Splitter project help

[Millman]

Hi guys, Millman here. I need some help troubleshooting the infamous Beast.
We got a new 16gpm pump, new 20gal tank and new fittings and hoses. put it all together and it split wood. The only problem was the engine died. Oil everywhere. So we got a new 9 hp engine. Re- connected everything and now it goes in and out real nice but there is not enough pressure in the cylinder to split wood. The only other thing we changed was the connections on the control valve just to make the handle operate the way the cylinder was acting. Pull to extend and push to retract. Could that be the problem? Do the ports on the control valve handle different pressures? This in not a log splitter valve but something off a dump truck. could the cylinder packing be shot? we haven't seen any oil on the cylinder. I bow to you oh gods of wood splitters. Attached are some pictures. just look at the valve and cylinder, we have replaced everything else. Thanks.

 

[DDM]

Youve got either your pump plumbed backwards or the valve.Are you sure the In port on the valve is connected to the out side of the pump?

 

[SmokinDodge]

Are you sure the rotation of the pump and engine are the same way?

When you move the ram in and out does it make a high pitch whining sound? (possible releif valve issue)

 

[Millman]

The pump is OK, and the inlet and outlet are in the right spots. If you look at the working ports on the valve, we changed the orientation. Could the valve be bypassing the pressure? If one port was for specifically for higher loads, and the other was for light loads, by changing them, could I have cause my own problems? We will try to put them back the way they were originally set up. Also there is no whinning sound.

 

[DDM]

Is the valve a detent?

 

[SmokinDodge]

I was asking about the rotation of pump to the engine. You could have a Clockwise engine running a Counter Clockwise Pump or vice versa. Maybe not, just food for thought.

It might be worth getting a liquid filled pressure gauge installed and seeing what kind psi your relief valve is set at. I have one on my splitter and use it to tell when to change the filter and for diagnosis.

 

[Millman]

Well we reversed the connections on the valve. I am starting to think it's the valve, it is not a detent. It has enough pressure to split DRY wood but just dents the green stuff. (Ash) From the picture, where do I change the bypass? Also I thought about the Gage too. I think I am going to spend the $100 and get a new valve. Smokin, I would like to install the gage for but where do I install it and do you have a picture of yours? I checked the rotation, the engine rotates ccw and the pump rotates cw like it should. Thanks.

 

[Millman]

We Split Wood!!

Well it looks like we may have figured it out. One of our friends came over last night and knew where to go to do some adjustments. He first adjusted the valve, it made things a little better, but next, he adjusted the pump! He said the pump was shipped from the factory with the lowest setting. He turned it about 1/2 turn and low and behold, we started to split wood. We just have to fine tune it a little more. Any body else had to do some adjustments on the pump?

 

[Jwoods]

Millman,

Do you have a picture of the pump?

 

[Millman]

The pump is a barnes 16gpm just like in the northern catalog. We went back up tonight and adjusted the pump screw as far as it would go. It split some small green wood but not the bigger stuff, we are talking ASH and Cherry. The cylinder is 34" long, 5" bore and a 4" rod. The motor is a 9HP Robin. When we try to split the wood, the engine will bog down to the point of almost killing it. The other quirkey thing is when we retract the rod, it loads the engine more than when we extend it. I am all for spending the extra $250 for a new Cylinder and valve and be done with it.

 

[Patrick62]

The pump is a barnes 16gpm just like in the northern catalog. We went back up tonight and adjusted the pump screw as far as it would go. It split some small green wood but not the bigger stuff, we are talking ASH and Cherry. The cylinder is 34" long, 5" bore and a 4" rod. The motor is a 9HP Robin. When we try to split the wood, the engine will bog down to the point of almost killing it. The other quirkey thing is when we retract the rod, it loads the engine more than when we extend it. I am all for spending the extra $250 for a new Cylinder and valve and be done with it.

That sounds a lot like the issues I have with mine! On retract there is less displacement than on extend (it moves faster). Could this place more load on the engine?? The pump screw should be adjusting the pressure at which the pump is allowed to drop to "single stage" mode. Factory is about 500 psi. Concerning this valve, I had to adjust mine down (loosen it) atleast 1 turn from factory setting. The only other valve that you might have is a "maximum" pressure valve in the directional valve. This one will set the maximum pressure on the system. I had to adjust this one down as well.

