square chain question?

[StihlBoy440]

Hey guys I am wanting to start using square ground on my ms360 and was looking through the stihl book and notice they sell the Super L Full Skip(RSLF) and then both versions of the Super L Klassic(RSLK). What are the differences if any in these two chains aka speed of cutting, durability, ease of sharpening, etc.... and I notice with my current set up my saw cuts much faster with a nearly worn out, sharp RSF chain versus a nearly nearly RS chain is the difference in the space where the chain has been sharpened many times or just the smaller teeth. Thanks any information will be greatly appreciated and what files or motorized wheel device do you recommend to sharpen stihl square ground chain?
Mack

 

[StihlBoy440]

I obviously cant spell, I meant square chain and not scare, hey but it is Halloween anyways

 

[Billy_Bob]

The RSLF is only for .063 guage bars only.

Then the other differences are no skip between cutters, half skip, or full skip. Basically you need more "skipping" between cutters to keep the speed up and to leave space to help clean out the cuttings with longer bars.

I have a 32 inch bar and use the RSLFK - full skip chain.

For sharpening a square ground chain, use a double bevel flat file. Stihl dealers should have these or should be able to order them.

Instructions for sharpening a square ground chain are in the Oregon Maintenance and Safety Manual (link below to specific page).

Square ground filing instructions...
http://www.oregonchain.com/tech/ms_manual/ms_06.pdf

Oregon Maintenance and Safety Manual
http://www.oregonchain.com/tech/manual_maint.htm

Square Ground Chain Types Summary...
RSLF - Available in .063” gauge only - I have a .050" gauge bar.)
RSLK - no skip
RSLHK - half skip
RSLFK - full skip

 

[Billy_Bob]

You may be able to edit your post and fix the spelling in the title??? (Click on edit.)

 

[StihlBoy440]

thanks for the edit help!

 

[ShoerFast]

RS = STIHL RAPID More of a hard wood round chisle chain. Fast and smooth.

RSK = Is made for a little better chip removal, and better cut control. A little more for soft wood and long bars were you would have a chip-removal problim with RS chain.

RSLK Is Scare ground (Square ground)

RSLHK is "Half skip"

RSLFK is "Full skip" chain

http://www.stihl.us/chainsaws/types.html

 

[StihlBoy440]

what I am wanting is sort of like a race chain without paying the hundreds of dollars that some race chains cost and I have heard and read that square cuts about 20% faster, would I benefit from the full skip square, like I do using a full skip RS chain?

 

[ShoerFast]

what I am wanting is sort of like a race chain without paying the hundreds of dollars that some race chains cost and I have heard and read that square cuts about 20% faster, would I benefit from the full skip square, like I do using a full skip RS chain?

That would have a lot to do with what type of wood and bar length, if your racing, I would think that keeping the chain speed up is just half of it, as full comp will out cut any skip if the engine speed is there.

You may want to check into building your own race chain, there is a lot of "secrets" if you look for them. A lot of tricks are making the chain lighter, a skip chain would waight more per cutter then anything you could run.

Do a search here for Art Martin, just for a start, Hotsaws.com may have some ideas for you also.

 

[StihlBoy440]

thanks Shoerfast!

 

[mbopp]

Madsen's website has info on cutter types and chain sharpening:

http://www.madsens1.com/sub4.htm

 

[B_Turner]

I find that sharp rslfk does cut about 20 percent faster than rs ground round.

I recently bought a loop of Oregon 72cl and 72clx to compare directly to the square stihl. the 72cl has a smaller narrow tooth and I am going to see if it cuts any faster or slower than the wider clx and rslk.

I can tell you that the stihl chain is much sharper looking new than the Oregons which I had a dealer spin off a reel. Will do sometimings on relative performances both new and resharpened as well as some comparisons for boring. I often do end grain plunge cutting and have wondered if the narrower cl would be better for that.

I've not done any side by side comparisons on these chains before, and mostly use and am happy with the Stihl square. I've heard the Stihls are slower to grind by hand, but I have a pro sharp and touch ups are quick.

