Stopping overfired stove

[fields_mj]

I love myths.

First we have someone saying use flour -- a product that will burn, and since it's finely ground may explode when exposed to flame.

Now we have "road flares will burn up the O2."

Road flares contain their own oxidizer. That's why they light so easily and burn so intensely.

Ever see one burn? Notice how the flame is shooting out "under pressure?" It's not there is a fan on the other end feeding in oxygen fast enough to make that happen...it's providing it's own oxygen as the potassium perchlorate breaks down.

Any CO2 they produce is going to be minimal compared to the fire already going, so they won't be effective in smothering a chimney fire. In short, they're not going to do jack squat to improve the situation.

That's good to know. I've seen plenty of them burn, but never noticed a flame come "shooting" out of them. More like some kind of giant sparkler to me. I wonder why all the fire departments always recommended using them then? Maybe for the same reason they used to recommend putting butter on a burn; they just didn't know any better. Sounds like a general purpose fire extinguisher would be the best option then.

 

[Spitzer]

Why not just use dirt/soil from the garden, good for damping out fire if no sand is available.

 

[Haywire Haywood]

How about a CO2 extinguisher?.. it displaces the oxygen and cools the fire simultaneously. It won't leave the mess that the powder will. Don't know how much they cost, never priced one. They're pretty cold concentrated, might have the same effect on the glass and cast parts as water, don't know.

Ian

 

[Blazin]

Baking soda it works! I had an old top loader (non-airtite) get away from me years ago on a windy night, one good dose of baking soda shut er right down.

 

[Philbert]

How about a CO2 extinguisher?..

CO2 are not very effective on Class A (wood, paper, etc.) fires: they might interrupt it for a second or 2, but will re-flare right up. They are intended for use on burning liquids (Class B fires).

Philbert

 

[RCR 3 EVER]

Chemical fire extinguishers-residue

If one were to use a dry chemical extinguisher to cool a fire down in a metal fireplace insert would the chemical residue damage any of the metal inside the fireplace or the stainless steel chimney?
If so unless it were a full blown chimney fire I would opt for the baking soda routine. Except opening the door a crack for a fire exting. nozzle vs a fully open door for a bag attack sounds a bit hairy or more risky?

 

[kevin j]

In additon to a bunch of dry powder extinguishers I also got two pressurized water ones from a school auction sale . The old kind with about 3 gallons of water and a schrader valve on top to pressureize with a tire pump. For burning wood paper carpet, furniture etc nothing beats water. One stored each in opposite directions from the stove.

when I put in the stove I piped a faucet line into a stud cavity in the nearby stairwell. valve and 50 feet of nylon hose coiled up and ready, covered with an 18 inch square lift off panel held by magnet latches. All flush with the wall, couple finger holes, and quite unobtrusive.

Since I've never had a stove with glas before I was wondering about what if the glass broke and it went to uncontrolled air. I made a galvanized tin panel the sized of the stove door, with cutout for the latch side mechanism. It's primary duty is as a cover for my ash bucket. in case of glass breakage, I can open the door, slide the metal in between door and stove, and close the door again. It may overheat and warp or melt through, but should buy some time.

Never needed any of these, but I have had one chimney fire, assorted garage, auto, shop, machine, and farm fires and there is no such thing as too much ammo or too many fire extinguishers.

 

[Haywire Haywood]

I guess I'm the bizarro world twin to Kevin, my nearest fire extinguisher is a 15lb ABC 60yds off down at the barn. To complete the arch-villain personality, I'm going out right now to fill a 1 gallon plastic can with gas and place it between the stove and the wall.... Muahahaha.

Seriously though, you've put a LOT more thought into fire control than anyone I know.

Ian

 

[RCR 3 EVER]

If I had a overfire occuring and not a chimney fire I think I would not want to use a dry chemical extinguisher on my factory metal insert fireplace,Right or wrong? That is the question I would not want the chance of chemical reaction vs metal and ruin the fireplace just because it may have gotten a bit too hot.

A chimney fire is way beyond that point and the risk of house damage comes into play. Our chimney supposedly guarantees against chimneys fires breaking out with the double wall stainless steel system that was installed. I have an old Halon extinguisher that is still charged that could be used and that supposedly sucks the air out of a room and your lungs if you use it. So it should go well for a chimney fire.

Are my thoughts correct about the overfire vs chimney fire?

 

[kevin j]

yeah maybe overkill, but we had a garage fire from a car that could have been nasty without the extinguishers, which were sort of unusual for private use in those days. and I deal with big railroad equipment making 5000 hp into sparks. Fires are a constant fear, both of equpment and of the right of way getting out of control. Burned up a lot of acres and a lot of million dollar grind cars over the years. so the smell of smoke that isn't like 'normal' gets my adrenaline going real quick.

But I sure would have some cheap homeowner FE within reach even without a wood stove.

and not flour. I worked in the grain milling equipment industry. Flour dust is flammable or explosive, albeit within pretty narrow mixture limits. Search on the 1977 Galveston Cargill or Westwego LA elevator explosions. Thankfully not the equpment I worked on, but a chain reaction leveled dozens of concrete silos like a string of firecrackers.

 

[Haywire Haywood]

Halon displaces oxygen, so if you're in a confined space and you discharge enough of it... well, it gets hard to breathe. I'd think it would work much like the CO2, but since I've never discharged one, I don't know if they get cold or not.

