Some people

[zogger]

zogger, that's ridiculous. The county can't enact an ordinance discriminating against short brown-eyed people any more than we can discriminate against Blacks or Jews... there's something called the Fourteenth Amendment ya' know? I ain't talkin' about my rights trumping anything... heck, I ain't even talkin' about my rights. The simple fact is that New York cop wanted to take his parcel of rural Iowa land and turn it into a residential area... it ain't zoned for residential!!! He can't do that unless the county allows an exception!!! We, the people of the county, allow for exceptions to zoning "rule" or "law" all the time (for example the farmer selling his nephew the less than 10 acre lot I talked about)... we're fair minded people. The simple fact is that New York cop couldn't "develop" his land into suburbia because the land ain't zoned for it, so he had to take it to the board to be considered for exception... and the county elected not to grant this particular exception for a lot of reasons, some of which were environmental impacts. It ain't like we made a new rule just for him... it's just that we elected not to allow the exception of zoning law for this particular purpose. Heck man, some counties don't even have an exception process... but we like to think we're a bit more understanding than that.

C'mon man, this county don't have a public water system or a public waste disposal system. Putting in a residential area means drilling multiple wells right next to multiple septic systems... and it just don't work that way. What about law enforcement, fire, and whatnot... cripes man, most of our first response people are volunteer. I could go on-and-on... but what's the point? You've already decided we're a bunch of selfish pricks anyway.

It isn't just ya'all over there at all, it is the bulk of the nation lost it. It is similar here with stuff that violates born with rights. The collective "we" lost personal freedoms and born with rights decades/generations ago, chipping away at it, bit by bit by bit. It can be tiny ionconsequential things, or big whoppers, but it all adds up.

Incosequential, you read about things like this, various "laws", some burg decides joe blows flag isn't allowed, or it is "too big" or something. some place disallows a garden because it is in the front yard...whoppers, how abouty 100th anniversary of losing true Constitutional money this year.

To me, property rights advocate, I don't care if someone wants to put an apple orchard in downtown big city, if they own the land and want to, or conversely, put in a neighborhood someplace so people can have a place to live, or have a farm, or a factory.

Once you start going down that road and not allowing freedoms that harm no one, eventually, it comes back to bite ya.

edit: I guess I want to add a personal note, as the denied subdivision got to me.

That's the best place I lived as a kid, small subdivision way out in the country, built on some acres that an old farmer sold to a contractor. With those "rules" in place, this kid here wouldn't have had a place in the country to live in and grow up in. Both my folks had no interest in big acreage or farming, they both were kids on farms during the depression and only had bad memories of extreme poverty. But..they knew country living with a better economy was good for kids, so despite a long commute my dad had to do, they got one of those lots and house out in farm country.

I loved it, hated it when we lived in town. I even worked for that old farmer in the summers as I grew up. If the local "zoning" hadn't allowed it, well....

 

[Whitespider]

zogger, we have areas in the county, outside city limits that are zoned for residential, just like the area you grew up in... subdivisions. Before an area can be zoned for residential it has to (at a minimum) be reachable/serviceable by a public sewage treatment system. That puts them relatively close to a city, or township... but the largest city in this county has a population of only around 7000, so you don't haf'ta be very far out to be "livin' in farm country". Standing on Main Street, in any town in this county, you can walk to a farm field in less time than it takes to fill the gas tank in your pickup... even the town dwellers are darn near "country folk" 'round here. When I last "lived in town", 35 years ago, one side of my yard was bordered by a farm field and back was bordered by the river... I could throw an empty beer can across and out of the city limits in two directions from my yard. There's a reason for that sewage system zoning rule, ya' can't put 30 septic systems on 20 acres. Really, ya' shouldn't put two septic systems on one acre... although occasionally the county will make exceptions. Actually one septic system/drain field per 10 acres is the accepted general rule... just one of the many reasons for the the 10 acre "rule" in rural-zoned land. The reason you can't take a piece of your farm land and develop it into suburbia (without an exception granted by the county) is, the land simply won't support it without people getting sick from their own filth... and likely making my family sick in the process also. It's the same way with water wells... ya' just can't poke too many holes in the ground too close together. In those residential-zoned rural subdivisions each well is shared by to or three homes to limit the number of holes. We do no have public water and sewage systems "out in the county" like some rural areas with higher populations.

