Stump Grinding Estimates

[Gunsmoke]

Hey guys! I was just wanting to get some advice on how you are handling your estimates on grinding(even tree work even though I only grind) w/ fuel prices this high? The way I have done it in the past is drive out and look or sometimes when I'm lucky swing by w/ mach. give price and all in the same shot grind the job if no utilities close. One grinding contractor I know will bid em' over the phone and hope for the best Thanks in advance!

 

[Mikecutstrees]

my plan is to just tack on a few extra dollars for the jobs that are further. Whatever the extra cost of fuel is ... add that in. For stuff in my own town no change. I think that high fuel costs will consolodate tree companies work and each company will have a smaller radius they travel to.

 

[ropensaddle]

my plan is to just tack on a few extra dollars for the jobs that are further. Whatever the extra cost of fuel is ... add that in. For stuff in my own town no change. I think that high fuel costs will consolodate tree companies work and each company will have a smaller radius they travel to.

I think high fuel prices will make some go under! I bid for it, its the only way to grow, include costs in your estimate, the job is still just as hard fuel did not change that.

 

[Gunsmoke]

We just had that discussion at the local mulch yard about how many mower jockeys and other low ball companies (tree guys included) will be gone in the near future. I came from the farm, then to the trucking industry where fuel was a concern to me when it went from a $1.00 to 1.59 in 2000(wish we had that back) and that is why I refuse to bid low and whore up the market! I like to here from the "seasoned vets" and anyone w/ some good ideas. Thanx guys!

 

[masterarbor]

the gas is just the cost of doing business and is factored in at aggregate not each job. some are close, some ain't. i price it per inch using a straight diameter calculation. but another fella prices it per cubic inch. he says that as the stump gets bigger the surface area multiplies and compounds, which makes sense. there was a formula he used in a previous post, what was that guys? the only problem is if you go cubic inch, eventually your gonna come across the 3-4 hundred dollar stump and you just gotta know someone is going to do it cheaper.

as far as bidding over the phone: "well, our rate is $______
per inch/cubic inch with a $______ minimum. how big is your stump? well, that sounds like it's going to be in the $_____ price range if your measurements are correct. would you like me to come out and take care of that for you?"

good luck!

 

[ropensaddle]

the gas is just the cost of doing business and is factored in at aggregate not each job. some are close, some ain't. i price it per inch using a straight diameter calculation. but another fella prices it per cubic inch. he says that as the stump gets bigger the surface area multiplies and compounds, which makes sense. there was a formula he used in a previous post, what was that guys? the only problem is if you go cubic inch, eventually your gonna come across the 3-4 hundred dollar stump and you just gotta know someone is going to do it cheaper.

as far as bidding over the phone: "well, our rate is $______
per inch/cubic inch with a $______ minimum. how big is your stump? well, that sounds like it's going to be in the $_____ price range if your measurements are correct. would you like me to come out and take care of that for you?"

good luck!

Some stumps are worth 400.00 but you are right you wont get it.That is why I bought a bigger grinder, a small grinder and you can't compete.I bid on several key points, one how many do you have! Two are they big small and how deep do you want them ground. Three are there any underground concerns to deal with,four how soon do you need them done,five do you want the grindings cleaned up, and if so; just know it cost more than the grinding does! six there is a fuel charge applied as well as tooth charge in your rocks, that charge is the cost incurred.

 

[Gunsmoke]

Thanx guys! I appreciate all the advice. I usually bid per inch across the cut then look @ surface roots, etc. I think I'll make up a "order sheet" or what ever you want to call it, so when customers call I can go through the list of questions that you guys ask
and I won't forget anything. This is my first year full time. I was grinding at night and weekends and couldn't't keep up. I went and sold my Carlton 2300 and bought a Carlton SP7015 60hp. Paid my truck off, paid cash for the trailer and just had to finance the machine. It is a concern about the fuel prices but it seems that the people out here still are going shoppin' @ the mall, drinkin' $5 coffees and etc. Where going to give er' all we got, pray and work like a dog @ it. (and not low ball the bids... wait that's another post! )

 

[lxt]

Gunsmoke, I dont know how many would do this but I have actually had people emali me pic`s of the stump & surroundings, they give me a measurement (widest area), I inform them to make the call "PA 1 call" for underground utilities.

this along with what has been stated here will help greatly, I always hated getting the call to bid a stump that was left 2ft high & they want that chunk hauled away.........it will cost more, but if you qoute them a price even ballpark on the phone thats what they keep in their mind & if its more $$$ then they get a little salty!!!


