Strato Only From Now On

[Chris-PA]

this is about like the wally world bar oil thread...if your concerned about the stink...why do u cut wood...if your an environmentalist....why cut wood? Are u a tree cuttin hippie or what folks? if u burn wood your whole house will stink..its part of it. Now quit bein sissies!!! Now we're worried about bar oil stinkin too much...and the saw stinkin too much....thats a disgrace to real men everywhere...some of you guys are ate up with it...i tell ya!!

Yes, I'm an environmentalist. I'm a country boy and I don't like concrete and steel and asphalt and foul air. I burn wood to avoid using fossil fuels, to save money and because I like it. Wood smoke is not stink - I like the smell - and my stoves don't smoke much. The small amount of fuel I use in the chainsaws lets me avoid using many many gallons of heating oil.

I figured the real man/sissy/tough guy thing would come up eventually. All my life there have been plenty of guys who were tougher "real-men" than scrawny ol' me. At 48 few of them can keep up with me if they even had any desire to do any physical work. I've seen what happens when injury or illness hits someone that was in apparently good health; how quickly they get laid low and what happens to their families trying to pay the bills. So I won't breathe any more of the junk than I have to, but you're welcome to.

I guess that makes me a sissy environmentalist who can swing axes and mauls all day and runs muffler modded chainsaws. Whatever.

 

[the westspartan]

Being an environmentalist and burning wood are not mutually exclusive! Most people would call me a whacked out hippie. Tags are oversimplified always. I don't cut trees and hunt deer because I hate them! I do it to be part of the cycle and take responsibility for my heat and my food and my building materials and to show my kids to do the same and I do it in a sustainable way. I have always thought it was funny when people start throwing around the word sissie. It usually means the one saying it has something to prove. Call me a sissie if you like, I drive a car that gets great gas mileage, I make art, I compost and have a composting toilet, I don't have a TV, I am an organic gardener, My main saw is a dreaded STRATO that I bought because of the fuel savings, I use bio bar oil, blah blah blah. But I also know that I take care of my surroundings and my family and when the sh*t hits the fan, this sissie will be able to handle it better than most of your "MACHO" types. Most of that macho crap comes suburbanites that wish they were woodsman.

 

[cheeves]

Yes, I'm an environmentalist. I'm a country boy and I don't like concrete and steel and asphalt and foul air. I burn wood to avoid using fossil fuels, to save money and because I like it. Wood smoke is not stink - I like the smell - and my stoves don't smoke much. The small amount of fuel I use in the chainsaws lets me avoid using many many gallons of heating oil.

I figured the real man/sissy/tough guy thing would come up eventually. All my life there have been plenty of guys who were tougher "real-men" than scrawny ol' me. At 48 few of them can keep up with me if they even had any desire to do any physical work. I've seen what happens when injury or illness hits someone that was in apparently good health; how quickly they get laid low and what happens to their families trying to pay the bills. So I won't breathe any more of the junk than I have to, but you're welcome to.

I guess that makes me a sissy environmentalist who can swing axes and mauls all day and runs muffler modded chainsaws. Whatever.

I got Industrial Bronchitis from working in a steel mill in Elm Grove, WV. I had this black gooey crud comeing out of my nose for 18 months after being on a nebulizer. Had to sleep in a chair for almost 2 yrs. Was diagnosed with emphysema and bronchitis. Was not fun struggling to breath. Finally got better after a long convalesence using salt water in a nebulizer. Had a few friends with black lung that were in their 30's. WHW comes from Penn. They have a huge population with lung disease. You cannot fault him one bit for being concerned about his health. I'll say it again," The Secret Is Oxygen."

 

[Vibes]

I ran Amsoil synthetic in my bachback blower one time and I got a bad headache. Has this ever happened to anyone or was this purely a coincidence. Haven't run it since, but that never happened to me before. Could it have been from the Amsoil. BTW, I work inindustrial settings all the time. I know what exposer symptons (headaches) are all about.

 

[lmbrman]

I was nervous about the strato technology for a while, seen plenty of those saws on the bench at the local repair shop with fried bearings, but I took the leap myself and must admit, while the oil smell never stopped me from working the last twenty years, I am glad to notice less oil odor in my truck when the family goes somewhere, and less stink on my clothes at home.

I have found that some mix oils stink way worse than others- I personally could do without the mix oil perfume and all of it bothers my eyes.

I do love the smell of diesel over 2smoke, and still get plenty of both perfumes

 

[3000 FPS]

Although I agree with you WHW I am afraid that it would be a cold in he!! before I give up using my old saws. If had to and was concerned about it that much I would wear a respirator the kind that you find for painting cars with charcoal filters. The smell I can deal with, but you are right, the breathing in of fumes cannot be good for you. Me I will pick a windy day to do my cutting.