 

[blades]

Just a note there was a time say back in the 50's even into the 60's where subdivisons, were set up with everyone poken holes for water on their 1/3acre or larger and having some type of septic system out back. On real small lots just a big holding tank that has to be pumped every so often. Rules have changed over the years. There are 2 sections a couple blocks from me that is on city sewer but each dwelling has its own well. On the other side of the ravine from me every place on that block ( about a mile long) back in the 60's had well out front and septic drain field out back, bulk of the lots were a minimum of 3/4 acre. All been converted now to city services. A home I owned ( well me & the mortage co.) built in 59 well out front septic in back 1 acre lot, when the village installed sewer ya had to hook up to it ( not cheap) cut the septic off and fill in or remove the tank. Still had my well until 2001, then forced to hook up to city water ( more $$$$$) and seal off well. Kinda sucks cause I never ran out of water ( 192 ft deep ) but the darn village wells were always having problems. Place I have now has always been on city services.

 

[Fifelaker]

Just stole this from MGA in the WTF thread. You need some of these...

 

[srb08]

Just stole this from MGA in the WTF thread. You need some of these...

I wish I'd of had some of those a few months ago.
I wonder if it would have made a difference or if the witch would have ignored it and proceeded on, secure in the fact that her wishes would trump all else.

 

[513yj]

zogger, that's ridiculous. The county can't enact an ordinance discriminating against short brown-eyed people any more than we can discriminate against Blacks or Jews... there's something called the Fourteenth Amendment ya' know? I ain't talkin' about my rights trumping anything... heck, I ain't even talkin' about my rights. The simple fact is that New York cop wanted to take his parcel of rural Iowa land and turn it into a residential area... it ain't zoned for residential!!! He can't do that unless the county allows an exception!!! We, the people of the county, allow for exceptions to zoning "rule" or "law" all the time (for example the farmer selling his nephew the less than 10 acre lot I talked about)... we're fair minded people. The simple fact is that New York cop couldn't "develop" his land into suburbia because the land ain't zoned for it, so he had to take it to the board to be considered for exception... and the county elected not to grant this particular exception for a lot of reasons, some of which were environmental impacts. It ain't like we made a new rule just for him... it's just that we elected not to allow the exception of zoning law for this particular purpose. Heck man, some counties don't even have an exception process... but we like to think we're a bit more understanding than that.

C'mon man, this county don't have a public water system or a public waste disposal system. Putting in a residential area means drilling multiple wells right next to multiple septic systems... and it just don't work that way. What about law enforcement, fire, and whatnot... cripes man, most of our first response people are volunteer. I could go on-and-on... but what's the point? You've already decided we're a bunch of selfish pricks anyway.

Contradictory to your previous post, I live east of the Mississippi but it's the same here. Some guy around here ran into some money and cleaned up his junky yard, ran for township board and is making a stink about people having too many cars on their property and having it zoned or an ordnance enacted for vehicle limits. Hypocrisy at it's finest is having trash all over and then trying to pretend it never happened. Well, it didn't fly because you can't make rules in a township without the consent of the constituents. One blessing here is it drops about 4 feet of idiot repellent every winter or this beautiful place would be filled with more idiots than we already have.

 

[Saddle Mander]

She had built this weekend place to escape civilization ..... She suggested I get a better job so I could afford electric heat, like the rest of the civilized world.

(I didn't read 13 of these 14 pages. I'm probably not the first one to point this out.)

 

[srb08]

(I didn't read 13 of these 14 pages. I'm probably not the first one to point this out.)

I didn't catch it................and I wrote it.

 

[blades]

Guess she hasn't figured out what fixed income means.
The only thing fixed with the utility companies is raising the rates every quarter.
Heck around here I even get charged a percentage of my bill to pay for deadbeats & most of them take home more in government handouts than I make.

