Stihl MS-441 C-M Dies After Idling

[MustangMike]

Thanks, will do.

 

[MtnMike]

Hey Gents.

Unfortunately I'm still waiting to take my saw back in for it's third visit to the Dying-M-Tronic-Saw Clinic, so I don't have any new news about my particular idling problem. As soon as I do, of course, I'll post back here.

I do have an update to the M-Tronic calibration procedure, however. With all due respect to OzHoo, I think I have a newer procedure. This is what I got from the Stihl distributor in Denver about a month ago:

1. With the chain brake engaged…
a. Hold throttle and set start lever to Start position (Δ)
b. Start saw and let idle in Start position (Δ) for 90 seconds
c. Blip throttle to bring the machine to the Run position (I)
d. Immediately move lever to Stop position (O)
e. This will reset the carb to original factory setting.

2. With the chain brake engaged…
a. Hold throttle and set start lever to Start position (Δ)
b. Start saw then Blip throttle to bring the machine to the Run position (I)
c. Let idle in Run position (I) for 90 seconds
d. Immediately move lever to Stop position (O)
e. This will calibrate the idling characteristics of the saw.

3. With the chain brake engaged…
a. Hold throttle and set start lever to Start position (Δ)
b. Start saw then Blip throttle to bring the machine to the Run position (I)
c. Disengage chain brake and make five uniform cuts through a minimum 12-inch-diameter log.
d. This will calibrate the full throttle characteristics of the saw.

Done.

Of course I did this after my carb was replaced, and it didn't make a hill of beans of difference. I think I have a mechanical problem (carb metering lever).

Anyway...thought this might be useful.

 

[Stihlman441]

Thanks you Gary, that is great information to know. Would you recommend doing this after making a minor change like removing the screen from the muffler?

Thanks again, great information.
MustangMike

Havnt found the need to after muff modds.

 

[AKDoug]

It was useful. I haven't received this info as a dealer and I appreciate it.

 

[Ozhoo]

Thanks you Gary, that is great information to know. Would you recommend doing this after making a minor change like removing the screen from the muffler?

Thanks again, great information.
MustangMike

Mike,
That procedure is only used when the control module is replaced. It's used to initiate a "hand shake" procedure between the control module and the carb. A little private time for them to get to know each other, before their first day out in the woods .

 

[Ozhoo]

MtnMike,
The procedure that I posted is only used after components are replaced while the procedure that you've posted is used when operating conditions have changed. One is at the technical level while the other is operational if that clears it up.

 

[Mastermind]

Thanks for posting that.......I'll be using that on used saws that I port.

 

[MustangMike]

I've learned a few things. Just like learning to drive differently when they introduced anti-lock breaks (no more pumping the break pedal), I think I will operate my M-Tronic saw a little differently. I will no longer "rush" to hit the throttle when she starts, seems like the new saws are designed to idle when in the choke position, and I will stop making sure I gun the throttle a few times before shutting it off. Always did that to "clean it out", but maybe that is why my idle stays low and does not set properly.

Thanks for the information guys, I appreciate it.

MustangMike

 

[Mastermind]

I have a 441 and a 261 both ported M-T saws. I love them both......I hate to see any issues from either brand on the stuff. When it's working right, it's a dream come true for me as a modifier. The one thing I worry over is whether a guy will be able to properly tune the saw after I mod it and send it home. AutoTune takes that worry away.

 

[AKDoug]

I've learned a few things. Just like learning to drive differently when they introduced anti-lock breaks (no more pumping the break pedal), I think I will operate my M-Tronic saw a little differently. I will no longer "rush" to hit the throttle when she starts, seems like the new saws are designed to idle when in the choke position, and I will stop making sure I gun the throttle a few times before shutting it off. Always did that to "clean it out", but maybe that is why my idle stays low and does not set properly.

Thanks for the information guys, I appreciate it.

MustangMike

That is the biggest thing I noticed about my 441C-M, it definitely requires a bit more idle time than my other saws. I am actually glad for that feature because it forces the user to warm it up a bit.

 

[Mad Manitoban]

I recently picked up a new 441 C-M, mine is having issues similar to yours.