Ian

 

[SINGLE-JACK]

Water, water, water

I've had great success with plain water for an "over fired" stove. My top load stove has a catalytic converter that could be damaged if the fire gets too hot - which it does occasionally if the wood is too dry.

When the stove temp gets too high, I SPRINKLE a little water on the logs and coals ONLY.
Then I add some 'greener' wood to keep the temp down.

I have actually done it this way for years (no folklore). I works everytime.
No cost, no chemicals, no clean-up, no starting a new fire.

HOWEVER, NEVER GET WATER ON HOT METAL, GLASS, FIREBRICKS!!!
IT WILL :censored: UP YOUR STOVE.​

I DO keep the Chimfex around just in case of a chimney fire - but in 20 years, never used it - re-read the instructions each year to remember what to do.

 

[Chip_365]

The Fire Triangle

A fire requires three basic components – fuel, air and heat. To control the fire, at least one of them must be removed.

I have a spray bottle with water in it on hand, so as to spray the logs / fire and to create lots of steam which lowers the temperature everywhere it goes thus removing "heat" from the triangle and so the fire. Also steam is VERY easily pulled up the chimney by the hot air and it can very easily get into any tiny space that could be burning, which I think would be much harder for any dry chemical, most of which stays in your woodstove, vs. up the chimney where the fire may be. You might be able to reduce or stop the fire in the woodstove firebox, but if enough of the dry chemical can't get up the chimney to remove the air from below or above the fire, then the fire will just continue and continue to draw air from wherever it can.

Steam then for a chimney fire would be far more effective than a dry chemical as it travels up further and more rapidly than enough dry chem can. A dry chemical can only try to remove air from the Triangle and I'd think that you'd need a ton of it. Also, I sure as heck wouldn't be able or want to get up on my roof in an emergency to drop a dry chemical down the burning chimney. Steam from below would work far far faster. And I don't mean to create steam by throwing in a bucket of water into your woodstove ..... but hey, whatever works in an emergency.

 

[Philbert]

The Fire Triangle

A fire requires three basic components – fuel, air and heat. To control the fire, at least one of them must be removed. . . . Steam from below would work far far faster. And I don't mean to create steam by throwing in a bucket of water into your woodstove ..... but hey, whatever works in an emergency.

We are not necessarily talking about a chimney fire here. And the term 'over-fired' could mean a lot of different things to different people.

Dry chemical fire extinguishing agents work in a couple of different ways - it' not just the powder 'smothering' the fire. They also coat the burning items (like a flux used in brazing) and interrupt the chemical reaction of the fire (the '4th' side of the fire 'triangle' - sometimes referred to as a 'pyramid' for that reason).

The potential danger of steam is that it can blow back at the person putting the water on the fire, causing serious, scalding burns, long before it works its way up the chimney, in addition to the thermal shock issues to the stove mentioned earlier.

A spray bottle might work to cool the fire, depending upon how the water is applied, how far into the box you can shoot it from a safe distance, and how far 'out of control' the stove is.

Philbert

 

[logbutcher]

"Fuel, air, heat" triangle. Right.

Not water spray: steam blowback will burn.

Chemicals/gas such as Halon: some danger again from blowback when the door is cracked.

So why not the simple K.I.S.S. method to smother the fire, stop the coals and fuel from burning, cutting off air ? opcorn: Shovels of SAND. Or plain dirt ( unfrozen :jawdrop: ). Keep a bucket close by, be sure that it contains no salt.
A couple of shovel fulls will do the job. It's been done many times. Simple, clean, effective.

 

[farm girl]

When I started cooking on my own mom told me to use flour if I had a cooking fire of any kind.

One time we had a lawnmower catch on fire and mom put dirt on it. Dad had a hard time cleaning it up but it ran for years after that. Dirt worked good and was safe.

Luckly, I never had a problem yet. Ha! Ha! Just don't pour water that would crack casting in stove.

 

[Dalmatian90]

When I started cooking on my own mom told me to use flour if I had a cooking fire of any kind.

Your mother was wrong.

Think about it -- what is flour made from?

In the right situation, you could put out a fire with sawdust. Doesn't make it the best option.

http://www.usfa.dhs.gov/fireservice/research/other/cooking/index5.shtm

 

[farm girl]

I will try flour outside on a wood fire and see what it does. I will post the results.

That is what the older women in this area used a long time ago. I know it is not the best but it was what is close to you in the kitchen when an emergency happens. Some other dry powders will burn faster --don't use them.

 

[SLVRTRC]

I wonder what chemicals they use?

we recently went over at our fire hall and reviewed our practice for chimney fires and we use dry chemical fire extinguisher powder in sandwich bags... i would recommend not using water on your chimney or stove... especially a brick chimney water could damage or cause it to explode if extremity hot. We also have brushes and and a chain that we use to break up anything in the chimney.

Our practice is to use our dry chemical bags and extinguishers and not use water unless the wall or other exposures catch fire to minimize damage

 

[YCSTEVE]

Plan A : I just close off the air and it dies down pretty quick.

Plan B: Bucket of ash. I've never had to use it and It would probably make a heck of a mess but that's what dad always kept near by.

Plan C: Fire Extinguisher.

If my stove was damaged and didn't seal up right then I would not burn it in my house until it was repaired.