LXT................

 

[arbor pro]

Over the phone, I only give 'Estimates' - not a firm bid. The estimated price is based off of measurements and information provided by the customer. If they accept my 'estimate', it is with the understanding that my measurements taken at the actual job site will be used in calculating the final price for doing the work. Unless there are a bunch of stumps or a really really big one, I don't do on-site bids until they have already ok'd the phone estimate. It costs too much $ and takes too much time to give job-site bids for smaller stumps. With enough direction, I can usually get the client to give me the measurements I'm looking for to estimate the job.

I also charge a minimum fee and figure that on bigger stumps, the client is probably going to underestimate the size of the root flare. My grinding price per inch generally reflects that. As for fuel, it's a cost just like insurance and equipment maintenance. If your cost goes up, your price goes up or else it digs into your profit margin.

Do any of you guys charge fuel 'surcharges' like trucking companies do when fuel prices skyrocket? I'm not talking about adding a few bucks more into your bid - I'm talking about adding on $5 or so as a specific fuel surcharge above and beyond the price of your bid so that the client knows it is specifically to cover the rising cost of fuel...? If you do apply a surcharge, how has it gone over with clients?

 

[bombdude]

and that is why I refuse to bid low and whore up the market!

I'm part time & new, May will make a year for me. Still feelin' the effects of the guys "whorin" up the market over the winter.

I'm still pricin the same, but I seem to be missin' out on a lotta work. I try to do $2 per inch on a few stumps ($3/inch above 48"), or come up with an average size & do a "per stump" bid on larger jobs. At the same time, I try to guestimate how many hours the job will take & come up with a figure @ $100/hour for me & my machine. Sometimes it works out pretty close, & sometimes it doesn't.

I haven't started adjusting for fuel costs...yet. It seems that the cheaper guys are gettin the work 'round here, so raising prices is a moot point.

 

[Gunsmoke]

Great help you guys! Lxt, did I understand you right that you have the customer call in the utilities? I never thought of that. If you do, is your butt still covered? I ran across a web site and the guy stated right on his site that customer is responsible for utility call in. If they sign a liability form that it's their problem, that's great. If I misunderstood let me know.
I just wanted to say good luck to bombdude. I'm there w/ ya man. All you can do is market research on what others are charging and try to be the first to answer the phone when the customer calls and first to give prof. est.
Thanx again guys I appreciate all the input from everyone!

 

[BC WetCoast]

I'm part time & new, May will make a year for me. Still feelin' the effects of the guys "whorin" up the market over the winter.

I'm still pricin the same, but I seem to be missin' out on a lotta work. I try to do $2 per inch on a few stumps ($3/inch above 48"), or come up with an average size & do a "per stump" bid on larger jobs. At the same time, I try to guestimate how many hours the job will take & come up with a figure @ $100/hour for me & my machine. Sometimes it works out pretty close, & sometimes it doesn't.

I haven't started adjusting for fuel costs...yet. It seems that the cheaper guys are gettin the work 'round here, so raising prices is a moot point.

Just remember that grinding a 48" stump for $96 means you are grinding 4x + the volume of material you would be on a 24" stump for $48 and 8X the volume of material from a 12" stump for $24.

How do you deal with tough access (ie narrow gates, use of ramps etc)? Do you include travel, set up, clean up and chat with the customer time in your $100/hr rate? If so, given you only have 15 minutes to do that 12" stump, you must be pretty quick in driving, parking, raking and blowing the site.

I just finished a fir stump the other day. It was about 6' at ground level but with the buttress roots, I had to grind about 10' in diameter. Contract called for 12" depth and 3" of top soil. Took me about 8 hours to grind and haul mulch - 5 yards to shovel into the truck. Just under a yard of topsoil back into the hole.

 

[ropensaddle]

Just remember that grinding a 48" stump for $96 means you are grinding 4x + the volume of material you would be on a 24" stump for $48 and 8X the volume of material from a 12" stump for $24.

How do you deal with tough access (ie narrow gates, use of ramps etc)? Do you include travel, set up, clean up and chat with the customer time in your $100/hr rate? If so, given you only have 15 minutes to do that 12" stump, you must be pretty quick in driving, parking, raking and blowing the site.

I just finished a fir stump the other day. It was about 6' at ground level but with the buttress roots, I had to grind about 10' in diameter. Contract called for 12" depth and 3" of top soil. Took me about 8 hours to grind and haul mulch - 5 yards to shovel into the truck. Just under a yard of topsoil back into the hole.

