Splitter Problem-Filter Blew(Pic)

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michigander

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47b8dc07b3127cceb6098d2a477c00000026100AZsWbFi2YuGPA

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Today I tested the splitter out a little more, and things were going good. On the easy pieces it would stay in the higher mode and split them fast. When i would put a bigger piece in it would shift down to the low speed for a couple inches, then speed back up. The cycle time was about 14 seconds, which seemed good. I found a bigger piece of wood, as seen in picture. I moved lever to split, but it just seemed to bog out. I speeded engine up a little and moved lever again. It was a hard piece of oak or cherry, dont know. The cylinder was not moving, when I released the handle on the control valve the filter blew, as seen in pic. I took a couple pic's to post online to ask you guys if this has ever happened to you. I think the pressure built up in the cylinder and when I released handle all the oil couldn't go thru the filter quick enough. The orignal filter was a 25 micron. I went to auto parts and bought a 10 micron filter. They said this filter would flow more. Am I on the right track? The splitter had only been running about 10 minutes, maybe the oil wasn't real warm yet. Any advice would be appreciated. Luckily the stream of fluid was away from me. I would have been drenched. It sprayed about 20 feet. :jawdrop:
 
i'm sure you are aware there is a directional valve in the filter mount...right? the oil must flow in that direction, or *bang*...it'll bust out.

the relief valve is there in case the filter gets too clogged and the oil can't pass, then the valve opens and the oil by-passes the filter.

it could be just a defective tank on the filter, or you have too much pressure build-up inside your tank. (the filters aren't designed to handle high pressure loads) how is the vent on your tank? is it free and clear and large enoug?
 
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Uh, is that filter on the pressure side, or the return side?

Surely it's not, but if it's on the pressure side............well, you know.
 
My first guess is air in the system.

-Flow through the filter is the same whether moving or stalled, because pump flow is constant and it is going across the relief valve to tank while the cylinder is stalled. When you go to retract, flow is higher than pump because of the cylinder area difference. More comes out the closed side than is going in the rod side. That is maybe 25-30% more in most cylinders, usually not an issue unless the filter is way undersized.

-When you first move the lever from extend to retract there can be a big flow and pressure surge. When at 2500 psi and stalled, the oil is compressed, the hoses are ballooned up, and the circuit charges up like a big capacitor. This blips through to return when the valve is first shifted to retract. Not much flow, just in cubic inches or less, but very fast. Usually no problems, but if there is extra air it makes more flow surge and could be a problem.

-If this was a first startup I would expect air in the cylinder that got compressed like an accumulator. When you shifted the valve to retract, it sends a huge flow spike downstream. Since you had cycled a few logs that is less likely. Are the ports on the cylinder up high where the air should have been purged out by then? Or might there have been trapped air in there?

-Do you see aerated fluid in the tank? If you have a suction line leak sucking air, the aerated fluid can compress in the cylinder just like above. When you shift to retract and release the pressure it can surge the filter.

-Size of lines vs. the flow. Try a gauge on the tank line of the valve before the filter and see what the pressure restriction is.

-Direction in & out, as already noted, else the pleats blow outward and collapse and blow the can.

-Bypass valve in the head? Is it set too high? Usually not an issue as they are only designed for one or two settings of the spring. However, if the filter is installed backwards, the bypass valve won’t work, and when the pleats blow outward and plug, there is no bypass valve to function.

-If you have paper element filter, and water in the oil, the paper absorbs water (which is good to take out very small amounts of water) but it swells and closes off the pore openings. Pressure drop goes way up. Normally no worries as the filter goes into bypass, but if the filter is backwards with no bypass, it can plug/collapse outward/blow housing.

-25 micron filter GENERALLY would have less filtering and dirt holding but lower pressure drop. 10 micron is smaller openings and better filtration but maybe more pressure drop. Paper has more pressure drop, less dirt holding and less filtration than the newer glass fibers. I would use 10u. 25u is ok but crude and not desirable. And I would find a new filter supplier who doesn’t give you bs.


let us know what you find
kcj
 
Kevin J, Should the fittings for the cylinder be on top? They are on the side. Will the air work out, if they are on the side. It is pretty well a new splitter and only had about 15 minutes of splitting on it. My vent is a little on the small side. It has a 3/8 inch pipe thread fitting. Made for a hydraulic lift on delivery trucks. I did install the 10 micron filter and used the splitter, it worked OK. But I didn't do any huge pieces like before. It stalled the ram and when I moved lever to neutral, it blew. I will check vent tomorrow and hose routing on cylinder. Thanks!
 
I do not see the need for a filter

as long as everything is clean on the initial build and fill. The fill /vent cap has a fiber filter in it.. Where is anything foreign going to get into the system? Our old splitter is over 25 years old, never had a filter never will have a filter., If a cylinder packing were to fail it should just fall to the bottom of the tank. And besides you will notice it failed real quick like anyhow.
 
the vent is probably fine, it only should have to deal with the rod volume. But if there is compressed air, it has to go out the vent real fast. however,if the pressure got high enough due to plugged vent, the tank would be a sausage at maybe 5 to 10 psi, well before the filter blew.