After felling and part way through limbing, while I clear away slash, the saw will die at idle.
The idle is fairly rough in general too once the saw is warmed up.
It starts right back up, but often bogs and spooges a lot to get back to the top end.
Keep it in the top and don't let it idle long, and all is well.
Let it idle and things go south, more pronounced when the saw is warm.
It also displays the same tendency to quit when picked up, or bounced while walking over rough terrain.

I have had it back to the dealer where I purchased it, they weren't any help, actually got a fair bit of attitude from the owner.
Basically blamed me saying I ran bad gas, I don't know how to run a saw, on and on.
He did admit to never having worked on any M-Tronic saws yet, surprising since these guys sell a fair number of saws, even having the contract to supply the City of Winnipeg crews.
I tried the reset procedures that have been shown here, still the problem persists.

I guess my next step is to talk to someone at Stihl, since I won't be going back to the dealer where I purchased it.

 

[XSKIER]

Maybe mweba should try an accelerator pump block off kit on the MS 441 C-M and post a video? I'll bet the stumbley idle/off idle performance has little to do with the actual M-Tronic processes. If not, I'd be interested in taking a look at your saw.

 

[KenJax Tree]

WOW! M-Tronic problems?? Say is ain't so


Sent from my Autotune Carb

 

[XSKIER]

WOW! M-Tronic problems?? Say is ain't so


Sent from my Autotune Carb

Is ain't so! Carb problems can be fixed, flimsy is forever.

 

[mdavlee]

Well the 261and 441 feel like huskies so they must have noticed flimsy sells.

Any one have a problem with the saws running rich after port work with short bars? The 576 I did wouldn't run good with a 20" and 7 pin. It would 4 stroke in the cut. An 8 pin and lower rakers fixed it.

 

[Knobby57]

There was post somewhere under a chain sharpening thread that someone had this issue and isolated it to a poorly sharpened chain with improperly set rakers . Just guessing hear but iff the chain is grabby or very dull and if the saw uses a rpm variation differential to adjust mixture I can see how the saw could over adjust mixture and course stalling and bogging , but that being said I had the same stalling issues with my new 441 CMR , had it to the dealer to do the racalibrate , I amd meticulous with my chains and tooth length and racer night is dead on I use a stihl USG, even had the same issues with new out of package chains , so anyone's guess is as good as mine , but it really does seem like a software issue to me , I will have the 441 out for a test run in the morning so I guess I'll see,

 

[MustangMike]

There was post somewhere under a chain sharpening thread that someone had this issue and isolated it to a poorly sharpened chain with improperly set rakers . Just guessing hear but iff the chain is grabby or very dull and if the saw uses a rpm variation differential to adjust mixture I can see how the saw could over adjust mixture and course stalling and bogging , but that being said I had the same stalling issues with my new 441 CMR , had it to the dealer to do the racalibrate , I amd meticulous with my chains and tooth length and racer night is dead on I use a stihl USG, even had the same issues with new out of package chains , so anyone's guess is as good as mine , but it really does seem like a software issue to me , I will have the 441 out for a test run in the morning so I guess I'll see,

I did not have a problem with chain sharpening, but the first time I ran my MS 362 C-M it cut small & medium wood great, but bogged in big wood. The problem seemed to be related to "break in" which the manual says should take 5 - 15 tanks of fuel. After 6 tanks of fuel, my saw is running very strong and no longer exhibits this symptom. May be an issue related to new C-M saws. Hope this is helpful.

Ps Went to Wilkes Barre when I was in college in upstate NY, they have a big wrestling tournament there.

 

[stihlonlynow]

Well261and 441 feel like huskies so they must have noticed flimsy sellI had to tell .

Any one have a problem with the saws running rich after port work with short bars? The 576 I did wouldn't run good with a 20" and 7 pin. It would 4 stroke in the cut. An 8 pin and lower rakers fixed it.

I notice 4 stroking in the cut with both my ported saws. I let an old farmer friend run my 550...he owns a 346.. and I had to tell him to show it some wood. The 4 stroking sound in the cut is like nails on the chalkboard. Lower the rakers problem solved....

 

[blsnelling]

If think your MTronic saw is more lean or rich than you want, adjust the needle height accordingly.

 

[nmurph]

Well the 261and 441 feel like huskies so they must have noticed flimsy sells.

Yes, they do. The 261 feels like a 357 and the 441 handles like a 385.