 

[Chris-PA]

I got Industrial Bronchitis from working in a steel mill in Elm Grove, WV. I had this black gooey crud comeing out of my nose for 18 months after being on a nebulizer. Had to sleep in a chair for almost 2 yrs. Was diagnosed with emphysema and bronchitis. Was not fun struggling to breath. Finally got better after a long convalesence using salt water in a nebulizer. Had a few friends with black lung that were in their 30's. WHW comes from Penn. They have a huge population with lung disease. You cannot fault him one bit for being concerned about his health. I'll say it again," The Secret Is Oxygen."

Damn man, that sounds awful! I'm glad you got past it and hope it stays away. I've breathed plenty of junk, but never as part of a daily job. I've been working on cars and machinery all my life, been around lots of fumes, had all sorts of chemicals on me - but I'm not young and invincible anymore, and old enough to know that just about everything has some effect on you and nobody will look out for you but yourself.

 

[Alex D]

Funny about that, but the first tank I ran through my 455r Husky, it was PATENTLY OBVIOUS to me that the strato engine was an enormous improvement for the local air quality- the air that I breathe. And I was in no way primed to conclude that; it was simply obvious.

When you consider that "typical" 2-stroke engine passes through 30-70% of incoming mix from transfers to exhaust, you've got to be kidding with that comment, or are just in denial. And, mix costs money.

Nasty 2-stroke fumes don't do you much good re brain-power.

Any 2-stroke I purchase in the future will be seriously emission-controlled, preferably stratified-scavenged, or direct-injection, or "equivalent" technology. Technophobes are the new Luddites.

Lets look at somethings:

What is the volume of polluting gases produced by the saw vs the volume of air around it??
Air circulation outside how long do those gases stay in the area around you??
If this danger is so great then what would the lungs or health of someone who has say driven a motorcyle down oh i dunno a highway in San Francisco look like if saw exhaust is such a danger??
Some things that have been said before but just to repeat:
Heating wood also produces harmful fumes albeit they may not be as bad as those of gas but this is inside your house not outside. Lets switch to say solar power or wind power much better for your health ain't it?? Hey why are you running a chainsaw in the first place go get a handsaw its much better for your health....

The problem I have with some of these new EPA regs regarding saws is that some are well to say the least quite pointless. Dont believe me look at the mufflers on new saws and how many guys send them out to be modified so that they run to their full potential. Or the fact that they did away with manual override in regards to the oiler now i read on this site that they may of down away with that so that more oil does not accidently get into the environment and pollute whether this is true or not i dunno. All of this is to comply with some sort of enivronmentalism or "green" technology but how much pollution do saws really produced their emissions are probably insiginificant in the entire atmosphere but the one of number one polluters- cargo ships have extremely lax regs on their gas, emissions etc... What I am doubting is the significance of saw pollutants to your health when there are so many other much more health damaging chemicals out there that you consume that are beyong your control.

 

[Mastermind]

And.......from what I'm seeing in my shop, the strato saws take to mods real well. At first it seems everyone was trying to overcome the strato effect in the mods. I've found that with very little coaxing these saws can be made to run and run strong with the strato function alive and well.

The bearing issue that was mentioned I do not understand though. The fuel/oil mixture still flows through the crankcase just like any other saw.

 

[Chris-PA]

Lets look at somethings:

What is the volume of polluting gases produced by the saw vs the volume of air around it??
Air circulation outside how long do those gases stay in the area around you??
If this danger is so great then what would the lungs or health of someone who has say driven a motorcyle down oh i dunno a highway in San Francisco look like if saw exhaust is such a danger??
Some things that have been said before but just to repeat:
Heating wood also produces harmful fumes albeit they may not be as bad as those of gas but this is inside your house not outside. Lets switch to say solar power or wind power much better for your health ain't it?? Hey why are you running a chainsaw in the first place go get a handsaw its much better for your health....

The problem I have with some of these new EPA regs regarding saws is that some are well to say the least quite pointless. Dont believe me look at the mufflers on new saws and how many guys send them out to be modified so that they run to their full potential. Or the fact that they did away with manual override in regards to the oiler now i read on this site that they may of down away with that so that more oil does not accidently get into the environment and pollute whether this is true or not i dunno. All of this is to comply with some sort of enivronmentalism or "green" technology but how much pollution do saws really produced their emissions are probably insiginificant in the entire atmosphere but the one of number one polluters- cargo ships have extremely lax regs on their gas, emissions etc... What I am doubting is the significance of saw pollutants to your health when there are so many other much more health damaging chemicals out there that you consume that are beyong your control.

In no particular order:

Nobody runs 2-strokes on highways. Be glad they don't.

Bunker fuel on ships is awful stuff, but I cannot fix that and I don't live near a port nor have one in my yard.

