spark, gas, compression, but still won't start, what next??

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Well, a saw with a good piston, compression, and no fuel, will roar to life when primed for a second or two, so the ignition is where I would explore.

If you are sure the fuel is good, and the saw isn't flooded, etc.
 
Here are a few pics of the piston. One to show the ring, another the skirt, and the third is a closeup of the skirt to show some extremely fine scratches.

From a distance the piston surface looks good to me, but I have no idea how perfect it has to be for optimum compression. The scratches are barely visible, but are there, so I suspect them to be primarily cosmetic, no? The closeup shows they are maybe not quite as deep as the machining lines on the piston.

when I pulled the muffler it had more gas in it than the fuel tank. At some point would that keep the saw from starting? I'm drying it out now, and will try again after its dried out.

I've been suspecting a marginal coil all along, and so far I'm not seeing any indication of fuel delivery or compression problems, so the coil/timing are still the chief suspects. I'm going to call the guy on Monday and see if he has either a) a spare coil to swap out, or b) a conclusive way to test my coil. If not, I think I'll gamble the $60 on a new coil from Bailey's and see what happens. None of the repair shops around here I've talked to even have a coil in stock, its a non-returnable special order.

Regarding muffler re-attachment, is it a good idea to put a dab of anti-seize on the bolts?

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Better dry out the crankcase as well, position it so that fuel can drain out the spark plug hole or exhaust port. Sounds like a stuck decomp and a lot of pulling completely flooded the saw.
 
Better dry out the crankcase as well, position it so that fuel can drain out the spark plug hole or exhaust port. Sounds like a stuck decomp and a lot of pulling completely flooded the saw.

OK, doing that now, seeing fuel dribble out of hole.

I don't know about the decomp valve itself, but the hose that connects it to the crankcase was cracked. When I tried to pull it off it just sheared and broke in half, so I'd guess it was probably pretty well cracked, but didn't look at it prior to pulling it off. Now have the decomp valve replaced with the cylinder plug, and have rigged a temporary hose blockage on the crankcase attachment end, so I think the cylinder is now sealed properly.

What I'm hoping may have happened is this: Decomp was leaking through crack in hose, valve itself, or both. I did notice that the pull resistance was starting to get a little weaker than usual, but don't run the saw often enough to be sure I wasn't just imagining it. In the process of trying to start it with low compression from the leak I flooded it. Then after fixing the compression leak, it was already flooded, so it still wouldn't start. If I fix the flooding problem, it may just start now. I'll keep my fingers crossed.
 
cityboy -
if you have the time, can you snap a couple of good pics of
1.carb side view including where it bolts up to the cylinder.
2.decompression valve (now a plug) and hose you mention.
3. Also can you post info from or pic of engine tag ?
Thanks
 
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cityboy -
if you have the time, can you snap a couple of good pics of
1.carb side view including where it bolts up to the cylinder.
2.decompression valve (now a plug) and hose you mention.
3. Also can you post info from or pic of engine tag ?
Thanks

Here's the carb top/left/right pictures. I know its dirty, didn't bother blowing it off with compressed air but I probably should. The arrows on the top photo are something that I'm wondering about. What is that open nipple for? There's also a slot in the plastic where a second hose could be routed, perhaps to that nipple. I'm pretty sure there's never been a hose there, or I would have seen the loose dangling hose at some point.

The decomp pic is also there, the rigged plug is a piece of fuel line that's very snug on the nipple coming out of the crankcase, and that's a nail plugging the other end of the hose, also very snug.

by engine tag do you mean the serial number plate? If so the info on that is only partially visible in one of the pics, here's the complete info:

965 55 04-00
03 4300476 (I think this means 2003, week 43, serial number 476)

I also finally did a compression test (thanks to the guy who suggested borrowing tools from AutoZone) and it only went to 125psi. The ambient temp was about 85F, so it might do a little better in the morning with cooler, denser air. I think that's a bit on the low end, but should be sufficient to run, shouldn't it??

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OK, doing that now, seeing fuel dribble out of hole.

I don't know about the decomp valve itself, but the hose that connects it to the crankcase was cracked. When I tried to pull it off it just sheared and broke in half, so I'd guess it was probably pretty well cracked, but didn't look at it prior to pulling it off. Now have the decomp valve replaced with the cylinder plug, and have rigged a temporary hose blockage on the crankcase attachment end, so I think the cylinder is now sealed properly.

What I'm hoping may have happened is this: Decomp was leaking through crack in hose, valve itself, or both. I did notice that the pull resistance was starting to get a little weaker than usual, but don't run the saw often enough to be sure I wasn't just imagining it. In the process of trying to start it with low compression from the leak I flooded it. Then after fixing the compression leak, it was already flooded, so it still wouldn't start. If I fix the flooding problem, it may just start now. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

Cityboy,
glad to hear the Autozone tip worked out for ya. Im a little concerned about that low of a compression. It should pop but it also is low. 135-155 is a normal ring wear range. I understand you don't have any others to confirm compression guage operation with. Im also surprised to see the shape of your piston knowing you are showing 125psi. I suspected some exhaust scuffing but see none in your pics.