That would be a high dollar stump job. I am not a landscaper, I will provide
that labor but it won't be cheap. I would have charged 700.00 at least
for what you described!

 

[masiman]

Just remember that grinding a 48" stump for $96 means you are grinding 4x + the volume of material you would be on a 24" stump for $48 and 8X the volume of material from a 12" stump for $24.

I calculate those areas to be bigger differences. Assuming the stump is a circle, the equation to calculate area is pi*(radius**2), where pi is roughly 3.1416 and radius is 1/2 the diameter (square that).

3.1416((48/2)**2) ~ 1810
3.1416((24/2)**2) ~ 452
3.1416((12/2)**2) ~ 113

That's about 3.5 times the area from 24" to 48". That's about 15 times from 12" to 48". If you multiply by the height of the grinding to get the volume, assuming they are equal, the ratio will be the same. Of course this only estimates stump volume and does not look at roots.

 

[bombdude]

Just remember that grinding a 48" stump for $96 means you are grinding 4x + the volume of material you would be on a 24" stump for $48 and 8X the volume of material from a 12" stump for $24.

How do you deal with tough access (ie narrow gates, use of ramps etc)? Do you include travel, set up, clean up and chat with the customer time in your $100/hr rate? If so, given you only have 15 minutes to do that 12" stump, you must be pretty quick in driving, parking, raking and blowing the site.

I just finished a fir stump the other day. It was about 6' at ground level but with the buttress roots, I had to grind about 10' in diameter. Contract called for 12" depth and 3" of top soil. Took me about 8 hours to grind and haul mulch - 5 yards to shovel into the truck. Just under a yard of topsoil back into the hole.

I understand the difference in linear inch & cubic inch and how the stump grows exponentially as the diameter increases. Originally I was pricing everything at $2/inch regardless of size which was way too low for bigger stumps.

As far as incidentals, I usually kick in extra as the job demands it. To reduce my machine (Vermeer 352) for a narrow gate, I usually kick in an extra $20. Excess distance, I figure in a little extra for fuel. I don't dig, haul or refill if I can help it. I do grade & dress the shavings, and blow off the sidewalks or porches if needed. That is usually figured as part of my $100/hour rate.

Our problem here is too many "beer money grinders".

I just bid a 56" pine stump w/6' of roots in each direction (probably about 17 linear feet of grinding area), inside a stone wall fence with one 35 1/2" cypress doorway. Money was not an issue with these people. This was one of 3 homes that these people own. One of them being on the beach on the Mexican coast. I told them that I'd do it for $400.00 which I thought was EXTREMELY cheap. Hubby sounded happy, & said that he'd call me as they were going out of town for a few days. I left feeling that I'd gotten the job, and that I probably should have bid more.

I get a call a week later from the wife who says that the guy that took the tree down could get her a grinder to do it for $100. I advised her that I couldn't do it for that, and I would be surprised that anyone else would do it that cheap. Even gave her the pitch about doing a thorough job, insurance, customer satisfaction, etc. Yesterday, I talked back with her, &, sure enough, the tree guy got her a grinder for $100. He did the job on Monday.

 

[corndogg]

I understand the difference in linear inch & cubic inch and how the stump grows exponentially as the diameter increases. Originally I was pricing everything at $2/inch regardless of size which was way too low for bigger stumps.

As far as incidentals, I usually kick in extra as the job demands it. To reduce my machine (Vermeer 352) for a narrow gate, I usually kick in an extra $20. Excess distance, I figure in a little extra for fuel. I don't dig, haul or refill if I can help it. I do grade & dress the shavings, and blow off the sidewalks or porches if needed. That is usually figured as part of my $100/hour rate.

Our problem here is too many "beer money grinders".

I just bid a 56" pine stump w/6' of roots in each direction (probably about 17 linear feet of grinding area), inside a stone wall fence with one 35 1/2" cypress doorway. Money was not an issue with these people. This was one of 3 homes that these people own. One of them being on the beach on the Mexican coast. I told them that I'd do it for $400.00 which I thought was EXTREMELY cheap. Hubby sounded happy, & said that he'd call me as they were going out of town for a few days. I left feeling that I'd gotten the job, and that I probably should have bid more.

I get a call a week later from the wife who says that the guy that took the tree down could get her a grinder to do it for $100. I advised her that I couldn't do it for that, and I would be surprised that anyone else would do it that cheap. Even gave her the pitch about doing a thorough job, insurance, customer satisfaction, etc. Yesterday, I talked back with her, &, sure enough, the tree guy got her a grinder for $100. He did the job on Monday.