 

[StihlBoy440]

well went by my local dealer picked up 2 loops of RSLK and ordered the dual dawg and chain catch setup for my MS360, hopefully will be in by Friday, was looking at different grinders, dang they are real pricey for those Silvey's, anyone around the Tristate area(GA, SC, NC) area have one for when my chains get dull? Thanks again greatest site on the net

 

[timberwolf]

Might want to give square filing a try. Filing can make a chain just as fast, it takes a litle effort to learn how, but once you have got it about the only thing round files will be good for is cleaning out the gullets.

 

[StihlBoy440]

hey timberwolf is the stihl file part number 7010 871 0006 any count or is there better files out there?

 

[timberwolf]

Have not used the stil file that I know of, The flat file from Bailys is likely the best bet. There are lots of threads on square filing.

 

[Billy_Bob]

...I have heard and read that square cuts about 20% faster, would I benefit from the full skip square, like I do using a full skip RS chain?

If you need regular, half skip, or full skip would depend on the size of your bar and the power of your saw.

You want to keep the speed up. If you are using a longer bar and can't keep the speed up with a regular chain, then go to a half or full skip chain.

Also speed of cut goes hand in hand with the depth gauge (raker) settings. The specs for my chain are .025. However I am cutting softer wood and prefer .035. This gives me a faster cut and my saw (MS-460 - 32" bar) can maintain the speed. But if I am cutting different types of wood, I would feel safer using .025 as this would keep the saw from "grabbing" so much.

Lowering the depth gauges beyond factory specs can be dangerous. Depends on the hardness of the wood. I would say if the saw is grabbing, the depth gauges are too low. And you should be getting "square" chips flying out when cutting. Not tiny pieces. If tiny pieces, then need to sharpen the chain and/or lower the depth gauges.

Be sure to use a depth gauge tool. Don't just file away at the depth gauges (dangerous). I have depth gauge tools for .025, .030, and .035. So I know exactly what my depth gauges are set to.

 

[StihlBoy440]

thanks I ordered a depth gauge just made for the Stihl square chain when I ordered the 2 loops of chain just to be sure, these chains like I say are just mainly going to be for competition cutting as I cant afford a purpose bought race chain. If I get the hang of it I might go straight square for everything and if I can ever afford a good grinder

 

[ShoerFast]

From what I hear, just buying a Silvery dose not get your chains square-ground sharp, as it takes some time to master.
Learning to square file chain would be a start in the learning curve, the D-Beveled files I got from my Stihl dealer were stamped "STIHL" but I think they are Swiss made Pferd files.

It takes some time to square file chain, to me it's the gold ring of things to master.


Ware that search button out , there has been a ton of info, but the number 1 thing I think with anyone starting, is to take your time , and with me, keeping my hands and arms from doing one of these " ~ " as you want one of these " / " and one of these on the other side " \ " ,,,,, just kidding , have fun with it, you will be surprised how much faster it cuts.

 

[ShoerFast]

thanks I ordered a depth gauge just made for the Stihl square chain when I ordered the 2 loops of chain just to be sure, these chains like I say are just mainly going to be for competition cutting as I cant afford a purpose bought race chain. If I get the hang of it I might go straight square for everything and if I can ever afford a good grinder

Now this is something I have only toyed with a little, but if you take a length of latigo leather that's width just fits the cutter, find a curved stick , like a miniature bow tie it between it so there are no twist, coat it with green #6 polishing compound and back floss the cutters, ( like you would for a final finish on a knife) they will cut like a rapped ape, for a short time. and then come back too regular square filed chain. It is a small clue when you pull a plastic bar cover off the bar & chain and see a bunch of long orange plastic curley's with a chain finished like that!

Gypo has done a lot of honing of the out side of the cutter, he had posted vids of the times as it helps also.

 

[timberwolf]

The outside corner work can make a big difference, but go to far with it and all of a sudden you can't get the saw to cut if you stand on it. Just did it to a chain I was working on, disapointing to spend hours on a chain and then turn it into junk metal by taking a couple thousandths too much off.