Cyl could have a lot of air in it even with splitting some logs. I can see the hose on the side now. I was thinking ports on top, then it would be purgedout. .

remove the breather. Un pin cylinder fixed end. turn it so ports are on top, and cycle a few times with no load. See if you gets lots of noise or air coming out the tank, May foam up and come out breather then. Then put cylinder and breather back and go to work. Eventually the air disolves in the oil but it takes a really long time.

Was the cylinder at full extend under pressure when you reversed it?
There was probably lots of air above that point on the closed side of the cylidner, so it compressed to 2500 psi and stored an extra gallon of oil, When that is discharged to tank port, might have 5 or 10x normal flow just for an instance. (fractions of a second, but enough to blow)

k
 
Kevin, The cylinder was only out about 8 inches when it was against a tough log. It stalled out and when I went to neutral it blew. I did not go to retract. I will unpin cylinder tomorrow and vent out all of air. That makes sense.

Eric, If this happens again. I will take the filter out. I welded the reservoir up and took care to clean it out before I put fluid in. The suction is about an inch off the bottom, so in case something did get in it wouldn't go into inlet.
 
If you didn't go into retract, the cyl air would not get back to tank line. I need to think about that some more. do the venting though just in case.

oh, and check the suction line carefully for air leaks. They can suck air but not drip oil. If the pressurized oil between pump and valve had compressed air, that would get vented to tank when you go back to neutral and cause the same thing.

I rented a splitter that had moisture in oil, took it anyway against my instinct. Blew filter and found out it had been installed backwards from factory new for almost ayear. the water in the paper caused theproblem. rather than give me free rent for finding and fixing their problem, the guy dind't charge me rental time for the hour+ I spend chasing parts and fixing. how generous of him......

k
 
Filter base outlet hose

The filter base outlet hose should be a large low pressure line with no obstructions to the tank. (under the oil level) It looks like you have a small high pressure line,why?, as there should be little pressure if you have a large enough line. I use 1 inch hose with a 16 GPM pump using ATF on a 4.5 inch cylinder and a 2 inch rod.
 
Timbrjackrussel, I bought my hoses from Tractor Supply. It is a 1/2inch pressure hose with the fitting to go to 3/4 on each end. The return is piped into the top of the tank, but flows thru a pipe to just off the bottom to not get air into the fluid.I dont know if the filter blew, because the fluid couldn't get thru it fast enough or as you say. The hose could be to small to get rid of the pressure. I'm really thinking about getting rid of this filter, if this happens again. I think it is a weak link in the system. Thanks for your help! I hope to be able to help members back someday.:)
 
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Timbrjackrussel, I bought my hoses from Tractor Supply. It is a 1/2inch pressure hose with the fitting to go to 3/4 on each end. The return is piped into the top of the tank, but flows thru a pipe to just off the bottom to not get air into the fluid.I dont know if the filter blew, because the fluid couldn't get thru it fast enough or as you say. The hose could be to small to get rid of the pressure. I'm really thinking about getting rid of this filter, if this happens again. I think it is a weak link in the system. Thanks for your help! I hope to be able to help members back someday.:)

By the pics, your return line is too small(From the filter housing to the tank). Fluid can't escape fast enough. Your right though about one thing (The filter it's self is the weak link.) I've blown several on cars that only reach 100psi. Oh and just check to make sure the direction of the filter housing is headed the right way. I know it sounds like only a moron could do it but it happens.
 
Filter return

My first thought was, How big is the filter return line, When you explained how it blew, Backing of the push cycle, and relased the built up psi, bang, you blew the filter, I wood never build a hyd system without a filter,.period,.If your filter is giving you problems,.you didnt set it up right,.E,J,
 
as long as everything is clean on the initial build and fill. The fill /vent cap has a fiber filter in it.. Where is anything foreign going to get into the system? Our old splitter is over 25 years old, never had a filter never will have a filter., If a cylinder packing were to fail it should just fall to the bottom of the tank. And besides you will notice it failed real quick like anyhow.

THAT"S AMAZING! But I have seen the same on another mans splitter,He didn't ever look to change the filter because he did'nt know. And it was at least 20yrs old. And the machine ran well.Some have better luck.But thats not why I backed off from buying it ..I did'nt want to change the luck and me buy all them parts..LOL...
 
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47b8dc07b3127cceb6098d16474000000025100AZsWbFi2YuGPA


The orignal filter was a 25 micron. I went to auto parts and bought a 10 micron filter. They said this filter would flow more. Am I on the right track?

25 micron is less restrictive than 10 micron. Maybe your parts man doesn't know?
 
Timbrjackrussel, Yes my filter man at the auto parts steered me in the wrong direction. Is that return line just 1'' heater hose? Right now I have pressure hose on it. Let me know. Thanks! You guys are very helpful!
 

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