Since my current engine is barely putting up 6 hp, I would have figured your 9hp would be heap plenty! You can place a pressure gauge anywhere in the line from pump to valve. Just make sure it is rated for atleast 2500 lbs.

-pat

 

[Millman]

The pump screw should be adjusting the pressure at which the pump is allowed to drop to "single stage" mode. Factory is about 500 psi.

So since I tightened mine, it will stay in the hi stage longer and not drop down to the lower stage untill a higher pressure is reached? It sounds like my pump might be running in the upper range all the time. Does that sound right?

 

[madbrad312]

splitter

millman what size was your old engine ? briggs\staton or techmseh? robin engines i believe are lower r.p.m then both above engines since your said it split wood before the motor blew

 

[Millman]

Pump issue????

It's an EX27 9HP that's rated at 4000 RPM. With the other engine, it only split seasoned wood. The green stuff would kill it. Also the retrun stroke would kill the old engine. The more I think about it, I think the pump is not kicking in to low gear. How do you tell if you have a bad pump?

 

[Jwoods]

Millman,

Yes it sounds as if your pump is continually running in "high gear", meaning that you are always at maximum pump flow output.

*almost all unloading valves and pressure relief valves increase pressure by clockwise rotation of the set screws. -not sure about the Barnes pump.

If there is an adjustment on your pump, start at that point. Maybe you only want 250 psi in the system, and the pump unloads, and kicks into stage 2 (high pressure/reduced flow).

Theoretically, you should be able to set the pump so that it "never" runs in stage 1 (high-flow/low-pressure). Coupled to the 9hp motor, it should split some wood.

Additional pictures of the pump set-up/valve arrangement would be nice.

There are some inherent things in your typing that causes concern.

-Oil went everywhere -loose fittings I hope?
-We haven't seen any oil in the cylinder yet.

It's much easier on the wallet to be a troubleshooter, not a parts changer.

What kind of dump-truck valve was it? Was it the hoist valve? Tailgate?

Joe

 

[Millman]

Hi Joe. Oil everywhere was from the old motor. The shaft seal went and we had oil leaking out the engine. All the fittings are fine. We put the old pump back on and ran it. This time the engine did not bog down but still not enough pressure to split wood. My neighbor who works on big graders and such is going to come over with some gages to see what pressure we are getting out of the system. We think it is now either one of 2 things. The cylinder packing is shot and the oil is bypassing the seals and going out the return or the valve pressure releif is gone and all the oil is being released byhe valve back to the tank. The Valve is a "Commercial H1320" 2 spool valve. One double acting, 1 single. it says it is a multi-use valve. I will get some new pictures tonight when we go back up. Thanks. Greg

 

[Jwoods]

Greg,

The gauges will be invaluable. To check for cylinder piston seal leakage, dead-head the cylinder on retraction, or extension. Loosen the fitting on the opposite side of the piston, and watch for oil coming out. It would take a major amount of bypass to cause problems.

Have fun.

Joe

 

[Millman]

Well I got the gage, put it inline between the pump and the valve and only read 700psi. It stoped there and so did the cylinder. I really think the bypass on the valve is shot. I also ded headed the clyinder on both retraction and extension and cracked the fittings. Very little oil if any came out so I think the cylinder is OK. New control valve coming friday. I will report then. Greg

 

[SmokinDodge]

Now that you have a known pressure, try adjusting the relief valve. Turn it a few revolutions and see if it has an impact on the pressure. It might just be set too low.

 

[Jwoods]

Hey Millman, (makes me wanna say: Hey Crabman!)

I would agree with smokindodge101, adjustment could be necessary. Since we don't know what the old dump truck settings were, it could very well be the pressure setting on the relief valve.

Your first picture of the valve on post #1 shows clearly that the relief valve is adjustable. Remove the "acorn", or covering nut, loosen jam nut, and screw in the adjusting valve clockwise. (hopefully while the cylinder is dead-headed.

This should (if everything is in working order) increase the pressure in the system.

If you get no response, remove the relief valve body, and check for dirt. -slim possibility, but strange things happen.

There may be some other things that are bad in the system.

I've seen broken internal valve castings that cause problems like this.

Joe