It's stories like these that make us all throw our hand up and wonder what some peopla are thinking. Good for the HO for saving themselves the cash. At least with stump grinding there is not much risk that the lowballer will screw up and drop the tree on the house. Most customers are smart to let the stump sit there until some lowballer spots it and does it for free!

I am usually around $2 bucks an inch to compete and try to upsell on cleanup and backfill. The square inch thing makes way more sense. And it gives the illusion that you are cheaper! Some guys around here are busy at 3.50 an inch. I started grinding because people wanted it in the removal package and couldn't get the subs to do it reliably. Figured it coould be a good source of more revenue but so far not impressed.

 

[corndogg]

Well here's how it works out.
Stump Dia____$2/inch___$3/inch____$.11/sq inch
24"____________48_______72________49.73
48"____________96_______144_______198
84"____________168______252_______609

The square inch price gets a little out of hand with the big ones. The three dollar price looks pretty good if you have a big grinder to handle the big ones quickly. The three dollar price will scare customers away. Keep in mind you have to shovel the mulch out of the way on the big ones so you can see what you are doing anyway. Might as well charge more and haul it away.

So what's the answer? Maybe a lower square inch price with a minimum of $80?

 

[BC WetCoast]

I calculate those areas to be bigger differences. Assuming the stump is a circle, the equation to calculate area is pi*(radius**2), where pi is roughly 3.1416 and radius is 1/2 the diameter (square that).

3.1416((48/2)**2) ~ 1810
3.1416((24/2)**2) ~ 452
3.1416((12/2)**2) ~ 113

That's about 3.5 times the area from 24" to 48". That's about 15 times from 12" to 48". If you multiply by the height of the grinding to get the volume, assuming they are equal, the ratio will be the same. Of course this only estimates stump volume and does not look at roots.

You're right, I was just thinking it through without double checking the calcs on paper. If you double the diameter you 4x the area (2 squared), if you 4x the diameter then you 16 times the area (4 squared). Thanks for correcting my oversight.

 

[BC WetCoast]

Well here's how it works out.
Stump Dia____$2/inch___$3/inch____$.11/sq inch
24"____________48_______72________49.73
48"____________96_______144_______198
84"____________168______252_______609

The square inch price gets a little out of hand with the big ones. The three dollar price looks pretty good if you have a big grinder to handle the big ones quickly. The three dollar price will scare customers away. Keep in mind you have to shovel the mulch out of the way on the big ones so you can see what you are doing anyway. Might as well charge more and haul it away.

So what's the answer? Maybe a lower square inch price with a minimum of $80?

Are you saying $600 for a 7' stump is excessive? I guess it depends on your hourly rate and your expected travel time. But it's going to take 3-4 hours to grind and clean up (assuming its a leave mulch). At $125/hr thats still $500 and you need to build some travel time into that price.

 

[BC WetCoast]

I understand the difference in linear inch & cubic inch and how the stump grows exponentially as the diameter increases. Originally I was pricing everything at $2/inch regardless of size which was way too low for bigger stumps.

As far as incidentals, I usually kick in extra as the job demands it. To reduce my machine (Vermeer 352) for a narrow gate, I usually kick in an extra $20. Excess distance, I figure in a little extra for fuel. I don't dig, haul or refill if I can help it. I do grade & dress the shavings, and blow off the sidewalks or porches if needed. That is usually figured as part of my $100/hour rate.

Our problem here is too many "beer money grinders".

I just bid a 56" pine stump w/6' of roots in each direction (probably about 17 linear feet of grinding area), inside a stone wall fence with one 35 1/2" cypress doorway. Money was not an issue with these people. This was one of 3 homes that these people own. One of them being on the beach on the Mexican coast. I told them that I'd do it for $400.00 which I thought was EXTREMELY cheap. Hubby sounded happy, & said that he'd call me as they were going out of town for a few days. I left feeling that I'd gotten the job, and that I probably should have bid more.

I get a call a week later from the wife who says that the guy that took the tree down could get her a grinder to do it for $100. I advised her that I couldn't do it for that, and I would be surprised that anyone else would do it that cheap. Even gave her the pitch about doing a thorough job, insurance, customer satisfaction, etc. Yesterday, I talked back with her, &, sure enough, the tree guy got her a grinder for $100. He did the job on Monday.

So you figured it would take you 4 hours. Unless this guy just took it down to 1/2" below grass level, how is he going to do it any faster? I don't know how anyone can make it on $25/hr.