If I didn't have to work for a living and spent all my time on my property, I would use my hand saw and axes more, just as I would my scythe and other hand tools. However, gathering firewood in addition to working full time does not allow sufficient time for that, and I have no helper for the other end of the saw.

if you've vented your stove to the inside of your house you might want to review some installation guides, or maybe ask over on the firewood forum.

The vast majority of people who own saws will never read on AS and never modify their saws.

Total toxic load is the source of many health problems. If you try to find just one thing to blame you'll decide nothing can harm you. If you aren't concerned, then don't bother yourself about it - I don't care at all.

Man, I'm not sure what bothers people about my saying I'm going to go with the engine technology that produces less toxic fumes for me to breathe. It appears some find that idea threatening or disturbing, but I don't know why. I didn't even say I was going to junk my old saws - I'm not, I'll keep running them for now. Honestly folks, feel free to do whatever you want with your health - it's not going to cost me much, as our health care system is collapsing along with the rest of our economy, so it'll just be your problem.

 

[jropo]

I do lawn care, last summer I was slow, went to work w/ a guy that has alot of accounts, ~ 140 including 10 cemeteries.
There was a big guy that worked w/ us, not over weight just big, didn't ever want to do much.(non-smoker)
In this one cemetery he would always want to do this one section (less trimming, under the trees) then he needed take a break and sit down, because he was dizzy.
He eventually quit, I had to do that section, and I had to use his trimmer (head on mine broke). I was trimming along and got a wif of exh. got to the end of the row lit a smoke and started down the other side, got another wif, kept going 3 rows into it I also got dizzy, went back to the rig to get some water, pulled the plug on the trimmer, it was almost black, filter was plugged, cleaned the filter, still rich, boss used a HEAVY mix to make the equipment last longer, and had no qlue on how to set a carb.
So I can understand, But as far a the smell on you clothes, ect. use KLOTZ, you might find your self in the garage w/ the doors closed, reving your saw.:hmm3grin2orange:

 

[chopperfreak2k1]

And.......from what I'm seeing in my shop, the strato saws take to mods real well. At first it seems everyone was trying to overcome the strato effect in the mods. I've found that with very little coaxing these saws can be made to run and run strong with the strato function alive and well.

The bearing issue that was mentioned I do not understand though. The fuel/oil mixture still flows through the crankcase just like any other saw.

yup, the few strato builds i've followed all seemed like there was more in it than was first thought. i'm fallin in love with stratos

 

[Alex D]

In no particular order:

Nobody runs 2-strokes on highways. Be glad they don't.

Bunker fuel on ships is awful stuff, but I cannot fix that and I don't live near a port nor have one in my yard.

If I didn't have to work for a living and spent all my time on my property, I would use my hand saw and axes more, just as I would my scythe and other hand tools. However, gathering firewood in addition to working full time does not allow sufficient time for that, and I have no helper for the other end of the saw.

if you've vented your stove to the inside of your house you might want to review some installation guides, or maybe ask over on the firewood forum.

The vast majority of people who own saws will never read on AS and never modify their saws.

Total toxic load is the source of many health problems. If you try to find just one thing to blame you'll decide nothing can harm you. If you aren't concerned, then don't bother yourself about it - I don't care at all.

Man, I'm not sure what bothers people about my saying I'm going to go with the engine technology that produces less toxic fumes for me to breathe. It appears some find that idea threatening or disturbing, but I don't know why. I didn't even say I was going to junk my old saws - I'm not, I'll keep running them for now. Honestly folks, feel free to do whatever you want with your health - it's not going to cost me much, as our health care system is collapsing along with the rest of our economy, so it'll just be your problem.

A valid point with 2 strokes not being present on highways at least in large numbers but 4 strokes still pollute no?? What do you think releases more pollution a motorcycle/car/many cars or a saw??

All indoor areas that have fireplaces will smell of it. Now some more than others depending on ventiliation etc... but the fumes and smell is still there.

Personally I have nothing against you using the strato saws. What I personally disagree with is of how much healthier these strato saws are mainly due to my dislike for the emissions crap whih seems focussed on the avg person but huge leniency towards the main problem: industry especially when off shored. With that being said and getting back on topic I dont really use my saws all that often dont think ive ever tried strato either so i maybe wrong but thats what i think ATM its not set in stone.

Now in no way shape or form do i say nothing can harm me etc... For example smoking has been proven to be deterimental and i personally don't smoke. There are several other health conscience things i try to do but i dont think this is the place to get into it.

 

[jropo]

You may not have fumes/ smoke in your house, but you gotta go outside some time.