 

[kennyl70]

Sorry for your slicker problems SR.
I seen to get the good ones so I havent had your problem.

 

[Justsaws]

I didn't catch it................and I wrote it.

I did not read much past the first page, having said that here is what I have known to happen.

If the person using commercial equipment to produce a product for sale, barter and/or profit is doing so at a residence zoned as residential and the people who file the civil suit against them bought their residential property with the knowledge of having non-commercial neighbors the person making the noise has not faired well, in more ways than one.

If the property is zoned as a specific type of commercial property and a different type of commerce is taking place they have not faired well.

I think it is refered to as the right to peace or some such thing, civil injunction. If the people can prove that the offence has diminished their properties value or purpose and they had no way of knowing that the offence would be occurring then it always went forward, beyond that....

By the way, at one of the places that I used to work noise suppression devices such as mufflers and any other OEM suppression devices had to be in proper working order, compliant with zoning limits and that was a commercial property where the work done was as specified.

 

[mtfallsmikey]

I did not read much past the first page, having said that here is what I have known to happen.

If the person using commercial equipment to produce a product for sale, barter and/or profit is doing so at a residence zoned as residential and the people who file the civil suit against them bought their residential property with the knowledge of having non-commercial neighbors the person making the noise has not faired well, in more ways than one.

If the property is zoned as a specific type of commercial property and a different type of commerce is taking place they have not faired well.

I think it is refered to as the right to peace or some such thing, civil injunction. If the people can prove that the offence has diminished their properties value or purpose and they had know way of knowing that the offence would be occurring then it always went forward, beyond that....

By the way, at one of the places that I used to work noise suppression devices such as mufflers and any other OEM suppression devices had to be in proper working order, compliant with zoning limits and that was a commercial property where the work done was as specified.

Maybe the term you're lookin for is "Quiet enjoyment"

 

[srb08]

I did not read much past the first page, having said that here is what I have known to happen.

If the person using commercial equipment to produce a product for sale, barter and/or profit is doing so at a residence zoned as residential and the people who file the civil suit against them bought their residential property with the knowledge of having non-commercial neighbors the person making the noise has not faired well, in more ways than one.

If the property is zoned as a specific type of commercial property and a different type of commerce is taking place they have not faired well.

I think it is refered to as the right to peace or some such thing, civil injunction. If the people can prove that the offence has diminished their properties value or purpose and they had know way of knowing that the offence would be occurring then it always went forward, beyond that....

By the way, at one of the places that I used to work noise suppression devices such as mufflers and any other OEM suppression devices had to be in proper working order, compliant with zoning limits and that was a commercial property where the work done was as specified.

I'm zoned agricultural.
I'm not cutting commercially.

 

[johncinco]

I think I found your sign.

 

[Whitespider]

Contradictory to your previous post, I live east of the Mississippi but it's the same here.

Yes, I'm aware some places east of the Mississippi River are much like here... but more areas are not than are.
My "west of the Mississippi" comment was meant as a sort'a like a generalization... not as an absolute. I have friends that live across the river in Illinois, he offered me a pretty good job with his company a few years ago. Now I don't know how every county in that state operates, but after checking state/local laws, regulations and whatnot, I declined... I won't live were government believes I need to be protected from myself. Man... at the time, a citizen of the state could not legally carry a self-defense weapon... period!! (I believe that may have changed, but still not like here.) No friggin' thank you!! I won't live where my own state won't trust me... I simply can't understand why anyone would.

 

[Justsaws]

I'm zoned agricultural.
I'm not cutting commercially.

Not much they could do about it around here as long as the noise is associated with work done, if you are just standing around running your saws for hours, reving engines, playing loud music, shooting firearms, etc. then they might be able to take a run at you for intimidation or menacing or whatever it is called. In that case usually the Sheriff is involved, it still ends up as a civil injunction though.

Typically the neighbor is supposed to ask for consideration, such as turn down the music, turn off the saw after 6pm, no shooting after dark, etc.

Document the conversations and the offense.

Call the Sheriff, register complaints.

File for a civil injunction. Go to court. Roll the dice.

