)... C'mon, you're jokin', right? In any event, here's the actual quote;

...unless the oil is combusted at a very high temperature and with sufficient oxygen, a host of nasty organic reaction products will occur.

So tell me, what exactly is "very high temperature"? Zinc melts at 787-degrees, Lead melts at 621-degrees, Cadmium at 610, , Tin at 450, Potassium at just 146-degrees... are any of those "very high temperature"? That statement is so generalized that it means nothing and can be applied to any burning substance, i.e. if you oxygen starve a wood fire the temperature lowers and it produces massive amounts of carbon monoxide. Well jee-wiz professor, thank you for that enlightenment.

Oh... and just so you know pook... a typical industrial furnace runs at about 1700/1800-degrees... Does that qualify as "super hot" enough for ya'?

I assume if a simpler,clean, oil burner could be had, the EPA would love it & the inventor would be rich.

C'mon pook, use your head. Who said that a vaporization (drip style) burner is simpler? At least at the industrial level? The nozzle feed atomizing furnace can be electronically ignited, easily connected to a simple thermostat and run with minimal maintenance. The nozzle feed atomizing furnace is the simpler of the two, but not the environmentally cleanest (air quality) of the two. The nozzle feed atomizing furnace is smaller (per BTU output) but also requires electricity to run pumps, blowers and whatnot. The typical vaporization (drip style) burner requires attention similar to a wood stove, it isn't a practical alternative for industry... But it does run with cleaner emissions from the stack, as clean or cleaner than most wood stoves because of the (higher than a wood stove) average temperatures. It's simple, basic chemistry, nothing more.

It has become quite obvious some of you hold the social belief that oil is bad and anything else is good. I entertain no notion that I can change your minds, but I can't sit idle and let misinformation based on emotion instead of fact go unchallenged. If y'all wann'a keep drinking that kool-aid handed to you by the environmentalists, global warming (so-called) experts and Al Gore types, that's your choice... but at least take the time to research the facts, and their credibility, before you make an argument. Even the EPA is on board with the burning of waste oil, even in homemade drip style burners, you should be able to take a clue from that at least.

 

[Jredsjeep]

http://www.cleanburn.com/advantage/environment.html
once i tried dripping used oil into a steady flame from a sawdust burner & got nasty smoke. asked prof who said detergent in oil wasnt burning. Aprior link said oil had to burn super hot but not how hot so to burn all the nasties. A flame in a woodstove is ~ 1200*f whereas a gassifier claims the flame can reach 2000*f. I've tried to burn K2 intead of kerosene in old oil burner & the smoke was nasty also. An atomizer can burn k2 cleanly , not the old oil stove.
I assume if a simpler,clean, oil burner could be had, the EPA would love it & the inventor would be rich.

interesting pook, you are linking to the place i used to work for. i cant tell all the details but the oil is preheated and injected with compressed air for airation and combustion.

i have been reading this with interest, last i checked burning used motor oil was an acceptable form of recycling. past that i am not sure on the legality of a home made oil burner. i will have to give a call to my buddy there and see if i can get some better facts.

 

[pook]

http://www.woodheat.org/woodpile/in...atid=6:health-impacts-of-wood-smoke&Itemid=10 link addresses burning of dioxins from wood & similar to oil dioxins. 1/2 way down the page is a comparison of EPA & conventional woodstoves pertaining to burn rates.

 

[logbutcher]

De-brief and sum up:

Used motor oil IS legal in the North East, here in Maine it IS recycled as heating fuel for Recycling Burners. Recycle centers, landfills, a.k.a. "dumps", all take used oil for burning. Many small to large commercial shops such as vehicle mechanics' garages use used oil for heating here.

Bunker oil is the low low grade of petroleum that comes out of refineries. It is nasty stuff, so heavy that it has to be warmed before using in northern regions' ships. Bunker or #2 oil is used universally on ships (except nukes). For those who know, most of the CO2 in the globe/earth is from bunker run shipping.

End. You need to know no more.:notrolls2:

JMNSHFO

 

[pook]

Modern municipal incinerator designs include a high temperature zone, where the flue gas is ensured to sustain a temperature above 850 °C (1,560 °F) for at least 2 seconds before it is cooled down. They are equipped with auxiliary heaters to ensure this at all times. These are often fueled by oil, and normally only active for a very small fraction of the time.'= wikipedia sez about european dioxin incineration

 

[Ambull]

For those who know, most of the CO2 in the globe/earth is from bunker run shipping.
JMNSHFO

?
CO2 is the desired by product of burning any form of carbon energy. The statement suggests that bunker oil is the number one form of energy in the world. Not only that for it to be "most," it would be bigger than all other forms combined. You may want to check your source on that one.

 

[pook]

De-brief and sum up:

Used motor oil IS legal in the North East, here in Maine it IS recycled as heating fuel for Recycling Burners. Recycle centers, landfills, a.k.a. "dumps", all take used oil for burning. Many small to large commercial shops such as vehicle mechanics' garages use used oil for heating here.

Bunker oil is the low low grade of petroleum that comes out of refineries. It is nasty stuff, so heavy that it has to be warmed before using in northern regions' ships. Bunker or #2 oil is used universally on ships (except nukes). For those who know, most of the CO2 in the globe/earth is from bunker run shipping.

End. You need to know no more.:notrolls2:

JMNSHFO

LOLO!~ 5% CO2 is manmade 95% is from rotting vegetation
:deadhorse:

 

[Ambull]

LOLO!~ 5% CO2 is manmade 95% is from rotting vegetation
:deadhorse:

I thought it was something like that......

Number one CO2 producer is bacteria......

 

[Whitespider]

OK pook,
I checked out your link and read it. Did you read all of it?
Who's argument were you trying to support, yours or mine?

 

[pook]

OK pook,
I checked out your link and read it. Did you read all of it?
Who's argument were you trying to support, yours or mine?

I have no dog in this race but thanx for commenting.
I conclude= 1560*f for 2sec. + adequate air will burn the dioxins from wood or oil. Seems a hard firing EPA stove is most effective. Soakig the wood & burning it in non-EPA stove dont look good.