I understand you have a IPL for the saw and not a service manual ??? Im not understanding where you say that the "line connecting the decomp" was cracked. Im thinking you meant the impulse line and if you blocked that off you found a problem if not THE problem. Does that hose you describe connect the carb to the crankcase? If it does it needs to be replaced. Im thinking I am not understanding what you are describing. Maybe some more pics ? definately one of the impulse hose.

stay with us we'll get you through this.
 
Cityboy,
glad to hear the Autozone tip worked out for ya. Im a little concerned about that low of a compression. It should pop but it also is low. 135-155 is a normal ring wear range. I understand you don't have any others to confirm compression guage operation with. Im also surprised to see the shape of your piston knowing you are showing 125psi. I suspected some exhaust scuffing but see none in your pics.

I understand you have a IPL for the saw and not a service manual ??? Im not understanding where you say that the "line connecting the decomp" was cracked. Im thinking you meant the impulse line and if you blocked that off you found a problem if not THE problem. Does that hose you describe connect the carb to the crankcase? If it does it needs to be replaced. Im thinking I am not understanding what you are describing. Maybe some more pics ? definately one of the impulse hose.

stay with us we'll get you through this.

Yeah, considering the shape of the piston I was expecting a better number also. I used a small bungee to hold the throttle open, made sure the choke was off, so I'm pretty sure I was getting good cylinder filling.

I do have the service manual that's commonly available online.

This saw has the auto-decomp feature, which involves a valve coming off the side of the cylinder (where the hex bolt head is now in the picture). That valve has a banjo-fitting on the end with a hose that attaches to a nipple coming out of the crankcase on the other end. The hose was cracked, or at least it came off in two pieces when I tried to extract it from the nipple on the crankcase.

The impulse line isn't loose as far as I can tell, but haven't done much but tug on it with a screwdriver to make sure it resisted that. Also, I'm getting fuel like crazy, so it would appear to be doing its job.

At this point I'm kinda ruling out the ignition timing being off because if anything happened like a twisted crank, or flywheel slipped on crank, the saw would have probably died right then, but the last time I used it nothing unusual happened and I shut it off normally. I could go back to AutoZone and get the flywheel puller, but I really don't suspect that for now.

What seems like the most likely cause now is a weak spark, that's something that I can't rule for sure.

If I'm getting so much fuel that the saw is flooding, I'm guessing that I would at least get it to start, but then maybe run bad, would you agree? If so, I'm going to rule out fuel problems for now too.

How about crankcase leaks through the crank seals? Would that prevent a saw from starting, or just make it run erratic once it started? I'm guessing that would also result in low fuel flow because it can't draw enough crankcase vacuum to pulse the impulse line.

Any and all answers would be much appreciated at this time because if everything else can be ruled out except for the weak coil, I might just gamble the $60 on a new one.
 
City,
autozone will "rent" you a mityvac pressure tester too. Might want to check that out for peace of mind. Are you getting any "pop" at all ? maybe dry it out again and just drop a eyedropper of fresh mix (new gas and new oil too 50:1) and see if it pops. Im wondering if the metering guage on the carb is bent or the diaphram is stiff.

you do know this stuff is like a great murder mystery for us. We can't wait to find out "who dunnit" !!!!
 
Now I am getting pissed...... Dry the phacker out, hell mail the turd to me........ This is getting silly. I will fix the dam thing for free, you buy the part, pay the shipping.

But for sanity's sake, dry out the saw!!!!!
 
Or buy a mity vac, pressure tester, compression gauge, coil tester, multimeter, coil, flywheel, seals.........

Then dry out the saw and go through the carb!!!! And throw out that old fuel mix!!!!!!!
 
You have proven at least 4 times that you are not following any of the sane responses here, so go ahead and chase the rest....

Buy a full leakdown kit, a coil occiliscope, a voodoo witch's chicken carcasse, a new coil, carb, flywheel..... Go for it!!!!
 
I am following this trying to make heads/tails out of it. The one glaring thing I see is "the hose going from the compression release(or decomp as he calls it) to the crankcase". There is no such thing in a saw that is functioning correctly. I think the blue end of the compression release popped off and somehow the IMPULSE LINE got snubbed off onto it. The op needs to identify the fuel line, impulse line and, if it has one, the tank vent line. No impulse line, no fuel pump!
Additionally the lines MUST feed to the correct place in the carburetor. Mike
 
No matter either way, but if the OP would dry out the saw completely, then the dry saw would fire up, then die, with a prime of good fuel.....

If not, then there is at least 1 other problem.............

No impulse lines, seals, leeches, whatever...

If the compression is good, which the pics indicate, the unit has spark, the flywheel key is good, but the muffler has fuel dribbling out, then that
is a clue.............
 
Early 357's had a junk auto decomp set up. Very prone to failure, they did use a hose to the cylinder base which needs to be capped off and clamped with a proper cap and clamp. Hey City, you asked for help for a simple problem and got good advise. If you follow it, you will fix the saw.
 

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