 

[jropo]

Does any one have a link to a GOOD thread on Strato saws?
Thanks

 

[CTYank]

Lets look at somethings:

What is the volume of polluting gases produced by the saw vs the volume of air around it??
Air circulation outside how long do those gases stay in the area around you??
If this danger is so great then what would the lungs or health of someone who has say driven a motorcyle down oh i dunno a highway in San Francisco look like if saw exhaust is such a danger??
Some things that have been said before but just to repeat:
Heating wood also produces harmful fumes albeit they may not be as bad as those of gas but this is inside your house not outside. Lets switch to say solar power or wind power much better for your health ain't it?? Hey why are you running a chainsaw in the first place go get a handsaw its much better for your health....

The problem I have with some of these new EPA regs regarding saws is that some are well to say the least quite pointless. Dont believe me look at the mufflers on new saws and how many guys send them out to be modified so that they run to their full potential. Or the fact that they did away with manual override in regards to the oiler now i read on this site that they may of down away with that so that more oil does not accidently get into the environment and pollute whether this is true or not i dunno. All of this is to comply with some sort of enivronmentalism or "green" technology but how much pollution do saws really produced their emissions are probably insiginificant in the entire atmosphere but the one of number one polluters- cargo ships have extremely lax regs on their gas, emissions etc... What I am doubting is the significance of saw pollutants to your health when there are so many other much more health damaging chemicals out there that you consume that are beyong your control.

I don't suffer from Oppositional Disorder, nor do have a knee-JERK reaction to the mention of the EPA. If you really want to discuss the subject, please first research and understand "short-circuiting" of incoming charge in 2-strokes. Then, you'd have some understanding of the "fume-bath" that sometimes surrounds a chainsaw user in still air. It's called "unburned hydrocarbons." Much research was done by EPA & CARB to assess PPE 2-stroke input to air pollution; it's a matter of record.

I simply & objectively noticed how much that was alleviated with a strato saw. Absolutely don't care about anyone's political diatribes as to how that came about. These lungs are mine, and I'll do what it takes to boost my chances of getting another good 66 years out of them.

You know NOTHING about how wood-stove affects my house interior, nor the totality of environmental threats in my area. And I'd appreciate it very much if you allow me to prioritize my responses to those threats. If you are afraid of changes for the better, maybe you can find a nice used Clinton saw, the one that ran at 12:1 fuelil.

As Lee Iacocca put it: "Lead, follow, or get out of the way."

 

[naturelover]

I knew that a 2-stroke didn't burn all the oil during combustion, but didn't know really how much. The FS-250 hardly smokes and is always run on 50-1 Stihl oil. You might be able to see some smoke the sun or something. However, the way it is set up, it pulls the cooling air through the back. And even after just an hour of running it, the fan shroud is speckled everywhere with the unburnt oil out of the exhaust.

It could be worse on mine because its usually ran at part throttle.

I haven't had a chance to run it for an extended period on the Synthetic yet, but do plan on it. I expect it to do the same thing, but will see if its better by any chance.

Shame I can't find some way to test the new 441, see if its any better, but the only time I've seen it smoke was when it was self-adjusting itself during its first cuts.

Am really liking the benefits of the Strato saws too though. :msp_thumbup:

 

[slipknot]

Yes, I use PPE. Im sorry if i offended any of you guys or gals or guys that think they are gals. I have no problem with strato saws either. I just dont understand how sensitive some of you are. Sorry if i hurt anyone's feelings. Do any of you guys get your panties in a wad when the paint wears off of your bars? That must have something to do with cheap bar oil useage. Run stihl oil at $16 gal and it wont scratch up as much.:msp_w00t:

 

[jpsheb]

So all four of my saws are working well. They're all different in character and capability, but I like them all and they are all effective tools. But I have been reading a lot about strato engines and how they work, reading several threads about how they respond to muffler mods, looked over the IPL of the PP4218, etc. I've also considered getting an older small saw to teach my son on.

I was thinking about all that while cutting today. I ran around 3 tanks through the 42cc Craftsman and ran the Mac a bit just to get it hot and work it. And now I stink. I breathed a lot of exhaust and I reek.

The only strato engine I have now is my new pole saw, and it works fine without so many fumes. So if I get a saw to teach my son it will be something like a PP3516AV. And anything else I buy from now on will be too. I don't need to breathe any more of that than necessary.

I notice alot of people around here seem to think long term health & safety is for pansies, but it's a good move, at least for your son

 

[jpsheb]

In no particular order:

Nobody runs 2-strokes on highways. Be glad they don't...

At least not in North America, thank God.

Two-stroke exhaust is seriously bad juju in the developing world. By nine years ago, there were roughly 70-100 million motorcycles, mopeds, tuk-tuks, & trikes, & other 2-stroke vehicles clogging asiatic roads. (from an old SAE journal article). When one realizes that (at least according to CARB), every hour running a typical two-stroke weed-whacker produces the pollution of over 800-miles in a typical car. These accounted for 70% of India's hydrocarbon emmissions. It can only be worse today. Imagine being a pedestrian or on a bicycle there!

If we don't care about your own health with these things, we should at least give a thought for our kids and grandkids.