 

[Hddnis]

Not much they could do about it around here as long as the noise is associated with work done, if you are just standing around running your saws for hours, reving engines, playing loud music, shooting firearms, etc. then they might be able to take a run at you for intimidation or menacing or whatever it is called. In that case usually the Sheriff is involved, it still ends up as a civil injunction though.

Typically the neighbor is supposed to ask for consideration, such as turn down the music, turn off the saw after 6pm, no shooting after dark, etc.

Document the conversations and the offense.

Call the Sheriff, register complaints.

File for a civil injunction. Go to court. Roll the dice.

I know it's a really long thread and takes a bit of time to read; you might be interested to read how all of your suggestions with the exception of the last one have already been followed and how they've played out.

I find that sometimes skipping all the posts, except those by the OP, help to get though a thread faster when I just want to know how the story goes.




Mr. HE

 

[Guswhit]

Walt, let give you an example of how it works...
Recently one of the local land owners wanted to sell a small chunk of his property to one of his nephew's, who wanted to build a house on it. Because the chunk of land being sold was less than 10 acres, the County Board sent out letters to any property owner who had property adjoining the land... not just adjoining the land being sold, but any owner of land adjoining the entire farm of several hundred acres (if your land is across the road, it's still considered as adjoining). If any single one of us would have protested the sale it couldn't go through... if the chunk had been 10 acres or more there wouldn't have been any issue. We are zoned rural, not residential... and the 10 acre rule is how it works, it's how rural zoning works, it's how rural land is protected from suburbia. We run the county, not politicians.

So let me ask you another question about this hypothetical one you describe. Lets say your neighbor "Joe" decides to sell off a chunk of land that happens to be adjoining yours that has had no fence on the boundary line in years, no one is running any kind of livestock on any of the land now or in the proposed usage for the future. What do "you" happen to think about the new owner when you receive a certified letter explaining to "you" that a fence is going to be constructed and you will be responsible for half? Just saying that "this is how rural zoning really works".

 

[Whitespider]

So let me ask you another question about this hypothetical one you describe. Lets say your neighbor "Joe" decides to sell off a chunk of land that happens to be adjoining yours that has had no fence on the boundary line in years, no one is running any kind of livestock on any of the land now or in the proposed usage for the future. What do "you" happen to think about the new owner when you receive a certified letter explaining to "you" that a fence is going to be constructed and you will be responsible for half? Just saying that "this is how rural zoning really works".

It's not quite that simple.

1. All "legal" partition fences are jointly owned, and maintenance is a joint responsibility.
2. The neighbor can't just put a fence along one side of his property (my side for example) and compel me to build or pay for half of it, the fence must be an enclosure and all other adjoining property owners must also be compelled (if the enclosure extends to their property line).
3. The fence must be a "legal" fence by Iowa code... decorative fences, such as most privacy type, split rail, and whatnot do not qualify.
4. If I am compelled, I do not have to pay for half his fence... I can simply elect to build my half of the fence and it doesn't need to be the same style or type as long as it fits the description of a "legal" fence (although, if livestock is involved there may be certain other requirements)... it don't have to be pretty, just fit the description of "legal".
5. Any disputes are resolved through "Fence Viewers"... depending on purpose and/or circumstances I may not be compelled to contribute at all. In other words, my neighbor cannot decide to put up a fence simply because he wants one (i.e., like your example) and compel me to contribute half... he must show a valid purpose or need for the "legal" fence (repairs and replacement for an existing fence, if needed, is another issue), such as habitual trespassing by livestock (from either property).

Actually this just happened between a couple neighbors by dad last summer. One of them wanted to put up a woven wire fence to keep the other neighbors dog off his property... but his planned fence wasn't "legal" or an enclosure, so he couldn't compel the other to contribute.

 

[Justsaws]

I know it's a really long thread and takes a bit of time to read; you might be interested to read how all of your suggestions with the exception of the last one have already been followed and how they've played out.

I find that sometimes skipping all the posts, except those by the OP, help to get though a thread faster when I just want to know how the story goes.




Mr. HE

TL;dr